Newbie questions about a custom replica build

[Last Triumph]

I can see building a luxury one with all the modern conveniences in would be expensive, but I'm looking to do this on a low budget.

I can get the rolling chassis ready to go for circa $500 using a used existing trailer and adding my own custom sized outriggers and perimeter frame.

The interior would be very basic essentials - a bed, table sofa, fridge and sink with basic unheated water. No toilet, heater, A/C or other luxuries. I've just built a camper van / motor home conversion so am aware of the interior fit out costs which for what I want could be done for about $3k all in. Remember this will be very basic inside and be only a 14' long body.

So the only real unknowns are the cost of the ribs, stringers, sheet ally, bucket of rivets, special tools, insulation and sundries which I can't see costing the earth from what I've seen so far.

I can't see how I'd need to spend more than circa $10k on such a small compact and basic trailer , keeping in mind that from the floor down will cost next to nothing as used trailer chassis over here are peanuts.

What am I missing?

[Aerowood]

What did you have in mind for the interior appliances, water systems, insulation, holding thanks, electrical systems, and black waste? If all you are looking for is a place to sleep such as an aluminum tent it's possible for under 10k

[Last Triumph]

Originally Posted by Aerowood

What did you have in mind for the interior appliances, water systems, insulation, holding thanks, electrical systems, and black waste? If all you are looking for is a place to sleep such as an aluminum tent it's possible for under 10k

I can make the furniture myself for peanuts and small water tanks cost buttons, as does recycled 'plastic wool' insulation.

All I'd need is a fridge, gas hob, sink and tap.

What sort of cost would a reasonable condition Bambi or Wee-Wind cost over there these days? Something reasonably straight, but with maybe a tired interior needing a refit and mechanical refurb?

There are a few importers over this side but they are obviously making a living from it and I don't want to be paying wages for stuff I can do myself.

I'm up for buying an original if I can, but it;s down to buying blind from 5,000 miles away and getting it to a port and then shipping it could be as such expense if not more than the trailer itself?

[KEIZER]

Have you thought of a composting toilet? I know of some people who use the very expensive composting toilets while some just have built a nice shroud for a bucket. I have this book and you can also read online for free. I do not plan on having a black water tank. Where I am their a very few dump stations. The ones that are available cost $25+ for just a dump station. Some though not all campgrounds have dump stations also. Dumping gray water here is not as much of a concern. So composting toilet for me. Plus better for the environment.
The Humanure Handbook - Center of the Humanure Composting Universe

[KEIZER]

Originally Posted by Last Triumph

I can make the furniture myself for peanuts and small water tanks cost buttons, as does recycled 'plastic wool' insulation.

All I'd need is a fridge, gas hob, sink and tap.

What sort of cost would a reasonable condition Bambi or Wee-Wind cost over there these days? Something reasonably straight, but with maybe a tired interior needing a refit and mechanical refurb?

There are a few importers over this side but they are obviously making a living from it and I don't want to be paying wages for stuff I can do myself.

I'm up for buying an original if I can, but it;s down to buying blind from 5,000 miles away and getting it to a port and then shipping it could be as such expense if not more than the trailer itself?

I have looked at several trailers locally and in neighboring provinces. The 30 - 31 foot models of 1990 and before the lowest cost seams to be around 5K. These all need TLC on the frame and interior. Many have hidden issues. One I looked at even had 2X4 wooden beams bolted to the frame to hold it together. So inspect carefully. One Bambi form around 1970 went for $1000 up the road from me. Though the only usable part of it was the vin plate. The frame was completely gone and the aluminum skin was all corroded some place you could put your finger through as it was parked right next to a highway with heavy salting in the winter. Another small trailer I looked at was $13 000. The frame was ok, though the interior was completely ruined form rodents and raccoons which had gotten into the trailer through a broken roof top vent.

So trailers here are available at all ends of the spectrum. One buddy found one for dirt cheap less than $5000 and all he had to do was clean it up and was ready for camping. He spent like a day washing the interior then went camping.

Good luck hunting.

I am thinking about building though I am still hunting for the right one. I have till next spring to make my decision. Though received all the regulatory documents form the Government yesterday in concern to constructing your own.

[Last Triumph]

Originally Posted by KEIZER

I have looked at several trailers locally and in neighboring provinces. The 30 - 31 foot models of 1990 and before the lowest cost seams to be around 5K. These all need TLC on the frame and interior. Many have hidden issues. One I looked at even had 2X4 wooden beams bolted to the frame to hold it together. So inspect carefully. One Bambi form around 1970 went for $1000 up the road from me. Though the only usable part of it was the vin plate. The frame was completely gone and the aluminum skin was all corroded some place you could put your finger through as it was parked right next to a highway with heavy salting in the winter. Another small trailer I looked at was $13 000. The frame was ok, though the interior was completely ruined form rodents and raccoons which had gotten into the trailer through a broken roof top vent.

So trailers here are available at all ends of the spectrum. One buddy found one for dirt cheap less than $5000 and all he had to do was clean it up and was ready for camping. He spent like a day washing the interior then went camping.

Good luck hunting.

I am thinking about building though I am still hunting for the right one. I have till next spring to make my decision. Though received all the regulatory documents form the Government yesterday in concern to constructing your own.

It would seem that building my own is still the best bet to get exactly what I want, in the size I want and for the fun of actually building, which for me is the best part.

Here's a question - the stringers and ribs don't appear to go into the curved ends - what does the inner skin mount to - or is the window from the only anchor point for both skins other than the C channel at the bottom?

Anyone got any dimensions for the ribs and stringers - thickness of material, length of leg and flange etc?

[Panama Red]

Man I'm hoping you go through with this!!! Please document the build on here with lots of pictures...

-Red, just posting to track the thread more easily...

[mandolindave]

You asked " Here's a question - the stringers and ribs don't appear to go into the curved ends - what does the inner skin mount to - or is the window from the only anchor point for both skins other than the C channel at the bottom? "

I don't fully understand the question, and I hope not to insult your skills, or knowledge base.

Both the inner and outer skins are riveted to the ribs. ONE rivet goes through both. It takes two men at the factory, one inside, one outside the trailer. It's airplane construction technology called "monocoque". Airstream uses Olympic rivets. After the rivets are installed, they need to be "shaved ".

[Last Triumph]

Originally Posted by mandolindave

You asked " Here's a question - the stringers and ribs don't appear to go into the curved ends - what does the inner skin mount to - or is the window from the only anchor point for both skins other than the C channel at the bottom? "

I don't fully understand the question, and I hope not to insult your skills, or knowledge base.

Both the inner and outer skins are riveted to the ribs. ONE rivet goes through both. It takes two men at the factory, one inside, one outside the trailer. It's airplane construction technology called "monocoque". Airstream uses Olympic rivets. After the rivets are installed, they need to be "shaved ".

Sorry - I didn't explain myself very well.

I understand that the air stream is a double skin construction with an inner and outer skin riveted to ribs and stringers.

But using the below picture for reference....





On lots of restoration and build threads, I see the ribs and stringers don't go beyond the start of the nose or tail curves.

On a Wee Wind or similar 13 panel end piece, are there any ribs or stringers between the two skins on the 13 panel roof section or round the curved nose/tail?

I've just never seen on any picture out there any ribs / stringers round the nose on these fully curve ended units.

For example, is there a stringer behind each of those 13 panel sections?

Hope that makes sense?

[KEIZER]

I believe this picture of a frame may be of use to you.
The older units had the outer skin buck riveted together and placed on the chassis before the ribs were put in place.
Interior are common rivets. Olympian rivets are used on the exterior for repairs if you do not want to remove inner skin for buck riveting.
After being around the aviation industry I would not use Olympian rivets as you have to increase the hole size. Plus with buck riveting you get a visual inspection of the rivet.
Insure that when ordering the rivets you order the hard aluminum rivets and not the soft ones.

[KEIZER]

Unsure why picture did not load. Trying again.

[Last Triumph]

Originally Posted by KEIZER

Unsure why picture did not load. Trying again.

Thanks for the picture - I see what they've done on the later flat fronted designs, but what is behind the 13 panel nose and tailsections of the these?

Is there a stringer behind each one of those joins between the inner and outer panel?



If that outer skin was see-through, where would the ribs and stringers be in that nose section?

[Last Triumph]

Any clues anyone?

Are the ends double skinned?



If so, where are the ribs and stringers?

[KEIZER]

From the pictures I have seen their is a frame going up to the window then only a short frame going up the wall half way before the arch on both sides about half way between the window and side wall. ill do some digging and see if I can find a picture of inner skin removed. With the science between an arch you would not have to reinforce the skin as the weight would be evenly distributed across all connection points. Think of the nose or tail of the trailer like a geodesic dome. I have constructed Domes before and self supporting. That this the beauty of the round surface, weight or force is distributed.

[KEIZER]

The dark spots on the seams is just the weather proofing sealant, unsure if new or original.

As you can see their is no additional support for the domed structure.

[Last Triumph]

Originally Posted by KEIZER

The dark spots on the seams is just the weather proofing sealant, unsure if new or original.

As you can see their is no additional support for the domed structure.

That's really helpful, thank you.

I see that AS use .040 sheet. A couple of coach builders locally have suggested that is too thin and vulnerable and I'd be better using .048 or even 0.60 for a strong and more dent resistant skin.

Any thoughts?

[KEIZER]

The current AS do use a different alloy then in the past. The original AS used 2024 aircraft aluminum. I have heard Airstream used 6061 and 3003 aluminum on them after the 1980's. I can not confirm this though. I know the vintage units better than the new ones. AS is sacrificing quality over price. It is a shame. If you were to use the 2024 then .040 would be great. This is what current planes are using. Surely your trailer would not be subjected to the same stresses .
For a quality comparison AS sells their small units for approx $50K. Roadchief still utilizing 2024 Aluminum sells for over $100K. Not every one can afford a new AS. A lot less can afford a RoadChief.
Custom build is the way to go. I have several plans drawn up on how I want mine to look. Will be different for sure. I do like the concept of the RoadChief with the front entry door in the nose of the trailer. Makes for a more functional smaller space.

[Last Triumph]

Originally Posted by KEIZER

The current AS do use a different alloy then in the past. The original AS used 2024 aircraft aluminum. I have heard Airstream used 6061 and 3003 aluminum on them after the 1980's. I can not confirm this though. I know the vintage units better than the new ones. AS is sacrificing quality over price. It is a shame. If you were to use the 2024 then .040 would be great. This is what current planes are using. Surely your trailer would not be subjected to the same stresses .
For a quality comparison AS sells their small units for approx $50K. Roadchief still utilizing 2024 Aluminum sells for over $100K. Not every one can afford a new AS. A lot less can afford a RoadChief.
Custom build is the way to go. I have several plans drawn up on how I want mine to look. Will be different for sure. I do like the concept of the RoadChief with the front entry door in the nose of the trailer. Makes for a more functional smaller space.

I'm not familiar with the various grades - I was recommended to uses grade '1050' in 1.5mm

Does that sound reasonable?

[KEIZER]

Originally Posted by Last Triumph

I'm not familiar with the various grades - I was recommended to uses grade '1050' in 1.5mm

Does that sound reasonable?

This would be a .059 aluminum. 1050 is an almost pure aluminum. This being 99.5 Minimum pure aluminum. A few binders but not much strength capacity.
at this thickness, this material may work. I would check with a local trailer shop or aluminum distributive center and ask their thoughts.

I have only worked with 2024, 3003, 6061, and 5052 aluminum.

2024 is a more rigid aluminum with the ability to flex without fracture.

Will you be utilizing 1050 for the ribs also or only the skin? It does have a mirror finish.

[Last Triumph]

Originally Posted by KEIZER

This would be a .059 aluminum. 1050 is an almost pure aluminum. This being 99.5 Minimum pure aluminum. A few binders but not much strength capacity.
at this thickness, this material may work. I would check with a local trailer shop or aluminum distributive center and ask their thoughts.

I have only worked with 2024, 3003, 6061, and 5052 aluminum.

2024 is a more rigid aluminum with the ability to flex without fracture.

Will you be utilizing 1050 for the ribs also or only the skin? It does have a mirror finish.

My requirements from the skin are that I can form it easily over the ribs and stringers, it has a little bit of 'give' as I take the 13 panel 'finger ends' and bend them to the curves of the ribs once they've come round the corner from the nose and resists denting as much as possible. A polished finish is also desirable.

Other than that I'm not bothered.

The ribs.... no idea - whatever will bend through the rollers and stay bent?