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dmac · 02-14-2004, 10:30 PM

I have replaced panels on aircraft:

- Each rivit has a tiny dimple that allows you to start your drill centered on the head. You drill only through the head, down to the top of the skin. The rivit head then pops off. The stem of the rivit is pushed back through the hole, leaving the original hole undamaged.
- The new panel is fitted in place using carefully back-drilled pilot holes, with cleco's to hold it in place. Back-drill all the remaining holes. Note this requires access to the back side of the panel.
- Without rear access you can use the original sheet as a template for a new sheet. You need to be very carefull to center the drill bit exactly. You will get some rippling of the surface, no matter how careful you are.

On aircraft it is not acceptable to turn ribs into swiss cheese. On a trailer it may be okay.

I would seriously consider removing the interior to gain rear access. It also would allow you to use conventional rivits.

Ken J · 02-15-2004, 08:37 AM

Dan

Great post... I was talking to someone yesterday who does aircraft and they told me the same thing about drilling rivets - just drill deep enough, then use a punch to push the stem through the panel.

I've also thought about back drilling - I'll have cabinets out, so it would not be a big deal.

However I'm unclear about one thing, when you say back drill, I assume you mean only where the old sheet is not over the new sheet on the outside of the trailer, or are you meaning all of the rivit holes?

Also the same person that told me about the rivets also told me you can use a hole finder?

Ken J.

markdoane · 02-15-2004, 09:59 AM

Ken,

Another option for locating new holes over old hidden holes is a device called a 'strap duplicator'

dmac · 02-15-2004, 10:11 AM

Ken - I'm not sure what you mean by "the old sheet is not over the new sheet". Perhaps you are talking about where an adjacent sheet overlaps on top of the new sheet - which is the easy part because your template is right in front of you. For the rest I am suggesting that you:

- Completely remove the old sheet of aluminum by drilling the heads and punching the stems out, therefore not damaging the holes in the ribs
- Use the old sheet as a template to cut the new sheet
- Use the old sheet's rivit holes to locate and drill a few pilot holes
- Cleco the new sheet in place using the pilot holes
- Then back drill the rest of the rivit holes through the old rivit holes in the ribs so the new holes will match up exactly. Cleco as you go.
- Rivit it up using conventional rivits using your new exact holes.

Get help from an aircraft mechanic familiar with sheet metal repair - ask around at your local small airport. He will have the riviter, clecos, etc... along with knowledge on how to do this. The tolerance for error is small.

markdoane · 02-15-2004, 10:53 AM

Dan,

What do you mean by 'backdrilling'? If you mean drill from the inside, that's hard to do since all the rivets rows are on the ribs lines or inside the bottom channel. Can't get a straight shot at the hole because the holes are inside the legs of the channels. HELP!

And, BTW, I need a volunteer to help me buck rivets. Are you available, say mid-June?

Don
Just up the road in Minnetonka

74Argosy24MH · 02-15-2004, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Can't get a straight shot at the hole because the holes are inside the legs of the channels.

You need to get a motorhome. The ribs are like a 'Z' and you can get at the inside to buck. The bottom channel is still a problem though, one of those custom bucking bars.

John

Ken J · 02-15-2004, 12:25 PM

What shape are the ribs - seems like they were buck riveted to begin with, so you should be able to back drill at least the ribs.

When you say the tolarance for error is small, I think I understand that you need to make sure you don't make the rivet holes any bigger than you have to.

Ken J.

markdoane · 02-15-2004, 01:29 PM

The frame is 3/4" × 1 1/2" extruded channel. The ribs are nominally the same dimensions but are formed. The floor channel is a little deeper, maybe 1 1/2" × 1 1/2" × 1".

It's not a problem to buck the rivets back in, there are lots of offset bucking tools.

The problem is drilling straight holes from the back side without being able to get a straight shot at the hole. The legs of the channel interfere with the drill bit.

59toaster · 02-15-2004, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ken Johansen
Ahhhh, Brett

Your right - its a 59 Overlander International - although it does not have any Overlander badging on it. I just bought it last weekend to replace my 59 Traveler that I sold last June.

Really like the 50's trailers

Still have the Tradewind - that does not need any repair - we will keep the Tradewind until this one is fully restored, if thats what we decide to do with this one.

Ken J.

You sure that's a 59? The windows and Wheel wells are 58 style. Must have been one of the first off the line. Did you run the SN#?

That side pannel is the eaisest to replace. It's flat and it's the last peice they install at the factory. We figured out that the body is on the frame when that peice is installed. There are rivets through the belly pan into the ribs that are covered by the pannel. The lower rear curve should also be no big problem as it seems to be flat as well.

That first pannel into the end cap....that's a problem. That peice is convex. How bad are the creases.

I have drill out a few from the backside. It was the rivets installed before the side was installed. I's dificult and you end up ovaling the hole. I would avoid it.

Ken J · 02-15-2004, 07:29 PM

Don - yeah that looks like it would be tough to back drill. Oh well it was a nice idea.

Toaster - ooooooooops - see I still have my 59 on my brain really miss that trailer. You are correct - it is a 58. SN 7076 - which would make it fairly early 58...?

I figured it would not be too bad to replace that sheet and the same sheet on the other side - all other panels are OK.

I figure its not overly difficult, just time consuming.

Ken J.

greg176 · 07-01-2004, 10:02 AM

The way they pick up holes at work is to lay a sheet of lexan over the repair area then drilling through the lexan to the holes while holding it in place with clecos.Sometimes they cut the lexan into strips picking up two known holes first. The cost would be prohibitive on a large home repair but on a smaller one it may help.I will try to borrow a corner drill for my big project so I can back drill all holes.

Ken J · 07-01-2004, 10:15 AM

I see your planning to replace a couple of large panels - please be sure to keep up posted. Thanks

Ken

greg176 · 07-01-2004, 04:41 PM

Here are a few photos to show what I'm up against.

Ken J · 07-01-2004, 05:12 PM

Couple of thoughts - you might want to try to get behind and slowly work out photos #1, no 2 may come out with a suction cup (or could work from rear or combination of), #3 could hide lots with a stone guard, #4 rear door should not be hard to duplicate and #5 not sure what I'm looking at other than a lot of pitting which you could do a lot of polishing on and it would pass the 10 foot test.

Anyway, just a couple of ideas ......

Ken

greg176 · 07-01-2004, 08:35 PM

It's hard to show in pictures just how bad the panels are.The last photo is of the aft roof panel.It has a large area that is badly pitted.I will try this weekend to salvage that panel with the Nuvite F9.The lower panel aft of the door is badly stretched from years of abuse (same on curb side) and no ammount of pounding would ever make it flat.The front panel is badly corroded from the battery and a poor stone guard installation.As for the aft compartment I want to eliminate it that will be the easiest job of all.In the end I want to have a very clean looking trailer.
I ordered a 32' roll of aluminum from www.airpartsinc.com today.From that I will get the curb side panel, the front wrap around panel, the rear panel and enough left over to make a bunch of stringers.
The clock is ticking on this project.I really need to get the trailer closed up before the winter.

Over59 · 07-02-2004, 07:11 AM

Hey Mark. Great tool. Thanks

uwe · 07-02-2004, 10:17 AM

Greg,
I am with you on the panel replacement. It's easier to do now than later. The result will be well worth it.

Ken J · 07-02-2004, 12:33 PM

Greg - looking forward to watch your panel replacement - are you gonna use olympics or bucks?

I agree Uwe - panel replacement is best.

Ken

flyfshr · 07-02-2004, 02:07 PM

Hey Greg,
In your photo #1, as you are probably already aware, the International trim area with the wording and the two horizontal aluminmum pieces are not original equipment for your vintage of trailer. Is this one of the panels you're replacing? Maybe this is the reason you're placing it?

FF

greg176 · 07-02-2004, 04:40 PM

flyfsr
I am replacing that panel because it is badly stretched.I'll have to post a better photo, maybe with a straightedge along side to show the ripples.That is very interesting about the international trim.It is in poor condition and held on with pop rivets.I was reluctant to let it go but if it's not original why bother putting it back on.Thanks for heads up.