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Old 07-08-2009, 09:53 PM   #29
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AgPnut,

I bought an ATS model 2602 (3X) and it worked fine. It's a little cheaper ($100, vs $156), but it worked fine for me.

I bought all the other pieces separately. I didn't want the 3/32 and 3/16 clecos. If you buy the cheaper kit you will save $50. Buy lots of clecos with the savings.
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Old 07-08-2009, 09:58 PM   #30
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The inside ones are bucked due to clearence. Pop rivets stick out too far. They can be used on the inside since they stick into the frame.
Hoo boy, never thought of that, but you're right.

The bucked rivets are (were) flush on the inside of the door. Interference was the problem to begin with.

Looks like it's time to invest in a 3X rivet gun set, or talk the welder into dropping by with his...
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Old 04-09-2010, 10:35 PM   #31
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Anybody know anything about Cherry rivet guns? A buddy of mine has one and I will be getting it from him soon. I haven't seen it yet but I do know it is pnuematic. Not that it matters a lot as I don't even have an AS yet. But you can't have too many tools.
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Old 04-10-2010, 08:28 AM   #32
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Cherry rivets are a pulled rivet, stronger than pop rivets, but similar. The original ones had a knob on the end of the stem that engaged the special rivet puller. If the Cherry rivet gun you're getting is the special one for those knobbed rivets, I'm not sure it will pull the plain stems on pop or Olympic rivets.

Good luck.
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Old 04-10-2010, 08:28 AM   #33
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Looks like a useful tool.

YouTube - USED Cherry Max Rivet Gun G704B on sale at www.toolsez.com 562-653-9474
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Old 04-10-2010, 08:43 AM   #34
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More specific lo-cost recommendation_Pleez

No experience here except a cheap pull rivet gun from H.D....

I see 3 better ones mentioned-
1. Toolsez site has many 3x, I saw a mention of a used one for ~ $70. Which model should I ask for?
2. Aircraft Tool - ATS 2692A for $106. What specifically else would I want for doing size 5/32"?
3. Harbour Freight 3/16 Air Hydraulic Riveter for $40. Cheap enough but is it too cheap too work well?

For simple repair work which would be a better choice... door A, door B or door C?

Don't have a compressor yet either. Any recommended?

Sorry for showing such inexperience, but we all have to start somewhere.....

Steve
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Old 04-10-2010, 09:57 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Sav'h Steve View Post
No experience here except a cheap pull rivet gun from H.D....

I see 3 better ones mentioned-
1. Toolsez site has many 3x, I saw a mention of a used one for ~ $70. Which model should I ask for?
2. Aircraft Tool - ATS 2692A for $106. What specifically else would I want for doing size 5/32"?
3. Harbour Freight 3/16 Air Hydraulic Riveter for $40. Cheap enough but is it too cheap too work well?

For simple repair work which would be a better choice... door A, door B or door C?

Don't have a compressor yet either. Any recommended?

Sorry for showing such inexperience, but we all have to start somewhere.....

Steve
BE CAREFUL, there are rivet guns and there are rivet guns

The first one you mentioned, from Toolsez, is used for solid rivets. You do not "pull" these. It requires and air compressor and works like an air hammer, it beats on the front side of the rivet, while someone else holds a tool called a "bucking bar" on the backside of the rivet. The bucking bar is just a small piece of steel (or tungsten or whatever hard metal you have) that acts to back the rivet as it squashes down and seals the two pieces of aluminum together. These are the rivets that Airestream used to apply your EXTERNAL panels, before they installed any of the interior, because you need access to both sides of the work. These are stronger rivets, they are the ones that are used in the aircraft industry as structural rivets. I bought my setup from Toolsez and it included a 3x rivet gun, bucking bar, and several "die" or "bits" to handle a few different sizes of solid rivets, though on an Airstream the only ones you're really going to need are 1/8 and 5/32. It cost me something like $75 including shipping, a year and a half ago.

I'm not sure what the second on you're talking about is, but from the description it also sounds like a rivet gun for solid rivets.

But the third one you mention from HF, is designed for blind rivets (which means you only have access to one side of the work) like pop rivets (the rivets that Airstream used to apply the INTERIOR panels since they can't get to the backside of the work) or Olympic rivets. The tool pulls the mandrel from the front, which either collapses the rivet on the backside, or collapses independent legs on the backside, and pulls the two (or more) sheets of work together. The air-hydraulic HF tool works just fine for this and I have one that I've used fairly extensively doing thousands of interior rivets, but if you're only going to be doing a little bit of work, then you can also buy a hand rivet pulling tool at your local hardware store, or through Vintage Trailer Supply.

Hope that helps? And don't worry about inexperience, we ALL started where you are at some point.

Good luck!
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Old 04-10-2010, 10:00 AM   #36
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Steve

When I started my project I bought a shwack of stuff from Aircraft Spruce. Nothing particularly expensive. but I still use it now in aviation school. The compressor doesn't need to be so large, the gun will use less air "running" than say a small air drill. I use a Makita which I think is about 6 CFM and it will run the gun no problem; something like a porter cable pancake compressor would be a decent choice too as they are often on sale. Remember to buy some nice drill bits too, for 5/32" rivets you require #20 bits and for 1/8" rivets a #30 bit.

Hope that helps a bit.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f36/...n-49720-2.html
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Old 04-10-2010, 11:38 AM   #37
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Anybody know anything about Cherry rivet guns? A buddy of mine has one and I will be getting it from him soon. I haven't seen it yet but I do know it is pneumatic. Not that it matters a lot as I don't even have an AS yet. But you can't have too many tools.
The Rivet Puller you reference is call a "Cherry Max" puller. I have two of these in different sizes with the larger one capable of pulling 1/4" all steel "Maxibolts" which is a blind high shear rivet. They are designed to pull a rivet which are a blind, self plugging rivet with a locking collar to prevent the stem from vibrating out and adding to the overall shear strength of the rivet.

These rivets are not cheap, and I have never tried pulling a standard pop rivet. Cherrymax rivet stems are serrated to enable the puller's jaws to engage. More economical pullers are available as these pullers are quite expensive with the puller head sold separately.

I will have to give it a try to see this puller will pull a "pop rivet" today, as I have one here at home.

Kip
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Old 04-10-2010, 12:23 PM   #38
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Thanks guys for replying. I didn't have time to read your posts yet but will when I get back home. Just on the way to town now.

As you can tell I don't have knowledge about the different kinds and where to use what kind of rivet.

Is there a site or pdf that explains the differences?

I'll get it soon. Don't have that much of a need - just repairs 'n stuff. Don't plan on replacing any panels (I hope).'

Steve
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Old 04-10-2010, 06:59 PM   #39
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Thanks guys for replying. I didn't have time to read your posts yet but will when I get back home. Just on the way to town now.

As you can tell I don't have knowledge about the different kinds and where to use what kind of rivet.

Is there a site or pdf that explains the differences?

I'll get it soon. Don't have that much of a need - just repairs 'n stuff. Don't plan on replacing any panels (I hope).'

Steve
This site has multiple threads on it, just to a Search on rivets and rivet guns and you'll turn up tons of info.

But really, what you need to know has already been answered above. If you plan on doing any external panel replacement and you will have access to the inside (in other words, you've removed the inner skins), then you will need the 3x rivet gun and solid rivets. My setup from ToolSez has worked great for me so far. You can get the rivets from Aircraft Spruce or Airparts Inc or other places.

The interior panels are fastened with pop rivets. The hand-puller you already own will work on those, as will the air-hydraulic unit from Harbor Freight.

Please let us know if you have any other questions and good luck!

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Old 04-10-2010, 08:18 PM   #40
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I tried to pull a regular ole pop rivet (liked to never find one) and they will not pull with a Cherry Max puller.

Kip
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Old 04-11-2010, 08:58 AM   #41
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There might be two kinds of Cherry rivet pullers out there. The older Cherry rivets had a knob on the stem which engaged a special puller. The newer CherryMax rivets have a serrated stem and can be pulled with a pop rivet puller. CherryMax rivets are expensive, and are probably overkill for an Airstream.

CherryMax are a full-strength substitute for aircraft "AD" rivets. The solid rivets in our Airstream appear to be "A" rivets (no mark on the head), which are softer, not as strong, and much easier to set than the "AD" rivets (single dimple in the head) most commonly used in aircraft.

FAA has a pretty good discussion of solid (bucked) riveting principles in their Advisory Circular 43.13 (and whatever the current letter suffix is now). faa.gov will let you download it for free. Look for the sheet metal section of that publication, which covers almost all aspects of aircraft maintenance.
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Old 04-11-2010, 09:52 AM   #42
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. . . CherryMax are a full-strength substitute for aircraft "AD" rivets. The solid rivets in our Airstream appear to be "A" rivets (no mark on the head), which are softer, not as strong, and much easier to set than the "AD" rivets (single dimple in the head) most commonly used in aircraft.
. . .
Could you double check that? All the rivets in my '59 Ohio Tradewind are AD rivets.

It would be interesting if your '66 had soft rivets, and to know when the switchover happened.
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