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Old 12-28-2011, 07:53 AM   #1
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List of Outside Rivet Sizes

It all started while doing the VV and Stack Windows.
Now we got excited and decided to attack all the windows and to remove the bally pan to re-seal and re do the insulation. Not to mention the add on of a grey water tank.
So while removing the side windows we noticed that the hinges as well as the frame are a smaller size rivets.
And therefore the question if someone has a list of the size of rivets by location and the correct drill bit size also.
Thanks a lot!
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Old 12-28-2011, 08:20 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by VeggieBullet View Post
It all started while doing the VV and Stack Windows.
Now we got excited and decided to attack all the windows and to remove the bally pan to re-seal and re do the insulation. Not to mention the add on of a grey water tank.
So while removing the side windows we noticed that the hinges as well as the frame are a smaller size rivets.
And therefore the question if someone has a list of the size of rivets by location and the correct drill bit size also.
Thanks a lot!
Outside rivet sizes are, pop rivets, 1/8" and 3/16".

Outside buck rivets are, 1/8", but smaller head size for the window hinge.

Drill bit sizes, #30, #21 and #11.

Those are for 1/8", 5/32" and 3/16" rivets.

Andy
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Old 04-20-2012, 10:56 PM   #3
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Smaller rivet head

The 1/8 shank rivets with the smaller csk head then norm are refered to as martin head or close tolerance rivets. I am lurking all over this site but as of yet do not own one looking to next year. The SS rivet squeezer mentioned else where will squeeze A or AD rivets however AD is limited to 1/8 unless your a really big boy :} which might allow you to do 5/32 rivets. Though in all cases your talking about a short rivet less then 3/8 GL. If any of you have questions on tools and metal work etc. I might be able to help I banged tin for 27 years total 23 years for the USAF as a 427x3, and then later as a 2a775 Structural Repair / Corrosion control specialist. Though from reading you seem to have a lot of folks who have exp here already.

Cyberia
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Old 04-21-2012, 04:44 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In View Post
...Outside buck rivets are, 1/8", but smaller head size for the window hinge....
Andy, are you talking about the hinge rivets on the window or on the shell? I've been repairing my double pane windows and the rivets on the window drill out with a #40, which tells me they are 3/32". The rivets on the shell side of the hinge are 1/8", but I hadn't noticed that the heads are smaller.

Cyberia, I'd like to know more. My understanding is that the 1/8" rivets used in the 70s were brazier head, which is larger than the universal head of today. Are these close tolerance rivets a smaller version of the brazier type or even smaller than the universal head?

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Old 04-21-2012, 09:05 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Cyberia19901 View Post
The 1/8 shank rivets with the smaller csk head then norm are refered to as martin head or close tolerance rivets.

Cyberia
Welcome to the forums. Correct me if this is not what you were referring to Cyberia, but the P/N for the reduced head (csk) countersunk rivets is NAS1097(AD)4-XX. The reason for the smaller countersink is to use a larger diameter rivet in thin skin. The smaller countersink (in theory) prevents knife edging the countersink preventing stress cracking from the knife edge of the countersink. Remember the Aloha convertible B-737
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Old 04-21-2012, 09:39 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by VeggieBullet View Post
It all started while doing the VV and Stack Windows.
Now we got excited and decided to attack all the windows and to remove the bally pan to re-seal and re do the insulation. Not to mention the add on of a grey water tank.
So while removing the side windows we noticed that the hinges as well as the frame are a smaller size rivets.
And therefore the question if someone has a list of the size of rivets by location and the correct drill bit size also.
Thanks a lot!
Basically almost all of the exterior solid rivets are 1/8 inch in diameter. the skin to internal structure are AN455A or AD4-XX rivets. These rivets have a 1/8 diameter shank and a 5/16 diameter head. As these rivets are only available in limited sizes and no longer used in aviation they have limited availability and replaced by the more available MS20470 universal rivets. In order to maintain the 5/16 diameter head size then the diameter has to be stepped up to 5/32.

The rivets sometimes used on the window hinge are MS20470A4-X and these are also 1/8 diameter, but have a smaller diameter head then the AN455's in the same diameter

Check out the rivet section of AC43.13 chapter 4 for more info
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Old 04-21-2012, 09:45 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by VeggieBullet View Post
...So while removing the side windows we noticed that the hinges as well as the frame are a smaller size rivets....
OK, I admit to being mystified. I just went out and looked the drip rail/hinges on my 72 Overlander and 77 Safari side windows. There are no countersunk rivets (duh on me for not recognizing what csk meant) and of the 26 or so rivets in those rails, only six of them appear to have a smaller heads. Why there are a mix of rivets is also a new puzzle for me.

What in the heck are you guys talking about?

Zep
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Old 04-21-2012, 09:58 AM   #8
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Why there are a mix of rivets is also a new puzzle for me.

What in the heck are you guys talking about?

Zep
I thought this was going to be confusing, There are no countersunk rivets holding the hinge to the window, I was just clarifying the part number for the reduced head rivets.

What I have run across removing my window frames from the trailer is that Airstream used the smaller rivets to attach the hinge to the frame before riveting the frame to the trailer exterior. When I had mine all apart I replaced them all with -5 rivets that went through the the whole shebang.

I guess we are talking about two different window frame here, the frame that is riveted to the trailer and the frame that wraps the glass.
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Old 04-21-2012, 10:39 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Aerowood View Post
I thought this was going to be confusing, There are no countersunk rivets holding the hinge to the window, I was just clarifying the part number for the reduced head rivets.

What I have run across removing my window frames from the trailer is that Airstream used the smaller rivets to attach the hinge to the frame before riveting the frame to the trailer exterior. When I had mine all apart I replaced them all with -5 rivets that went through the the whole shebang.

I guess we are talking about two different window frame here, the frame that is riveted to the trailer and the frame that wraps the glass.
The metal frame surrounding the glass is called a "sash".

The metal part riveted to the shell, is indeed a "frame".

Andy
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Old 04-21-2012, 11:33 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In View Post
Outside rivet sizes are, pop rivets, 1/8" and 3/16".

Outside buck rivets are, 1/8", but smaller head size for the window hinge.

Drill bit sizes, #30, #21 and #11.

Those are for 1/8", 5/32" and 3/16" rivets.

Andy
Andy,
Are these rivet sizes good for all Airstreams? If so, do you sell a kit containing a little bit of everything? I saw something like I'm describing at the Florida Airstream Rally in February, and now wish I had purchased it.
My bottom support for my Zip-Dee awning has two bolts on one side, and a rivet on the other side. Of course, the rivet had pulled loose. Is the rivet for the awning a certain size?
Thanks, Derek
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Old 04-21-2012, 12:35 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerowood View Post
...I guess we are talking about two different window frame here, the frame that is riveted to the trailer and the frame that wraps the glass.
The glass frame also does not have flush rivets. They are all #40 [brazier?].

Zep
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Old 04-22-2012, 05:27 PM   #12
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Hey Zep and all ,

Check this site its as close to my books and CDC's as you can get,
Aircraft Rivet Identification

Zep if you read through you will find this reference
3
3.4 Reduced Flush Head Rivets
NAS 1097 Aluminum &Monel RivetsBACR15CE Aluminum &Monel RivetsWhen the plate thickness could not contain the head of a rivet of the desired shank diameter, standard flush-head-rivet head sizes were reduced to produce a "shear" rivet,in order to increase joint shear strength in thin skins. These rivets sacrifice clamp-up(tension) strength for increased shear strength.

If someone has the money and is near By to delaware I have my study materials for structural repair from 25 years ago and another set a bit newer they have more info then the average metal working books you can buy off the shelf if you can even find one these days. Your welcome to get with me we can meet at the copy place of your choice and you can copy them or you can try to find a set somewhere for sale they are military issue but not secret etc .

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Old 04-22-2012, 07:28 PM   #13
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Smaller Head vs Diameter Rivet

Yes you are correct Aerowood,
Rivets of all styles pull throughs, cherry max, cherry lok, hi-shear, hi-lock, Hi tigue, Interference fit, jo-bolt, B100T, Huck etc etc all come in nominal shank, 1st over size shank, 2nd over size shank. In GL 1 through XX depending on the rivet.

Cyberia


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Welcome to the forums. Correct me if this is not what you were referring to Cyberia, but the P/N for the reduced head (csk) countersunk rivets is NAS1097(AD)4-XX. The reason for the smaller countersink is to use a larger diameter rivet in thin skin. The smaller countersink (in theory) prevents knife edging the countersink preventing stress cracking from the knife edge of the countersink. Remember the Aloha convertible B-737
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