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SilverHoot · 12-29-2010, 10:32 AM

I purchased solid rivets and set from VTS and am in need of more. Really would like to get them by this weekend if possible( my bucker is only able on weekends) but VTS is closed for the holidays. So can I buy the same rivets elsewhere if so where? I've looked at Hanson Rivet and Aircraft Tool Supply but am unsure what to purchase and/or will my rivet set work. Did a search here on the forums and see that military specification rivets are used by some, in particular I found MS-20470AD5-x. The X designates the length. Not sure if my set will work with this though. Maybe I need to order rivet and a new set to insure they match?

utee94 · 12-29-2010, 10:36 AM

I used the AD 5-4, 5-5, and 5-6 on mine, depending on the thicknesses and number of sheets I was riveting through. I believe those are 5/32, so you need a 5/32 rivet set to drive them properly.

1/4 lb of each is more than enough for just about anything (I think I actually only ordered 1/8 lb of the -6). Aircraft Spruce or Airparts Inc. will have them, can't comment on whether they are open or closed through the holidays though.

Good luck!
-Marcus

utee94 · 12-29-2010, 10:45 AM

Here's a pretty good thread with a lot of interesting info, pay particular attention to the responses from Aerowood.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f381...ize-38764.html

I'm assuming these are for the exterior of your Airstream since you're using solid rivets. It gets a bit confusing because Airstream originally used 1/8" diameter rivets for those exterior fasteners, but they were an old style called "brazier head" which isn't readily available anymore. The 5/32" diameter "universal head" is the closest replacement as far as appearance goes, so it is what many Airstreamers use. It's obviously a wider diameter shank, so the holes will likely need to be drilled out to the proper diameter before riveting.

If you are already using 5/32" diameter solid rivets, then there should be no problem ordering more from Airparts or Aircraft Spruce.

-Marcus

Inland RV Center, In · 12-29-2010, 11:11 AM

Airstream trailers are built with 1/8 inch diameter brazier head buck rivets, using various lengths, depending on the exact application.

A 5/32 inch diameter brazier head buck rivet, will have a larger head, since it requires a different size rivet set.

Andy 10.9

SilverHoot · 12-29-2010, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by utee94

Here's a pretty good thread with a lot of interesting info, pay particular attention to the responses from Aerowood.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f381...ize-38764.html

I'm assuming these are for the exterior of your Airstream since you're using solid rivets. It gets a bit confusing because Airstream originally used 1/8" diameter rivets for those exterior fasteners, but they were an old style called "brazier head" which isn't readily available anymore. The 5/32" diameter "universal head" is the closest replacement as far as appearance goes, so it is what many Airstreamers use. It's obviously a wider diameter shank, so the holes will likely need to be drilled out to the proper diameter before riveting.

If you are already using 5/32" diameter solid rivets, then there should be no problem ordering more from Airparts or Aircraft Spruce.

-Marcus

Marcus,

Thank you that is the thread that I got that part number (thank you Aerowood)

Here's a link from Hanson. They list brazier head, modified brazier head and universal. Still confused, I guess.

http://www.hansonrivet.com/pdf2008/D6-D7.pdf

utee94 · 12-30-2010, 07:19 AM

I believe there's some analysis on one of the various rivet threads, which compares the apearance of the universal versus modified brazier head, but I don't recall the conclusions. You could definitely search for it.

I went with the 5/32 universal AD rivets you listed above, and their appearance looks very close to the original 1/8 brazier-head rivets. I'm pleased with the outcome. Others have done the same and also been pleased. But of course, it's certainly up to you.

Good luck!
-Marcus

SilverHoot · 12-30-2010, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by utee94

I believe there's some analysis on one of the various rivet threads, which compares the apearance of the universal versus modified brazier head, but I don't recall the conclusions. You could definitely search for it.

I went with the 5/32 universal AD rivets you listed above, and their appearance looks very close to the original 1/8 brazier-head rivets. I'm pleased with the outcome. Others have done the same and also been pleased. But of course, it's certainly up to you.

Good luck!
-Marcus

Marcus,

I went ahead and ordered the the universal head in both -4 and -5 also purchased the set because after looking at the description on VTS site for the set that I have, I believe it would not have worked for the universal heads. I purchased all from Aircraft Tool Supply Company.

Aerowood · 12-30-2010, 08:39 AM

The rivets sold by VTS are AN456A-5-4 & -6, they are a Modified Brazier Head which has a .312 diameter head but a 5/32" shank. The original rivets used by Airstream is an AN455A-4-X or an AN455AD-4-X which is a Brazier Head and has a .312 diameter head and a 1/8" shank. The rivets I'm using along with other members is an AN470A or AD -5-X which is a Universal Head which has a .312 diameter head and a 5/32" shank but also has a thicker head profile or a smaller radius of the shaped head. These rivets are what is currently used in the aviation industry and are available in a hugh variaty of sizes and alloys. The Brazier head rivets are no longer used in aviation, and sizes and alloys is limited.

An AN455A-4-X and an AN456A-5-X will use the same rivet set but an AN470A-5-X will require a 470-5 rivet set

SilverHoot · 12-30-2010, 09:17 AM

Thanks Kip,

Here's what I ordered:

----------------------------------------------------------------------
PART NUMBER DESCRIPTION QTY PRICE TOTAL
----------------------------------------------------------------------
MS20470-4-4 UNIVERSAL HEAD ALUMINUM RIVETS (MS20470AD-4-4)
MS20470-6-5 UNIVERSAL HEAD ALUMINUM RIVETS (MS20470AD-6-5)
470-3-5/32 RIVET SET
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Aerowood · 12-30-2010, 11:14 AM

Just a note here. The rivets you ordered are an AD which is 2117-T3 and are much harder then the rivets you ordred from VTS which are 1100 aluminum and dead soft. The AD's will be harder to buck. Just for your infomation only. there is a alloy inbetween the A's and AD's and it is a "B" rivet which is 5052 aluminum

SilverHoot · 12-30-2010, 11:23 AM

Darn, I already ordered and don't see that Airparts has the B's listed in the catalogue that I have.. My wife is my bucker and she already complains doing the soft ones!

SilverHoot · 01-03-2011, 06:59 PM

I didn't notice and neither did anybody else when I cut and pasted what I had ordered from Aircraft Tool Supply. Got the set that I needed but the wrong rivets. 1/4 lb too small of diameter got 4-4 should have been 5-4 and 1/4 lb too large of diameter, got 6-5 should have been 5-5. I must have blundered and accidentally ordered the wrong ones.

SilverHoot · 01-08-2011, 12:29 PM

Forgot it on previous post. Not sure what is going on but post that I though I had deleted reappeared and is now gone again. Here's the what was written : Well I got the right rivets. One thing that I did not count on was the numbers and letters that are stamped into the heads. Would rather them to have been plain or with the dot in the center. The letters in case not legible in the photo are: 01DC and are on both sizes.

vinstream · 01-08-2011, 01:58 PM

Question:

A, AD, or B.... what seams to be the best all-around?

A=Easiest to use, weakest...

AD=Hardiest to use, strongest

B=Have not used but my be a great compromise?

Todd

SilverHoot · 01-08-2011, 04:08 PM

I haven't used the AD yet but to do it all over I'd probably opt for the B. Do they all come with the stamped numbers and letters?

Aerowood · 01-08-2011, 05:18 PM

I don'y know where you ordered them from but I have heard of these rivets before with the paragraph on them. I order all of my rivets from Genuine Aircraft Hardware and have never had this problem. As far as head markings go the "A" will not have any markings, the "B" will have a raised cross and the "AD" will have a dimple, A "D" will have a raised tit and a "DD" will have a raised Double Dash and a "T" will have a recesed circle.

SilverHoot · 01-08-2011, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerowood

I don'y know where you ordered them from but I have heard of these rivets before with the paragraph on them. I order all of my rivets from Genuine Aircraft Hardware and have never had this problem. As far as head markings go the "A" will not have any markings, the "B" will have a raised cross and the "AD" will have a dimple, A "D" will have a raised tit and a "DD" will have a raised Double Dash and a "T" will have a recesed circle.

Definitely should have checked with you first, I may bite the rivet and send them back and get some without the "paragraph" Should have checked with you first.

Thanks for the info!