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Old 10-16-2018, 09:51 AM   #1
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Wrap Protector Hold Back Slightly Loose - Advise Sought

Just finished installing new rub rail insert. As I was re-attaching the wrap protectors, noticed the curb side center hold back (bracket) is slightly loose. The top of the bracket exhibits less than 1/8-inch of play (in / out) with no side to side play. The bottom of this bracket is solid. All the other hold backs are solid.

I suspect this condition warrants replacing the two upper rivets of the bracket. These rivet heads exhibit a center hole with a dab of Trempro to seal. The parts book does not call out which rivet is used to mount the hold backs. Any recommendations of rivet size and type to use in this application are appreciated. Thanks.

wayne
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Old 10-16-2018, 07:32 PM   #2
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Rock guard loose bracket

Hello!


Thanks for starting this thread. I have the same problem. I just finished sealing off the bottom rubrail with Trempro 635 and when I went to put the curbside rock guard back on I noticed about 1/4" play on the upper left and lower right rivets that hold the bracket to the skin of the trailer. I drilled them all out. What I see are 4 holes roughly 7/32". I am pretty certain there is no reinforcing member behind this bracket from the way the holes look. It seems as if the bracket and rock guard were slowly straining the rivets out of the skin. Going by the size of the holes I'd guess that 3/16" is the size to go with??? Can you tell what size holes are behind the bracket?



Anyone else care to pitch in with some advice? Besides the OP and myself, It would be much appreciated by all who come by with the same problem in the future too. Thank you!
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Old 10-16-2018, 07:44 PM   #3
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I suggest using the largest aluminum pop rivet possible to avoid further pullout of the mounting hole. I would also replace the black cushioning behind the bracket with Sikaflex 221 (aluminum gray) applied generously to the entire area that the bracket touches. Make sure to mask off the surrounding area because the Sikaflex can manage to get all over everything. Why the Sikaflex? It is not only a sealant, but also a flexible adhesive so, after it cures, the bracket will not just depend on the rivets to be held in place.

Tim
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Old 10-16-2018, 09:28 PM   #4
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wandering, those holes do look flared. So, no supporting rib behind the bracket? If so, these are just riveted to the skin.

Tim, agreed the SF221 is a great adhesive, do you think much would be left between the bracket and skin after re-riveting? Thinking the compressive force of the rivets would squeeze most of it out. Might consider 3M vhb tape here as well.

I will drill these out later this week to see what I can see.

wayne
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Old 10-16-2018, 09:43 PM   #5
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.... a supposition on my part, but I think that soft black stuff allowed the aluminum to expand into it and did not offer a solid backing for the rivet expand behind, it pulled pulled thru and dimpled out.

I would flatten around the hole as much as possible. Drill two more holes between the existing ones.
Use the proper diameter of this style rivet, and seal the area with a thin layer 3m 5200.
From Amazon
The 3M will hold just about anything...it will take 7days to cure, it does stay pliable.

Bob
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Old 10-16-2018, 10:34 PM   #6
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Or consider rivnuts, stainless steel fasteners and sealant to bed and cover.
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Old 10-17-2018, 07:18 PM   #7
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Three holes would help. The "rule of thumb" for extra rivets is no closer the three diameters. Since it is an external problem, I would consider a neat doubling plate under the existing fitting. Use all the rivets you need. Then do the same on the other side as it is probably a matter time before it exhibits the same. There should be plenty of room because the SS is pulling away from that area. The extra thickness afterward would help relieve the stress.
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Old 10-17-2018, 09:20 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by guskmg View Post
Three holes would help. The "rule of thumb" for extra rivets is no closer the three diameters. Since it is an external problem, I would consider a neat doubling plate under the existing fitting. Use all the rivets you need. Then do the same on the other side as it is probably a matter time before it exhibits the same. There should be plenty of room because the SS is pulling away from that area. The extra thickness afterward would help relieve the stress.
guskmg
External problem? Do you think this bracket is receiving more stress (in the pulling direction) then it should as compared to the other brackets?

Doubling plate? Flat bar stock between the bracket and skin? If yes, 1/8-inch thick?

Thanks!
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Old 10-18-2018, 09:25 AM   #9
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That soft aluminum will pull away again because the mount needs better support, especially from behind the sheet. Mr. Cross has an excellent solution. It is the easiest way to get the inner / back sheet support.

The next step is to spread the “loads” out. This is done by a larger (wider / higher) plate.

Here is a video explaining the “pop rivet” difference and install and shows how pieces of aluminum doubler works. https://youtu.be/rDwM3D0waLg

Check YouTube videos for “airframe doubler” and repair...
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Old 10-18-2018, 10:03 AM   #10
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I would also have a bit larger hole in the protective panel for the bolt, then use washers and a Nylock nut. Just run tight until there is minimal slack. This will allow some movement of the panel with minimal wear between the washers and panel.

To discuss cause/effect, here is what I think happened. The stresses on the Airstream protector is high when underway. I have seen our protective panels flex inward quite a bit. Then they vibrate. That is a LOT of stress and will cause metal fatigue and can shear rivets or pull them thru as happened in your case. This happened when my speed was over 60 MPH with a headwind. (You add/subtract the wind speed component for your actual “ground speed”). Once over 60MPH, wind pressure starts to compound rapidly... which is one reason fuel mileages tend to decrease over that speed.
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Old 10-18-2018, 03:17 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by eganwh View Post
wandering, those holes do look flared. So, no supporting rib behind the bracket? If so, these are just riveted to the skin.

Tim, agreed the SF221 is a great adhesive, do you think much would be left between the bracket and skin after re-riveting? Thinking the compressive force of the rivets would squeeze most of it out. Might consider 3M vhb tape here as well.

I will drill these out later this week to see what I can see.

wayne

Yes, the holes are slightly flared and I am trying to figure out how to straighten those. There is no supporting rib. It would be interetsing to hear what you find in terms of hole size when you drill the bracket out.

I came across another thread with someone who ran into problems with the very same bracket -
www.airforums.com/forums/f381/minor-crack-in-aluminum-best-way-to-fix-it-photos-attached-183780.html

I have ordered a bunch of 3/16 and 5/32 Olympic rivets. For now I plan to attach the bracket back with the larger rivets and seal with Trempro. I will also make the hole in the rock guard bigger as suggested.

In due course I'll find some aluminum sheets to patch the area. Would 3003 0.40 thick aluminum work?

It would make so much sense to either redesign this or reinforce the area at time of manufacture. Especially considering this has been a weak point for quite a number of years.

Thank you all for the invaluable help here!
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Old 10-18-2018, 03:53 PM   #12
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Larger flange I hope...?

"I have ordered a bunch of 3/16 and 5/32 Olympic rivets."

I wouldn't order the same flange size that failed, you should use the a larger flange to prevent pulling pulling thru again.
You won't find anything stronger than 5200 to secure the panel once riveted...plus it's a great sealant.👍

Bob
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Old 10-18-2018, 05:06 PM   #13
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Just last year, one of my or brackets popped a rivett, I was unaware and at it flapped in the wind it ripped a 4 inch hole in the skin. This is now part of my walk around, making sure the rivets are tight and present!
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Old 10-20-2018, 08:18 PM   #14
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Just last year, one of my or brackets popped a rivett, I was unaware and at it flapped in the wind it ripped a 4 inch hole in the skin. This is now part of my walk around, making sure the rivets are tight and present!

Ouch! Did you patch the tear?
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