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rippie · 11-12-2013, 09:42 AM

Hi
I did a quick search, but didn't find a thread that addresses this, although it probably has been discussed. You know that stupid thing you do at the end of the work day that suggests you should have packed up to go 5 minutes ago? Well one of mine was pulling on a rivet from the inside that I thought I had sheared the head off of (not completely). It created a tear in the outer skin that is almost entirely covered buy the trim. But i would like to seal against leaks and prevent further migration of it. Was wondering if anyone had any suggestions?.
I am trying to figure out how to post a photo. Not the best photo, but it's bottom right side (if it attaches)

Inland RV Center, In · 11-12-2013, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rippie

Hi
I did a quick search, but didn't find a thread that addresses this, although it probably has been discussed. You know that stupid thing you do at the end of the work day that suggests you should have packed up to go 5 minutes ago? Well one of mine was pulling on a rivet from the inside that I thought I had sheared the head off of (not completely). It created a tear in the outer skin that is almost entirely covered buy the trim. But i would like to seal against leaks and prevent further migration of it. Was wondering if anyone had any suggestions?.
I am trying to figure out how to post a photo. Not the best photo, but it's bottom right side (if it attaches)

Cover the tear with Vulkem or Sikaflex and then install the rub rail over it.

Andy

Aerowood · 11-12-2013, 10:42 AM

What you have pictured is skin corrosion, it's like cancer and needs to be cut out or it will not stop. The rivet popped due to the corrosion between the skin and the structure underneath. You need open this area up. I'm guessing that this is at the rear of the trailer.

vinstream · 11-12-2013, 10:45 AM

Andy does not work with Aluminum and to simply cover it up in not the answer! Clearly any one who knows, at first glance, would suggest the entire panel needs replacement do to the fact it's clearly oxidized through (the crater looking holes) and in a very week state and that is why it tore. 2024-T3 was used because it does not tear. If your not going to replace the entire panel, I would urge you to drill a hole about the same size as a rivet hole, just ahead of the crack to prevent any further growth. This is a common trick used in this situation to relieve the stress and not allow the tear to grow.

rippie · 11-12-2013, 11:42 AM

Oh, It's open, my friend. Say it ain't so about replacement. There is definite corrosion from the constant dissimilar water baths through the rear trunk phenomenon. And the rivet holes are obviously the worst area due to the break in the material and also the closer contact there. I am afraid if replacing this panel is the proper fix, then consider me the control group. Is there no chemical or mechanical cleaning process that will remove this buildup? I thought I could just make new rivet holes. I have really been trying to avoid messing with Buck (Rivet, that is). My time and monetary budget are not allowing the rear lower panel replacement at this time. What about installing aluminum angle to replace the steel end bracket dissimilarity? Here's another, more dreadful look.

vinstream · 11-12-2013, 11:50 AM

Sure you can D A the oxidation off as best as you can but in your case you would go right through the Aluminum... Your idea's in the short term will work. But realize that is a structural part of the trailer! Think of standing on top of a beer can that is holding up your weight... now indent the side.... any questions?!

perryg114 · 11-12-2013, 12:09 PM

That back panel looks like toast to me. If it were not so bad you might be able to coat it with POR15 but there is not enough left of the aluminum to attach new rivets to. I expect you have a rotten floor in front of that area. It might be possible to splice a new piece on to replace the damaged area. I think you are at the first stages of rear end separation.

Perry

rippie · 11-12-2013, 12:27 PM

here's the dreadful look I promised.

Belegedhel · 11-12-2013, 12:47 PM

You're giving me flashbacks! Yep, my '73 looked just like that too. I ended up replacing the rear center panel because of the damage to it around the rivets (just like yours). I also found the aft ~3' of frame so rotten that it had to be replaced as well.

Don't get too freaked about the panel replacement. Fortunately, this is just a flat sheet, not a formed segment. The aluminum itself is well under under $100, especially if you can find a distributor locally. Yes, buying a compressor, and buck rivet gun can get expensive, but have a look on ebay and Yardstore.com and maybe you will get lucky.

good luck!

Belegedhel · 11-12-2013, 12:55 PM

And another note--I checked with the factory when I started replacing panels on my trailer, and Airstream started using 6061 T6 .032" in 1972. This should be good news, as it is a lot cheaper than 2024 T3 Alclad. I was able to find it locally in Houston for ~$75 for a 4x12 sheet.

good luck (and check your frame)!

rippie · 11-12-2013, 06:11 PM

It has been a day of mourning over this back panel. What about splicing another strip with a new rivet line or two above the trim. I know it is not Airstream code, but as stated before I am over my time and financial budgets. I really want things done right, but on this I hope to buy a little time.

And looking at Aero's thread I thought it was pictures of mine at first. You said this was caused from the galvanized sheet. Uh oh. I just replaced the badly rusted out crossmember here with galvanized. Me thinks this will not bode well. What should I do with 1) the splicing extra aluminum above trim on the back panel (some may call it gaudy, I choose 'custom') 2) the galvanized crossmember now directly below said problem caused by galvanized metal (can it be coated and stainless screws used?). Here's a new idea also-- what about replacing the steel end plate with angled aluminum?

rippie · 11-12-2013, 06:18 PM

And thanks for the info Belegedhel. I will eventually understand the info you gave. I know it has to do with quality/ gauge of the sheets. I am slowly catching onto the lingo. I just left Houston a year ago. Too bad, i would be glad to let you revisit your past sorrows with me. Ha! Ha! Go Texans!

Aviator · 11-12-2013, 07:26 PM

The numbers Belegedhel used are the codes for various aluminum alloys. 2024 Alclad is a very ridged aluminum used up through 70-71, Airstream then switched to a slightly different one identified as 6061. The .032" is the thickness of the aluminum sheet. My suggestion is that you head out to your local airport and asked one of the mechanics there where they get their aluminum for fixing airplanes. Chances are you will be able to find the 6061 from the same supplier.

My local supplier is Aircraft Spruce and Specialty and a 4'X6' sheet of 6061 T6 in .032" is $47. That should be large enough to fix the back in the correct manner. If you do it any other way, it will end up costing more in the long run.

perryg114 · 11-12-2013, 08:01 PM

What is the gray stuff that looks like deer moss where the floor hits the back of the trailer? Is that some sort of foam rubber to plug the holes in the floor?

Perry

rippie · 11-12-2013, 09:11 PM

Perry
That, my friend, is asphalt. You are looking through my floor rot (which you correctly guessed about) to the earth below. It's kind of an illusion.
I believe I may be crossing threads, but how did you put your drains in the channel? And, speaking of the channel, since there is corrosion on it is it no good anymore? I am still wondering if there is a chemical treatment and corrosion cleanup method.

Belegedhel · 11-12-2013, 09:24 PM

Rippie,

I considered putting a patch on instead of replacing the whole panel, too, but after gaining some confidence with panel replacement, it seemed like no big deal. Anyway, you can do this--its probably better than just adding rivets to the already corroded and brittle bottom edge of the original lower panel.

BUT, if you use a patch, the best way to do it is still going to be to do it with bucked rivets, meaning buying all the same tools. One critical thing, whether patching, or replacing the entire panel, is seal up the steel angle so that you don't get the galvanic corrosion between the angle and the skin.

Keep in mind it isn't really about making it perfect, (or to factory spec), but make your repair worth your time so that you don't find yourself going back into it again a year from now. In this case, the materials are cheap, the tools are more pricey, your time is whatever you can afford to put into it, but materials+tools+time=an investment in future time/grief savings.

good luck!

rippie · 11-12-2013, 10:14 PM

seal the angle? por 15, I suppose?

perryg114 · 11-13-2013, 06:05 AM

POR 15 will work to seal the angle. You could also make a new hold down plate out of stainless steel. It needs to be painted with something if it is made of something other than aluminum. Making it out of aluminum may have issues as well from a strength standpoint.

The channel can be used over even if it is corroded as long as it is superficial. This means no holes or cracks as a result of corrosion. To put drains in I used some stainless steel tubing with a flare on one end. You drill a hole so the tube fits through the channel and floor. Then you seal the flared end with something like parbond. You then seal any place water can get out of the channel so the water goes down the drain and not into your floor. The tube will drain water into the belly pan where it can get out and not rot the floor. I guess you could put rubber hoses on the ends of the tubes if you wanted to funnel it outside the belly pan. There are breaks in the channel where the curved sections meet the straight walls. I bridged this gap with a small U-shaped piece of aluminum. Seal all screw and bolt heads. I believe I coated the C-channel with POR15 in the back where there was lots of corrosion.

Here are some photos of what I did. I added extra supports for a 3 section rear floor. If you replace that rear panel, you can put in a single section floor and then rivet on the hold down plate.

Here is that bridge between the straight and curved channels and then some of the drains and rear end repair. I did not put drains in the rear but I did in the front. I was in a hurry on the rear and I did not get time to put drains in there.

Perry

Aerowood · 11-13-2013, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rippie

And, speaking of the channel, since there is corrosion on it is it no good anymore? I am still wondering if there is a chemical treatment and corrosion cleanup method.

There is really no chemical way of removing corrosion. The best way in my opinion is to bead blast it off with a fine media. Once the corrosion is removed, then make the determination as to replacing or repairing. If the "C" channel is beyond repair then just replace the corroded portion.

Even thought it may not look like it, replacing the panel is going to be easier and faster then trying to splice in a new piece on this particular panel. Same with the floorboard take it out up to the splice, you are most likely going to buy a full sheet anyhow.