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Old 09-25-2015, 10:16 AM   #1
59' Globester
 
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What size / length buck rivets needed?

Replacing side panels on my 1959 Globester. What size are they? 1/8"?

Looking at PDF on VTS website it appears that they are and that they should be 1.5 times head diameter. If panels are .032 x 2 then .064 thickness is combined material. O a Brazier 4-4 rivet should be use?

Also Clecos should be 1/8" and is the original Cleco brand the one to use?
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Old 09-25-2015, 12:56 PM   #2
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plus the "U" channel wall .040, so .104 thickness total with 1/4" long rivet?
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Old 09-25-2015, 04:03 PM   #3
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If you're going in the same holes you'll want to use 5/32" modified brazier head rivets, 1/4" long. The 5/32" Modified heads have same dimensions as 1/8" heads so they look the same. Drilling out the originals will change the hole shape so you'll want to drill clean 5/32" holes in the original holed and use that size rivet for good seal.
VTS has modified head rivets for sale.
Make sure you have a brazier head rivet set as well.
5/32 cleco's to match new holes.
Practice, takes a fraction of a second to set the rivet.
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Old 09-25-2015, 04:56 PM   #4
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The formula for rivet length is grip thickness + 1.5 D, so the length should be .338" if you use 5/32" rivets. That's a length of 5 (5/16ths).
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Old 09-25-2015, 11:15 PM   #5
59' Globester
 
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what if the panels I'm replacing are undrilled aluminum and are laying under topside? unless you mean the overlapping holes need drilled out for a better seal.
well that makes sense, just like roofing the overlap seal is the one to seal. I am replacing both side panels (8').
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Old 09-25-2015, 11:45 PM   #6
59' Globester
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiJoeSilver View Post
If you're going in the same holes you'll want to use 5/32" modified brazier head rivets, 1/4" long. The 5/32" Modified heads have same dimensions as 1/8" heads so they look the same. Drilling out the originals will change the hole shape so you'll want to drill clean 5/32" holes in the original holed and use that size rivet for good seal.
VTS has modified head rivets for sale.
Make sure you have a brazier head rivet set as well.
5/32 cleco's to match new holes.
Practice, takes a fraction of a second to set the rivet.
Thanks fir that info..soo many little details which are very important when replacing 8' panels.
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Old 09-26-2015, 12:12 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by twolanehwy View Post
what if the panels I'm replacing are undrilled aluminum and are laying under topside? unless you mean the overlapping holes need drilled out for a better seal.
well that makes sense, just like roofing the overlap seal is the one to seal. I am replacing both side panels (8').
If you're putting the new panels under the old ones, which you should be for lower side panels, use the holes in the old panels as guides for the new holes. I'd drill some at 1/8" first to get some initial cleco's on and making sure the holes line up well, then start with the 5/32" holes. Lots of cleco's, if you can don't skip holes. It's best to drill and cleco them all before riveting. Once you do the riveting can go pretty quick, make sure you hold the rivet set very perpindicular to the head to prevent moon dimples in the surrounding metal. Practice on scrap, as mentioned it takes a fraction of a second to set the soft aluminum rivets. You can adjust the air pressure on the compressor or gun if equipped to find a manageable working pressure so the slightest touch doesn't try to rivet through the other side of the trailer. Experiment a little.
The seal comes from the rivet fitting nice and tight into the hole. If the hole gets misshaped or on longed when drilling the 1/8" rivets out, it's less likely to get a good seal. By drilling up a size you'll get nice clean round holes for the rivet to go into. When you buck rivet, the shaft inside the hole also gets squeezed out (fattened) some making for a tight seal, if that makes sense. The tail flattens to hold the rivet in.
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Old 09-26-2015, 12:24 AM   #8
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For your use I'd go with 5/33"x 3/8" long. VTS sells them, it'll be good allowance for what you'll mostly be riveting, 2 sheets and a rib. Consider buying some 1/2" long and a rivet cutter, VTS sells, do you can cut them for when you'll be riveting through things like 3 sheets in corner overlaps, door trim, etc thicker areas. Then you can trim some to the desired length.
VTS also has a pretty good guide on their site you can download it's free and has good info. It's on the rivet page.
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Old 09-26-2015, 12:04 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by twolanehwy View Post
Replacing side panels on my 1959 Globester. What size are they? 1/8"?

Looking at PDF on VTS website it appears that they are and that they should be 1.5 times head diameter. If panels are .032 x 2 then .064 thickness is combined material. O a Brazier 4-4 rivet should be use?

Also Clecos should be 1/8" and is the original Cleco brand the one to use?
The original buck rivets were 1/8 inch which is a # 4.

The length used was # 6 or # 8.

The proper drill size is # 30.

Longer buck rivets are far better than those that are shorter than need be. If they are to long, just snip a little of the shank off. Whooppee, no biggie.

If your using Olympic rivets, use those with NO washers. The washers in time, solidify and then can crack,,,, Now you have a for sure water leak.

Adding a little Vulkem sealer to the back side of the Olympic rivet heads, makes a great seal, that when done correctly, it's impossible for them to leak.

Andy
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Old 09-26-2015, 09:07 PM   #10
59' Globester
 
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Thanks all, good info.
Yeah I plan on practicing on scrap metal first to get my tecnique /settings. I have a 3x Deutsch gun and adjustable pressure at the gun. It is a new (used) gun to me so definitely play for a while prior to panels.
I also have a friend "Bucking Buddy" who has a body shop so that will be good. He understands the concept better than some.
so a rivet cutter?, ok. I gotta put together another order for VTS.
I got a Torflex axle from Andy and it worked out nice.
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Old 09-27-2015, 05:46 AM   #11
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I bought the longest buck rivets they had at VTS and bought the tool to cut them to the needed length.. This worked out very well.
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Old 09-27-2015, 10:50 AM   #12
59' Globester
 
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1959 18' "Footer"
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Originally Posted by Dingo Girl View Post
I bought the longest buck rivets they had at VTS and bought the tool to cut them to the needed length.. This worked out very well.
Well that's interesting. I'd have thought that the rivet would get all sideways if too long.
Seems if you were bucking it would either go sideways or flatten out in a bigger way?
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Old 09-28-2015, 12:29 PM   #13
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She bought the long ones and then cut them shorter. Easy to do just wouldn't want to do it 100+ times. The rivet cutter snips them pretty easy though.
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