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dznf0g · 01-27-2018, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGreatleys

I bet they didn't have access to the back side to buck rivets, did they? Cause if they did, that's what they would have done. There's a reason they don't construct new trailers with Olympics. Bucks are better if they're an option.

Of course bucked is better, depending upon skill, but insurance isn't going to pay for, and I don't want, the entire bedroom, vinyl ceiling, mouse fur, and interior panels removed. That's way more potential trouble than the potential of having to use captain tolley's to seal a few rivets.

TheGreatleys · 01-27-2018, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dznf0g

Of course bucked is better, depending upon skill, but insurance isn't going to pay for, and I don't want, the entire bedroom, vinyl ceiling, mouse fur, and interior panels removed. That's way more potential trouble than the potential of having to use captain tolley's to seal a few rivets.

Agreed that was probably the best call for a nonstructural repair with no access to the back side. My point was just regarding the original post's question about using olympics vs bucks.

And my trailer is a 74. Who knows how long those Olympics were in there or who put them in. But every single one leaked, and I drilled them all out and replaced them with wet bucked rivets.

dznf0g · 01-27-2018, 06:55 PM

And I've had a few loose, crooked, and ill fitting bucked rivets from original build. All could be sealed, rather than replaced. I think the real question is strength. I think that's why we see some double skinned structural panel repairs. I don't like that, and would struggle with the decisions surrounding that kind of panel repair.

Dingo Girl · 01-28-2018, 03:35 AM

Olympics are not for structural repair only patches & roof vents. This has been repeated many times on the VAP.
If they were as strong as bucked rivets Boeing would use them to put the planes together.

PeterH-350LE · 01-28-2018, 05:56 AM

no doubt bucked rivets are structurally stronger than olympics, but I question that they are more leak proof than properly installed olympic rivets. Those that have disassembled factory installed panels, may have noticed that in many cases NO sealer was used on the panel overlaps (see picture below), it was only smeared on the seam from the inside after assembly.
As I mentioned before, the use of washers with olympic rivets will cause them to leak after the washers disintegrate from the UV rays. The proper use of vulkem will last a lifetime-leakfree.
Most people hate to use vulkem, because its so hard and messy to work with, so the olympic rivets get the blame.

dznf0g · 01-28-2018, 06:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dingo Girl

Olympics are not for structural repair only patches & roof vents. This has been repeated many times on the VAP.
If they were as strong as bucked rivets Boeing would use them to put the planes together.

I would include upper end caps on that list. They have no ribs nor bows which are part of the structure. Lower end CAP panels probably contribute a little, but not a lot. At least they are double skinned, which is where a lot of the strength comes from.

dznf0g · 01-28-2018, 06:13 AM

On newer ASes, with much larger frames, and far fewer rivets, I think I might use Olympics on structural panels and double (at least) the number of rivets holding on the panel, rather than gutting the interior.

dznf0g · 01-28-2018, 06:13 AM

In OPs situation, I'd go bucked for sure.

rmkrum · 01-28-2018, 03:22 PM

Boeing is now using a two piece inside-out rivet with a retainer sleeve that is put on with a tool that grabs the rivet shank, pulls and squeezes the retainer, and pops the shank off. Looks weird, sounds like a giant pop rivet, and they put major structural part s together with them. Progress, and expensive tooling to gain speed...works every bit as good as a bucked rivet.

Dingo Girl · 01-30-2018, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmkrum

Boeing is now using a two piece inside-out rivet with a retainer sleeve that is put on with a tool that grabs the rivet shank, pulls and squeezes the retainer, and pops the shank off. Looks weird, sounds like a giant pop rivet, and they put major structural part s together with them. Progress, and expensive tooling to gain speed...works every bit as good as a bucked rivet.

Did not know that. Interesting.

dbj216 · 01-30-2018, 05:51 PM

I sure wish someone would tool up a blind "pop" rivet where the mandrel would break above the surface of the rivet head. Then we could shave them round.

A friend in Minnesota fixes pontoon boats. He has a "marine" pop rivet that completely encapsulates the mandrel on the inserted end so water can't get in. Kinda looks like a small .22 rife shell. But the mandrel still breaks inside the rivet, not above it.

No offense to Olympic rivets, but they were designed as a decorative rivet for assembling softer items than aluminum, maybe like luan. Their little legs help prevent crushing the material or pull throughs. The tri fold rivets aren't as strong as a pop rivet, which aren't as strong as a solid bucked rivet. At least that's what I read in a couple of rivet sites on the internet.

We Airstreamers use Olympic tri fold rivets because they save a ton of time. We just need a better alternative in my view.

David