West Backcountry WATER Planning...

[Ray Eklund]

I read some threads that speak of camping in the backcountry, but worried that they haven't enough water in their model of Airstream to last a few days, a week or ten days. Obviously, to me at least, there is a mental disconnect between "Full Hookups" and "NO Hookups" in the towed trailer community.

Airstream owners who started camping with a tent and whatever fit into the back of the car or pickup... learned the methods of water conservation. Our NUMBER ONE water use is for DRINKING water. It is not intuitive to many who believe camping off the grid does not have its risks. And, before you feel insulted that YOUR water shortage problems have been seriously examined, follow me with "my" experiences. Camped at a full service camp ground with potable water from a pump or faucet pouring out treated water... is NOT backcountry camping. It is a campsite without electricity.

Water Conservation off of the Grid:

(1) Water in your AS's water tank and extra containers for reserve should be handled and conserved as if your life depended upon it.

Your eyes roll into your forehead moment. AS owners camping off the Grid... already have learned that water is your #1 concern. Then food. Then fuel in your tow vehicle. Then colored lights hung around the trailer for the evening... etc. The "novice" feels most insulted and indignant towards advice that contradicts their unrealistic backcountry priorities. When you run out of fresh water... no matter how much food you have or time remaining on your camping schedule, hard choices will then be required. Abort the trip or drive to the nearest town for fresh water.

(2) Showers are your NUMBER ONE WATER WASTER.
(3) Washing dishes are your NUMBER TWO WATER WASTER.
(4) Pets are your NUMBER THREE WATER WASTER.
(5) Toilet flushes are your NUMBER FOUR WATER WASTER.

(6) Drinking water from your AS is the LEAST WATER CONSUMER.

Of course, already for many AS owners... the #2 to #5 are life or death uses. Well... for you, maybe. For those who actually do camp their AS in areas where survival is important and camp often in areas far from resources, there are easy solutions. These solutions need to be thinking outside the misdirection of your most valuable resource... WATER.

Showers. ONLY on the way out of an area should you even consider a shower. Even then, if you have a mechanical failure... this water is lost and the shower just a temporary relief. A face towel, water in a bowl and a towel conserve water. You are in the backcountry. Campers "shower". Hunting parties know exactly what I am saying.

Washing Dishes. Paper plates. Styrofoam plates. Disposable. Heat enough water for... the Campers Shower and to wash silverware. The container you wash the silverware, then gets tossed into the surrounding grass or under a bush. No need to fill your grey water tank with water that would do the environment a favor.

Pets. Dogs will drink if their water bowl is full or half full. We keep a five gallon jug of water just for our two Blue Heelers. Over night other "critters" will be in the water bowl, so have the water bowl off the ground during the evening. We keep water bottles in our hiking packs just for ourselves and have a small plastic bowl and the dog's water bottle, used conservatively, so not to throw away water when you offer too much to your pet.

Toilets. For those of you who think someone is peeking behind a tree or a road, or flying over to watch your bowel movements... get over it. We call it the shovel and hole toilet. It will NOT kill wildlife. Pollute the water supply. Smell up an area that is far from the closest cramped camping area. You are in a remote area. If you feel that you are leaving trash... then pack your toilet paper out. Throw it into your camp fire. These "mini latrines" can be scattered away from the trailer. A five gallon bucket with the bottom cut out and a toilet lid can be attached for comfort. Then you remove the bucket and fill the hole. If you like, I can photograph ours when my wife had a hip replacement... worked great and cheaper than those sold at the RV supply flimsy plastic option for three times the price.

You have cut your water needs by 50% and more if you begin to think about it. By priming your plumbing at home, it reduces about a gallon or two that it takes to fill the hot and cold water lines. The five gallon jugs can be tossed empty in a pile in your vehicle or put into the trailer when leaving your camping spot.

I have spent more time camped alone in the wilderness than at a camp site or a RV Park. My Dad worked for the Montana Forest Service and the cabin "provided" had no electricity, water or plumbing for the year we lived in the forest (1956). We did not die from drinking river water. The outhouse was not a big deal. Kerosene lanterns provided light, as well as candles.

I understand. You bought the trailer for the modern conveniences. Great. But, this is about water conservation. Not convenience. For "Rockdocking" backcountry camping... if you are not prepared... there ARE consequences. IF you have never tent camped, back packed to camp or been in a remote canvas hunter's camp before... it is a big change. A culture shock.

See this as a challenge. A survivalist from the city who can make it with limited resources. Try it. If it does not work, it does not change my advice to you. When you are out of water, out of food, out of gasoline... you are screwed. You and your family. Be safe. Travel smart. An October snow in the high country could change your life forever. So can your idea that the AS has an unlimited supply of water, propane and food. It just is not so.

[Ray Eklund]

There is no ONE correct technique for controlling water consumption. My idea of Rockdocking may vary considerably to most others. If you understand how we manage to cope in difficult situations, your backcountry AStreaming will evolve. You may have developed your system and I and other AS owners would like to hear how you keep your water supply fresh and use it wisely.

Two ways to improve your water quality. Since many remote areas depend on untreated ground water, we understand that water quality from town to town or Forest Service water can vary.

Suggestions:

When we hose our water before driving into the backcountry I use two water filters.

(1) RV Water Filer by Taste Pure which is sold in a 2 pack. Either Lowes or Walmart. Filters the water being added into your Fresh Water Tank.

(2) Moen faucet with inline Moen filter at kitchen sink. (We took the original, where the soldering failed and leaked and replaced it.) The Moen faucet we now use, replaced the oversized sledge hammer of a faucet. The replacement had filtered drinking water option, or non filtered water for other uses.

You can taste and tell the difference. I also use a brass inline on/off attachment with a short hose extension to add water to the fresh water tank. It makes shutting off the water supply to move the hose. I flush the interior water lines and run water through the hot and cold system, while forcing out any trapped air in the water lines. I then close the hot and cold valve drains. Ours are located in the rear storage compartment. I connect to the fresh water line and run water through the faucets.

When you have primed the system, the hot water tank is filled. I add about 5 gallons of water into the fresh water tank and manually run the water pump. If your water pump can draw water and "almost" shut down... you are well on your way.

Once you are traveling the water system will again need to be put under pressure with the water pump. Once you are at a site with a full fresh water tank, the air will eventually be run out of the system and the water pump is now shutting down under pressure. With the available water supply, I flush to remove the air from the faucets and shower heads. Once you shut these off, the water pump should be primed and the system can be pressurized without using water at your destination.

Whenever we leave the trailer for any period of time, even while we are in the trailer, we shut off the water pump. If... there is air in the system, you may return to hear your water pump running off of your battery power trying to pressurize the system with air still in the water lines.

I have exhausted my best water ideas. After 8 years our water has no mildew or foul taste from stagnant water in the lines. Every once in awhile, I will run "city chlorinated" water through the lines and travel with it until we are ready to get back into the camping area. Some AS owners can attached an air compressor to the water lines, with valves and faucets open to force as much water out to prevent freezing when stored outside. The water pump had to be done separately... so remember that.

All of this is common sense. Flushing your system and your tank when you start the year and finish the year... you are way ahead of most RV and trailer owners.

[Savage68]

Our recent trip to GTNP was also our shakedown cruise. We lucked out at Gros Ventre and got an electric site, but still had to deal with "dry camping", which meant we found out our rigs capabilities.
First, I learned that new water tanks are "aromatic" which reduced water usage due to nasty taste.
Our water lasted as long as the gray tank did, had to dump and refill on day four, which was right at the campground office.
Heater has just become a higher priority, it was cold in the am!
Also, campground nazi 's will bust you for leaving a coffee cup out!
Andersen hitch worked great, had to keep speed at or below 55 to prevent sway, especially when big rigs blow past.

[polarlyse]

Hey Savage, Glad you had a good trip. Flush that "NEW" water tank with a bit of bleach and a few gallons of water on your next drive home. Drain it when you get home and things should be much better. It might even take a couple of times to sanitize and remove the odors of newness. We carry a few gallons of water for drinking and ice making but really the tank water is not too bad and I do drink it sometimes. I too use the Anderson hitch. I find no sway and travel at speed limit, conditions permitting. The one and only time I had any noticeable sway was last month and I was experimenting with trailer tire pressure and had lowered it looking to soften the ride. Instead I induced a sway condition. I increased the tire pressure back to max and no more sway. This happened on the beginning of a 4k mile trip. I suggest that you carefully look at the tire pressure as the culprit. The amount that you tighten the chains may also be another place to look.

See ya on the road sometime.

[Ray Eklund]

Our end of Summer camping trip started south of Rawlins-Rock Springs, Wyoming. OIL and COAL country.

The geology in this area at the surface and subsurface is Cretaceous ocean, shallow ocean and brackish water / swamp sedimentary rocks. Imagine an ocean and what type of minerals are deposited in those sediments. Then the ocean recedes with the lifting of the continent during that time left calcium sulfate, salts and various other mineral deposits. For water the city or individuals sink wells to bring ground water up and processed for drinking.

To filter out every bit of mineral from the water is very expensive, so when you drink tap water in these areas... you can taste it. This is why many drink bottled water and need home filtering systems, water softners, etc. Cretaceous water is my LEAST FAVORITE drinking water.

Pepsi Cola in Kansas City, Missouri would take processed water from the city that drew the water out of the Missouri River. The Pepsi Cola bottler would then run this water through their filtering system BEFORE using it to bottle water OR soft drinks. If you saw what the huge water filters looked like after filtering... you would drink Vodka, Whiskey, Wine and Beer. Many home fish aquarium owners would find reasons to get this water for their fresh water fish. Sure kept the algae down for a long period of time.

OK. These are geological terms, but easily understood and we can generalize that Cretaceous sediments carry "foul flavor and excess mineral content".

The Rocky Mountains and the Appalachians have the luck that the sediments from these mountains and provide fresh water within buried "basins" (like a bath tub with water filtered within the sediments). These can be the purest, cleanest and best tasting natural water. Land derived sediments- terrestrial deposits.

I live in an area just east of the Rocky Mountain Front Range. The sediments had been eroded from the mountains to the west of us. Our well is 484 feet into a formation than is 800 to 1200 feet thick. The water is cold and better than any bottled water... I say WATER. It is slightly acidic, so we need to take it from 6.5PH to 7.0 +/-. I check it from time to time. Acid in copper pipes can eventually dissolve the interior of a copper pipe... so you also get copper in your drinking water. Also a water softener in the house water but NOT in our well access pump. I use the water directly out of the well, unprocessed and use a filter to remove any silt or sand before adding it into our fresh water tank.

Acidic water or not? Put some into a small glass and add baking soda. It will FIZZ if acidic.

By knowing some geology of where you are going, it is not a bad idea of understand the "source" of the water. Although you may not care one way or the other, we do filter our water going into the water tank and have a filter in our faucet at the sink.

Over the years of traveling, we know which Forest Service offices that have the best tasting water in the USA! Of course, this is only in the Rocky Mountain States. If you can get water from the Mississippian/Pennsylvanian limestones... excellent naturally soft sweet water. Water from Rocky Mountain gravel, Pleistocene gravel sources near fresh water sources and similar obvious observations for wonderful fresh water supplies to fill your water tank.

So... water in Gillette, Wyoming and many sources in the Southwest Wyoming area have lots of mineral content that taste... foul. Water quality varies from place to place, AS the geology changes. I can usually TASTE the rock Formation in my first sip of water. You will get good at it yourself. Take a sip. Have others with you take a sip. Foul? Maybe the next stop.

Although the mineralized water with sulfates will not hurt you... it is not a bad idea to get a good "Taste of the Rockies" on your mountain travels.

New Mexico has some wonderful well water. Montana, Idaho, Oregon, Washington... Please add your comments of the best water you have found on your travels. It is out there... you just have to know the source.

[PharmGeek]

Ray - late Cretaceous - that's OLD!! Must be nearly 6 maybe 7 thousand years old!!

I'll follow along reading from the more experienced boondocker/dry campers/rock dockers/etc as I look forward to doing it with my family and friends - right now I have only weekend dry camping plans in the next year and perhaps a racing weekend at barber motor sports park (haven't done it yet but have an interest) - no truly remote camping for me yet - but I find it intriguing

Carry on


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[terryV]

I have not been in a situation where I could not drive somewhere to get more fresh water. And unless the end of the world comes, I never intend to.

However, I have been on hunting trips in the Rockies where we did not wish to break camp in the boonies to dump the holding tanks, or get fresh water.

We camped along the Medicine Bow River, 16 miles south of the town of Medicine Bow, Wyoming, on a ranch run by a guy by the name of Jim Jones. Jim told us to dig a hole big enough to dump the holding tanks into, cover it with a piece of plywood, then cover that with the dirt that came out of the hole. (Make a notch on one edge for the sewer hose to go down through)

When the tanks were full, we would dump. When we were ready to head back home, we filled the hole back in, and saved the plywood for next year.

At that time I had a 30 gallon fresh water tank, and the guys wanted to shower now and then. So everyone had a 6 gallon water jug in their truck, and when they went into town, they filled their jug. Water problem solved.

[Ray Eklund]

terryV... the Flying J truck stop in Rawlins, Wyoming has "fresh Cretaceous water" for your water tank AND free dump. We have camped north of Medicine Bow, Wyoming for many years. The water from the service station in Medicine Bow was actually better than one could expect! Once you are in the Medicine Bow Mountains... Saratoga, Wyoming and south... water to take home with you.

The Appalachians have lots of coal and sulfides in some regions, West Virginia comes to mind. If you have "water tasted" Appalachian water, please make some comments to the best sources for filling the water tank.

Water worth bottling is from the Boner Ranch, north of Lusk, Wyoming. It is very cold, probably low 50'sF when it is 85F on the surface. It is a deep well in the Madison Limestone, as I was told. They drilled through Oligocene, Cretaceous, Jurassic, Triassic, Permian to the Mississippian. Why? I would have to ask the well service people, but this could be nearly 1,000 feet down. As PharmGeek said with a grin... thousands of years old. The water I am drinking at home is probably from the last Pleistocene glaciation and still slowly being recharged.

I am certain there are Hydrologists on this Forum. Maybe they can point out some regional "Finest Water in the Region" sources.

Another. Glenwood Springs, New Mexico Forest Service Office water. Excellent. Right in front of the building is the pump.

Reserve, New Mexico Forest Service Office water. On the north side driveway and under the tree. Excellent.

Worst water I have ever experienced coming from a well. About 35 miles north of Crawford, Nebraska is a outfitters group of cabins and small restaurant. It is on the way to the Hudson-Meng Bison kill, and also south of Toadstool Park to the southwest. Cretaceous from the Pierre Shale, warm, shallow well and... enough sulfates to cure you of most parasites.

Also, you Midwesterners... Sweet Springs, Missouri. Absolutely awful city water. Sweet...? They suckered us thirty years ago and I still remember the coffee... whew.

[mccrosti]

I spent ten years hiking the backcountry of Idaho. I was a field tester for a water filtration company as well as a tester for Hi Tech boot company before they were bought out. I can attest that a quart of hot water and a wash rag will make you feel as good as any shower. But a quart of safe cold water will keep you alive.
My airstream is the most luxurious thing I have ever camped in....if you can call it camping... I like it, don't get me wrong. But I've been out * there* where having a drink of water and a dry place to sleep was nirvana. To me, that was camping. Water conservation is incredibly important. Run out one time and it will make a believer out of you.


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[PharmGeek]

A bit if a tangent - but bottled water is nearly totally unregulated as I recall and there have been inquiries (FOI requests) looking into recalls of bottled water to date and some alarming stuff

But it may taste better than some of that jurrasic park pee sulfur water discussed in some parts of the country


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[rockus]

I agree with the advice here. I have done quite a bit of backpacking in the Appalachians and can definitely tell you that mccrosti is right- running out of water in the backcountry is a very helpless feeling, especially if the only solution is to hike miles in mountainous terrain with a forty pound pack to a water source. As far as the best tasting water I've ever found- it was at the end of that hike

The great thing about backpacking gear is that there are so many ways to treat water, so you can refill any time you find a natural water source- a spring, lake, even a mud puddle if you're truly desperate (I've never had to go that route, but it's not uncommon). These tools could be really useful in addition to Ray's advice in the original post if there is a water source near your campsite. If you're not familiar with them, just google "backpacking water treatment". There is an almost overwhelming variety of products out there, some good, others not so much. Amazon reviews can be really helpful here.

I was wondering if there are scaled-up versions of these systems that can be used to fill the water tanks on travel trailers in the backcountry? In other words, are there systems that would deliver treated water into your AS from say, a river or lake?

[polarlyse]

I've seen some hand held UV lights that can make a small amount of water safe. Something along the size of a liter bottle amount. I have also wondered about some way to do greater quantities. They do make small reverse osmosis systems but I don't know how they would adapt to RV usage. Something to think about and maybe some of our forum members have experience with them.

[perryg114]

A backpacking ceramic filter will allow you to filter water from a stream or lake etc. Maybe places out west where water does not exist, it won't be of help. Worst case is you can use iodine capsules or bleach to purify water. Also you can drink just about anything as long as you boil it for 5 mins. The key thing is finding a source of water. Most Airstream trailers made in the last 20 yrs have plenty of water but I would use bottled water to drink. You can get by without showers for few days.

Perry

[Ray Eklund]

I understand that you will think I take extraordinary risk for a cool drink of water... Some is just common sense if you have lived as far back in the woods as I did as a youth in the 1950's. My father worked for the Montana Forest Service. Out water supply was a bucket from the river. It was my job in the morning to fetch the bucket and bring back what ever remained in the bucket for a six year old carrying it. We all lived happily ever after... and even better when we had running water in Somers, Montana.

Somers had the wooden water tower of water pumped from somewhere, maybe the Flathead Lake... but is sure leaked a lot. Again, no problems.

Some of the backcountry back packers understand which water is good for drinking, and which is risky. It takes some experience and way too much for a trailer forum. But... running springs in the Rocky Mountains can be a wonderful experience for fresh water.

West of Kemmerer, Wyoming is a running spring of cold fresh water with hundreds of gallons a minute. Across from Fossil Butte National Monument where the fossil fish are quarried. Across from the monument is a Ranch and if it were not for the leased fossil fish quarries AND the wonderful Spring... there would be little Ranch to speak of.

Pacific Spring, Wyoming is south of South Pass and just northwest of Oregon Buttes. It is on most Atlas maps. This Spring produces hundreds of gallons a minute even after the Oregon Trail "emigrants" refreshed themselves with all the best tasting water coming from the ground could provide. It is on Private Property, but I have never had anyone say the owners chased them off. Not more than a 1/4 mile off the County Road.

Manitou Springs has a "fountain" along the sidewalk with spring water pouring out. It, and I forget what gas maybe Lithium, but bring a 6 gallon jug and fill it up. Something to experience.

Glacier National Park, Montana.... and up into Canada... the ice is safe.

Rain water off of your awning is soft water. Each droplet has dust or a small bit of harmless bacteria in it, but your body is covered with bacteria that you cannot see and is harmless.

There are so many options when you are... desperate. But if the water is moving... it is better than a puddle or still water inlets. Lots of parasites to consider.

Yes... I do not have to be told about some guy in New Delhi, India who died from drinking the water in the Ganges River... There are millions living in the jungles of Panama into the Amazon jungle that get along just fine... their systems have adjusted to their water sources. Spent a year in the Canal Zone as a 9 year old and a coconut supplies great refreshing "milk" if you have a rope and can push your way up and have a spare machete to whack off a nut or two. Off the tree, that is.

Our society is so ignorant about living off the Grid it is embarrassing when you find people who think nothing of drinking water out of the "kettles" along the rim of the Grand Canyon sandstone after a big rain. Good to bathe in as well.

... and I am not the survivalist from Montana. Just a grown up kid who was taught to make use of what is available when in need. Even the US Army provided tablets to chlorinate drinking water while on the move. Find yourself a free booklet from the Department of Agriculture about drinking water. All common sense.

When you get "downstream" from a town... then think twice about the water.

As kids we never gave it a second thought in Somers, Montana breaking a icy cycle off of the leaking water tower in the winter as a refreshing drink. I miss those days of innocence and not fearing what could be from what was not bad.

Be water wise on your off the grid trips using water for drinking and cooking that is with the trailer. Then jump into the river or lake for a washing and pull a bucket out for washing dishes. Stupid City Slicker should not be written on anyone's forehead. At the worst... ASK the locals. If they all look sick... go to the next town... and ASK.

[perryg114]

Just get you a ceramic water filter. I have one for backpacking and long day hikes. You can drink water filtered from a stream. You can also boil water for 5 minutes right from a stream. If there are no sources of water then you have a problem. Showers are optional. Dogs can drink from a stream. They snack from the cat box, fifi will be fine. You can live a long time on water, mac and cheese, and raman noodles.

Perry

[rmkrum]

Yup. Many trips as a Boy Scout and as a scout leader. Drank water from safe sources in the wild. Downstream from a town would not be a good idea.

Best water was from a natural spring supplying a WPA built snow shelter cabin in the center of the Golden Trout Wilderness. Cold, sweet and clean. No signs of civilization beyond contrails. Gods country for sure. Joy.


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[Lily&Me]

When we did our three weeks or so in 2013, roaming the Rocky Mountains, those more experienced with the rushing rivers we camped near said they were likely fine to drink from.....given the elevation.

We didn't, but did fill jugs for the dog and our solar showers, which were perfect for outdoor shampoos. Really helps stretch a tank of water.


Maggie

[perryg114]

As long as you are above where humans live and crap in the water then you are most likely safe.

Perry

[Gearheart]

Beaver also crap in the water. They spread giardia an intestinal disorder that you don't want to meet with. Pristine water notwithstanding, the journals of Lewis and Clark recount many cases of dysentery. Bad food or bad water, who's to say/ I'm betting bad water.
On a Boy Scout canoe trip in Algonquin Park we used a ceramic filter. The water was so crystal clear that you could still see bottom in 20 feet of water. After 2 days the filter was clogged and required a field strip and clean. I called the other leader and the boys over to see the 1/4" layer of green crud that had accumulated on the element. We were all amazed and glad the we didn't drink that pristine water without first filtering it.

[Thalweg]

As a hydrologist spacializing in surface water and water quality, I would urge caution in consuming untreated surface water. Giardia has been found in almost every surface water in North America, pretty much anywhere there are mammals. As I recall, beavers and muscrats are major carriers. So if you're in an area where there might be beavers or muscrat, I'd be cautious. Giardia isn't likely to kill you, but it'll make you miserable for a while.

As Perry said, a ceramic water filter will save your bacon. I have little experince with the portable UV treatments. Of coarse, in an emergency, I'd drink whatever I could find, and deal with the consequences later.

Here's a link that'll tell you more than you'll ever want to know about giardia:
http://water.epa.gov/action/advisori..._giardiaha.pdf