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KEIZER · 07-29-2015, 04:37 PM

Check out this link:
MANUFACTURING ROAD CHIEFS - Bowlus Road ChiefBowlus Road Chief

It is a picture of their frame and also describes their types of aluminum used. I am also planning on using same materials for my trailer construction.

Once you see their design the 13 panel will not be an issue.
Gallery - Bowlus Road ChiefBowlus Road Chief

will you be using a motor driven roller bender or manual turning bender? I have a hydraulic one. Works ok though building a manual one. Your aluminum will hold its shape well and will bend easily.

This is what I am going to build shortly. This will arch your aluminum with no problem.
I have another project I may post with this weekends project so I can haul 24' beam on my 8' box truck.

https://gordsgarage.wordpress.com/ca...and-equipment/

Last Triumph · 07-30-2015, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KEIZER

Check out this link:
MANUFACTURING ROAD CHIEFS - Bowlus Road ChiefBowlus Road Chief

It is a picture of their frame and also describes their types of aluminum used. I am also planning on using same materials for my trailer construction.

Once you see their design the 13 panel will not be an issue.
Gallery - Bowlus Road ChiefBowlus Road Chief

will you be using a motor driven roller bender or manual turning bender? I have a hydraulic one. Works ok though building a manual one. Your aluminum will hold its shape well and will bend easily.

This is what I am going to build shortly. This will arch your aluminum with no problem.
I have another project I may post with this weekends project so I can haul 24' beam on my 8' box truck.

https://gordsgarage.wordpress.com/ca...and-equipment/

Thanks for that. I do like the 'boat cabin' design and 'front door'.

I'm currently looking at flush fitting brass rivits....

Also looking at stringers as the more I think about it, the more issues using box section creates, as the cost of Oly rivets is enormous compared to solid ones and I like the idea of bucking them all.

Z section for ribs I guess is fine, but how might one get section through a set of rollers to bend it - what would support the Z section correctly as it goes through them?

Or are other other suitable solid rivet friendly sections for ribs that allow interior panel mounting?

Aerowood · 07-30-2015, 04:56 PM

1050 is not a good choice as it is way to soft and dents extremely easy. Quit talking to coach builders and start talking to Aircraft Mechanics. the best alloy to use is .032 to .040 2024-T3 for the skins and 6061, 5052,or 3003 for the ribs. The ribs are either "C" or "Z" type construction depending on the year manufactured. The end caps do not have any frame support and the dome type design is entirely self supportive. Airstream, Silver Streak, and Curtis Wright all used the same type construction. The interior end caps are either segmented aluminum made from .032 2024-T3 or in later years fiberglass and ABS. Interior skins were also .032 2024-T3 in the earlier years.

Last Triumph · 07-30-2015, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerowood

1050 is not a good choice as it is way to soft and dents extremely easy. Quit talking to coach builders and start talking to Aircraft Mechanics. the best alloy to use is .032 to .040 2024-T3 for the skins and 6061, 5052,or 3003 for the ribs. The ribs are either "C" or "Z" type construction depending on the year manufactured. The end caps do not have any frame support and the dome type design is entirely self supportive. Airstream, Silver Streak, and Curtis Wright all used the same type construction. The interior end caps are either segmented aluminum made from .032 2024-T3 or in later years fiberglass and ABS. Interior skins were also .032 2024-T3 in the earlier years.

That's really helpful, thank you!

.040 2024-T3 sounds good

Is this stuff normally clad in 1050 to help with corrosion resistance?

Aerowood · 07-31-2015, 10:45 AM

You can get it either clad or bare the choice is yours. The clad is 1100. Clad will polish easier but the bare will polish up fine too.

Last Triumph · 07-31-2015, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerowood

You can get it either clad or bare the choice is yours. The clad is 1100. Clad will polish easier but the bare will polish up fine too.

I've checked and can get clad 2024 T3 locally for a reasonable price so that's good.

It's suggested that unclad makes it oxidise easily, so I guess clad is the way forwards - especially as in the UK it is generally cold and wet.

Would you go 32 or 40 thou? I'd rather not mix and match.

Rolling Z section in the garage at home looks tricky, so I was thinking of making my own Z section by joining two 1/16" angles back to back?

Unless there is a good method of getting Z section through the rollers successfully?

Aerowood · 07-31-2015, 12:16 PM

The choice is entirely yours on using .032 or .040, you also need to make a decision as to what size and type of rivets used to attach the skins to the frames, this will help decide skin thickness.

Angle is much easier to bend economical with hand tools or home fabricated tooling. So fabricating "C" or "Z" I s just a matter of personal choice. "Z" is easier to buck the rivets in but only by a small margin

A W Warn · 07-31-2015, 12:22 PM

When I was in Florida last winter I ran across a man from Canada who had custom built his own trailer. It was "somewhat" like a 50's 25' Airstream replica, but it did not have a curved belly wrap. It did have the overlapped front and rear dome panels. He used 2 axels because of the extra weight. I did a double take when I first saw it. It was skinned with stainless steel. I did not get any construction details. He said he built it as a hobby during the last several years before his retirement.

Last Triumph · 07-31-2015, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerowood

The choice is entirely yours on using .032 or .040, you also need to make a decision as to what size and type of rivets used to attach the skins to the frames, this will help decide skin thickness.

Angle is much easier to bend economical with hand tools or home fabricated tooling. So fabricating "C" or "Z" I s just a matter of personal choice. "Z" is easier to buck the rivets in but only by a small margin

Rivets I need to learn more about - perhaps you can educate me as to the best type to use?

In my mind I'm thinking domed solid/buck rivets to give this sort of appearance...

What would they be referred to as? Do they come in different diameters and lengths?

What would you recommend?

I know the thinner the skin, the easier it will be to bend and form, but at the same time, I don't want it too vulnerable or wavy, hence I'm leaning towards .040

I appreciate your input by the way.

Is there any reason to make the ribs any more than 1" deep - i.e the distance between inner and outer skins? What gap is there in an original?

Aerowood · 07-31-2015, 01:20 PM

Rivets, a big subject and also controversial in this forum as to type. Airstream used Brazier Head AN455AD4-xx. These rivets had a .312 diameter head with a .125 shank. These rivets have limited availability in diameter and length. A suitable replacement is the universal head MA20470AD5-xx. Which has a .312 head but a .156 shank they do however have a slightly rounder head. These rivets are widely available in diameter, length, and alloy. The most common alloys used in Airstream construction is the "A" rivet made from 1100 aluminum and quite soft with a very low shear number. The other is the AD rivet made from 2117 aluminum and has a high shear number.

The width of the frames was 1.5" on the early trailers and 1.75" on later models. The thicker the frame the more space for insulation and wiring.

Last Triumph · 07-31-2015, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerowood

Rivets, a big subject and also controversial in this forum as to type. Airstream used Brazier Head AN455AD4-xx. These rivets had a .312 diameter head with a .125 shank. These rivets have limited availability in diameter and length. A suitable replacement is the universal head MA20470AD5-xx. Which has a .312 head but a .156 shank they do however have a slightly rounder head. These rivets are widely available in diameter, length, and alloy. The most common alloys used in Airstream construction is the "A" rivet made from 1100 aluminum and quite soft with a very low shear number. The other is the AD rivet made from 2117 aluminum and has a high shear number.

The width of the frames was 1.5" on the early trailers and 1.75" on later models. The thicker the frame the more space for insulation and wiring.

Yet again you have been most helpful (have a full strength British ice cold Beer on me)

Absolute authenticity isn't massively important as I'll be adding my own personalised design elements as I go rather than creating a blueprint replica as such so the more commonly available type will be fine for my needs.

Which one would you recommend to go with .040" skin?

Out of interest - the cladded 2024 - how thick is the cladding and is there a risk of ugly break through with polishing over time, or is it plenty thick enough to withstand frequent machine polishing?

Sorry to bombard you with questions like this but the internet is only the wonderful resource it is with folk like you around.

Aerowood · 07-31-2015, 03:20 PM

I would personally use the .040. The Alclad is only a couple thou thick. I would not worry to much about polishing through as the base metal will give the same sheen. One of the biggest problems is getting the aluminum to hot which will leave a brown spot, and its permanent as it changes the temper of the base aluminum

Last Triumph · 07-31-2015, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerowood

I would personally use the .040. The Alclad is only a couple thou thick. I would not worry to much about polishing through as the base metal will give the same sheen. One of the biggest problems is getting the aluminum to hot which will leave a brown spot, and its permanent as it changes the temper of the base aluminum

Gotcha.

What rivets would you use with the .040 then?

Aerowood · 07-31-2015, 04:16 PM

MS20470AD5-x
X=the length of the river in 1/16th increments

I would also inquire into what's available in England as metric rivets my be more available

Last Triumph · 07-31-2015, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerowood

MS20470AD5-x
X=the length of the river in 1/16th increments

I would also inquire into what's available in England as metric rivets my be more available

Cheers - readily available in the UK....

Aircraft Rivets - Mil Spec MS, MS20470, MS20426, MS20455, MS20427, MS20435, MS20600 at Skycraft

7 items up from the bottom - packs of 100 rivets for £0.79 ($1.23)

Aerowood · 07-31-2015, 05:07 PM

You might check and see if the 5-4's and the 5-5's are available by weight, much cheaper if you can get a pound of each as these are the most common size you will use.

Aerowood · 07-31-2015, 05:15 PM

I used to just hate working on Airbus as they had their own metal and rivet specs and obtaining them France ate up a lot of time, but that was 25 years ago when their presence was still small, probably better now

Last Triumph · 08-01-2015, 04:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerowood

I used to just hate working on Airbus as they had their own metal and rivet specs and obtaining them France ate up a lot of time, but that was 25 years ago when their presence was still small, probably better now

My father was airframe certified in the RAF on all the V bombers and latterly working for DeHavilland on the Comet 4C.

A crucial decision in our family future was made shortly after he married my mother where he was offered a job at Boeing on the 747 project, but my mother didn't want to leave all her family behind to emigrate, so I ended up being born a Brit and growing up in the land of expensive gas and small capacity, low power engines... which for a drag racing hot rod'er has been a damn shame.

KEIZER · 08-10-2015, 06:53 PM

You mentioned utilizing brass rivets. Have you thought about galvanic corrosion? I admit it would look amazing. Interior possibly. Though exterior exposed to the weather extra care would be required. I would not leave this outside exposed to the elements year around. I would also ensure a quality wax or sealant would be used to lower galvanic corrosion. Hate to see such a beauty of craftsmanship deteriorate due to corrosion.