Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 07-24-2009, 09:09 AM   #29
4 Rivet Member
 
Distantdrummer's Avatar
 
1975 31' Sovereign
Houston , Texas
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 494
Brett,
Fascinating report.
Sad, very sad though. I guess my $6500 guess was a bit south of reality. Wow.

Your statement only multiplies and sadly confirms my hypothesis that hail damage like yall had absolutely totals most vintage units. Assuming that most out here have nowhere near the in shop customization as the ones you highlighted.

What is a DWR Airstream?
Why cannot the Spartan Mansion compound sections be redone or replaced or remade?
Any pics forthcoming of the 40' railroad Airstream or the Spartan Mansion ?

Does the old skin come off in any reusable shape? Have you all found any use for it?
Brett do you think the new replacement skin is of the same quality and gauge as the older stuff?

Also it seems like badges (not stickers or decals) would be re-usable.

I must think that a few too many of these claims and insurance companies would stop insuring against hail damage altogether without a special rider which would cost alot extra. Either that or limit hail repair to a set amount, say $5000 dollars or so.

The damage that took place on your lot, was that covered by your insurance or the trailer owner?

thanks
__________________

__________________
__________________________
____ d'drummer ____

...aahh..rumm..pu..tum..tummm...
Distantdrummer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2009, 12:57 AM   #30
2 Rivet Member
Commercial Member
 
1967 17' Caravel
1979 28' Airstream Excella 28
Wheat Ridge , Colorado
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 87
Images: 15
d'drummer -

A DWR is a limited edition unit from Airstream built in a joint marketing campaign between the company and the Design Within Reach company.

The Spartan segments were stamped out on a machine with tooling which was probably scrapped sometime in 1956 after the styling of Spartans changed. We have looked into creating tooling for use with modern methods of forming aluminum. The tooling cost is about $9200 per segment. There are 10 different segment types. So we would have an investment of about $100k with a very narrow market from which to recover the costs...kind of like building replacement body parts for '53 International pickup trucks. The segments can be hand formed by taking 2024 T-6 Alclad sheeting, annealing it to remove the temper, hand forming it with mallets and an English wheel, and re-tempering it to T-6. The process would cost about $1800 for one segment. It is more cost effective to find a donor trailer and harvest parts off of it.

The skin that comes off of a damaged trailer is full of dents about the size of the end of your index finger which are stretched into the metal. Because the metal is stretched there is no way to shrink it back and still use it without painting it to hide the working marks. The aluminum that comes off trailers in this area probably ends up in Coors or Budweiser cans.

An option available to the owners of the damaged units is to use auto body repair methods and paint the trailer silver. This process produces a trailer that looks good but is not a classic aluminum Airstream appearance.

The new skin is the same alloy as the vintage product line. Pre-1969 trailers were built using a variety of tempers of this alloy. The newer trailers are all the same alloy and temper. A lower temper might result in more damage from smaller hail stones but the lower temper has to be used to in the stretch-forming process to make the segments.

The modern badges on an Airstream are very similar to those used in the auto industry and are a one-time use item.

The damage to customer units in our lot is covered by each owner's insurance policy. Our inventory units, depending on what we paid for them, are covered on our policy. The two less valuable ones will probably end up being used for extra storage on the property.

Hail is a much less common cause of loss than collisions, operator errors in backing up, and fire. The insurance companies figure it into their operating costs. Farmers usually have insurance on their crops for hail and other weather calamities and the insurers still make a profit. (It is the derivative markets for insuring bad loans they know little about that kicked their butts!) A hail storm, especially a strong one like this comes around this area about once every 15 to 20 years and is highly localized. This one covered an area of probably 20 square miles. The damage to buildings, fences, cars and trucks makes the RV damage a very small percentage. Looking at the SOBs in the neighboring storage lot (we work on these, too) the Airstreams fared better with no broken windows or tears in the aluminum.

Pictures of the Western Pacific Airstream can be seen on our Web site here: Timeless Travel Trailers 1962 Western Pacific
__________________

__________________
Brett Hall
Wheat Ridge (Denver) Colorado
http://www.TimelessTravelTrailers.com
Brett - TTT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2009, 04:09 PM   #31
Silver Sneaker
 
2006 16' Safari
Denver , Colorado
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 87
Possible replacement of damaged 16' Bambi Safari

Many thanks for the referral to Timeless Travel Trailers - they seem to be good people in case we can repair our 16' '06 Bambi Safari - and the suggestion to check also with Jackson Center, to whom we sent pics. We don't have the numbers yet, but it looks as though the Bambi might be totaled. The thing is, we liked the "wood" interior and would like to find another one like ours, but find mostly other models for sale. Would appreciate any tips on how often one comes on the market (we understand only about 70 were made of this model), how much one would cost, and where to look for them.
__________________
Elvie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2009, 05:27 PM   #32
Rivet Master
 
Gene's Avatar
 
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction , Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,842
Elvie, I hope that it won't be totalled. Perhaps the rarity of the model will give it an increased value. Maybe the factory can give you exact numbers on how many were made and you can show that to the insurance adjuster. Since there are so few of them, any valuation has to be based on a very small number (perhaps none) of sales of second hand ones. There may be cheaper and more expensive similar models that can create an average.

When there are a lot of claims for hail or other damage in an area, insurance companies bring in a lot of out of town adjusters who rush through the process. When the Denver area was hit by a much bigger hailstorm around 1990, our SUV was badly damaged. Our carrier had about 30 adjusters in one room out in Lakewood pushing people through the process and offering checks on the spot. A check in someone's hand convinces a lot of people to take a bad deal. I came in with an estimate I had already obtained from a shop and when the adjuster offered me about 1/2 as much and wouldn't budge, I just started talking louder and louder about how they were trying to rip me off, how their estimate was far too low, how I wouldn't accept a check on the spot, and so on. People started looking at me and things got kind of quiet. A manager rushed over to stop me and I ended up getting most of what I wanted. I didn't get everything fixed (who looks at the roof on an SUV anyway?) and used the difference as a down payment on a new pickup. Don't take the first offer and offer to help figure out a way to keep the trailer and get it fixed the way you want it.

Gene
__________________
Gene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2009, 07:25 PM   #33
Rivet Master
 
2003 25' Safari
Eden Prairie , Minnesota
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 765
Images: 3
The TTT estimate to repair my trailer is approaching my original purchase price when the trailer was new. It is unlikely that the insurance company will arrive at a value anywhere near that, so I expect my trailer to be totalled too.

Anyone have data on the value of what was a near mint 2003 25' Safari SS? It was stored in my airplane hanger, so was in very nice shape.
__________________
Dan
dmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2009, 02:30 AM   #34
2 Rivet Member
Commercial Member
 
1967 17' Caravel
1979 28' Airstream Excella 28
Wheat Ridge , Colorado
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 87
Images: 15
We have been writing insurance repair estimates for damage to Airstream products non-stop for nearly two full weeks following this storm. It is truly heartbreaking to see so many new and vintage trailers so badly hammered. In an insurance event of this size the companies send in “catastrophe teams”. These groups are formed of adjusters brought in from all over the country. Most of the losses were from damage to buildings. The next loss category was cars and trucks and then RVs and Boats. The adjusters are doing their best to get to all of their customers as quickly as possible. The people assigned to evaluate the losses to RVs are mostly auto loss adjusters. Few have much experience with RVs and very, very few with Airstream products. The companies and adjusters are not to blame. They are obligated to do two things: get the claims processed as quickly as possible; spend as little of the company’s money to make things as right as possible. Speed and accuracy don’t always go hand in hand.

We had one adjuster give us an estimate for repairs of $7000. He wrote up the repairs as if it were a car. He listed repairing the dents with filler and labor and materials for painting it. Obviously this in not how Airstreams are repaired; the adjuster just didn’t know. It is, however, is one method for repairing the hail damage but it will not return the Airstream to the condition it was in prior to the storm. It is a compromise position that could work for some people if they like their unit, don’t want to buy a different trailer and don’t care about it being painted. The appearance will be good but the value may not be as high in the end. They will get the full use of the vehicle for a good long time like any Airstream owner.

We follow the Airstream Parts and Labor Manual in our estimating so our pricing will be about the same as JC or a dealer with freight on factory parts making up much of the difference. Using the Airstream pricing to repair this trailer back to the condition prior to the storm will cost about $25,000. The market value of the trailer is somewhere between $18,000 and $27,000. The loss value is derived from the NADA or Kelly Blue Books AND any comparable recent sales and/or listings (Ebay, Craigslist, AirForums…) of similar units. Consideration can sometimes be given for new equipment such as a furnace, water heater, new tires and the like but you will need receipts for proof of value. With the combination of so much damage and so few adjusters knowledgeable in the unique characteristics of the Airstream, the owner may have to dig for the comparables to present to the insurance company. One of the comps for this unit was an Argosy. In this case the owner would do best to not take the initial insurance estimate, do her homework on comps (we’ll help), and negotiate a better settlement which reflects the true value of the trailer, take the check and buy a unit which is comparable in age and condition. Straightforward, business-like negotiations based on facts will get you everywhere. Getting emotional might get you out the door and at the end of the line for a special handler. The insurance companies rarely take into consideration any uniqueness of the vehicle unless it is reflected in the market value OR the owner took out a “stated value” policy.

A stated value policy will carry higher premiums but will cover the cost of replacing a truly unique vehicle. Many of our custom Airstream trailers leaving the plant have a stated value policy based on our invoice value. This is the case on a 1976 International which was setting outside our building the night of the storm, ready for pick-up the following morning. We had completely rebuilt the interior of the trailer: bamboo flooring; new shower stall, reclaimed teak on the lavatory walls, all new birch cabinetry, wrap-around front dinette/queen bed, premium lighting, new appliances including range, fridge, A/C, furnace, gas/electric water heater, microwave; reworked all duo-pane windows, refinished the liner, repaired chassis, reworked the electrical system, new LPG system, etc. With the exception of the exterior, which the owner wanted “weathered”, this is a new trailer. The damage to the skin was extensive. Every piece of aluminum except the lower curb-side side sheet and the panel behind the propane tanks will have to be replaced. The estimate is about $38,000 but far less than the custom rebuild invoice cost. This trailer will not be totaled but only because of the stated value insurance policy.

Once the company writes you a check they are finished with the deal. You can use the money however you wish. If you choose to travel in a shiny, aluminum golf ball…okay. If you choose to have the worst part of the damage repaired up to the total of the settlement…great. If you sell your coach to someone else and combine the sale proceeds with the settlement to but a boat…fine. If, however, you take the check, don’t repair the trailer and later want to file a claim for getting hit on the highway, you won’t be able to collect for that damage if it is in an area of the coach that was hit by the hail but not repaired. The same is true if the unit is totaled and you decide to buy it back at salvage value. If you insure it, and some states and companies allow a salvage titled vehicle to be insured, you had better have receipts showing the cost of the repairs or your claim may be denied or, worse, you could be facing an insurance fraud case. The insurers take a dim view on double dipping. The VIN number of any damaged vehicle and the extent of the damaged are entered into a national database for tracking purposes.

The cost of repair to Airstream skins is about 1/3 dismantling, 1/3 parts and 1/3 reassembly. New bodies go together in about two hours on the assembly line. The repairs take much more time. Again, if repairing anything other than late model or special interest vehicles were easy and cost effective, we would all be pulling our 1957 Airstream Bubbles with ’57 Chevy Belairs. The typical 95% turnover rate of the US auto and truck fleet is 14 years. That is; after 14 years, only 5% of any model will still be on the road. When you look at RVs other than Airstreams, a 14 year old unit is looking a little long of tooth and has little residual value. While we expect less than 30% of the Airstreams for which we have written insurance estimates will be repaired, the repair rate for the SOBs will be much lower because they are cheaper to replace.
__________________
Brett Hall
Wheat Ridge (Denver) Colorado
http://www.TimelessTravelTrailers.com
Brett - TTT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2009, 07:41 AM   #35
Rivet Master
 
centennialman's Avatar

 
2016 20' Flying Cloud
Centennial , Colorado
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,284
Brett.....great information and I am definitely learning from your posts. Thanks, very much, for the thorough information!!
__________________
Steve "Centennial Man"
centennialman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2009, 09:15 AM   #36
Rivet Master
 
Gene's Avatar
 
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction , Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,842
Brett: "Getting emotional might get you out the door and at the end of the line for a special handler." I agree. When I did my "performance" when I had a claim in 1990, I calculated what would work at the time. The adjuster was refusing to take into consideration anything I said and totally rejected the premises of the estimate I had. He had a take it leave it attitude, so I decided to act the aggrieved and create a problem. Don't call the adjuster names, if you are angry control it and put on an act. They wanted to give people checks and get rid of them and I was giving other claimants ideas, so they had shut me up and they gave me more money. A possibly unique situation and on another day it might not have worked.

Some companies promise that if the check isn't enough, they will pay for the difference over what they gave you. Don't accept that unless it is in writing and read it carefully.

Gene
__________________
Gene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2009, 04:20 PM   #37
Silver Sneaker
 
2006 16' Safari
Denver , Colorado
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 87
Working with the Insurance Co

Does any anyone have any comments about working with National Interstate?

They were recommended by Escapees, we are members and will ask them but am asking the forum.

No word on the estimates from AS.
__________________
Elvie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2009, 11:30 PM   #38
Rivet Master
 
Gene's Avatar
 
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction , Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,842
I think you are asking about Interstate in Colorado Springs. Comments I have heard vary a lot, though they average a lot better than Windish.

Gene
__________________
Gene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2009, 12:39 AM   #39
2 Rivet Member
 
2008 23' International CCD
golden , Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 74
Hmmm...I live at the north end of golden, about a 15 minute walk to downtown. I'm renting a house and my neighbors apparently don't like the airstream in the driveway and said something to the owners. I'm glad I have procrastinated because the closest outdoor RV storage places are the ones that were hit by the hail, and I didn't by gap insurance (to cover the difference between what I owe on the loan and current value).
__________________
1cericks1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2009, 09:27 AM   #40
Rivet Master
 
Gene's Avatar
 
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction , Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,842
There was a big hailstorm at the north end of Pueblo a week ago. This is the area where most of the car dealers are located and I heard they were hit badly. If you like a dimpled car, time to buy one.

Gene
__________________
Gene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2009, 10:07 AM   #41
The handy accountant
 
pageclot's Avatar
 
1976 27' Overlander
Scarborough , Ontario
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 165
Images: 21
A weather notice to fill me with fear

City of Toronto
10:27 AM EDT Tuesday 4 August 2009
Severe thunderstorm watch for
City of Toronto issued

Conditions are favourable for severe thunderstorms to develop this afternoon with damaging winds..Large hail and brief torrential downpours.

This is an alert to the potential development of severe thunderstorms with large hail and damaging winds.

Monitor weather conditions..Listen for updated statements. If threatening weather approaches take immediate safety precautions.
__________________
_____
Kevin and Leah
Accountants who tow sans regret
"I nostri cuori e le menti appartengono al flusso d'aria"
pageclot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2009, 10:52 AM   #42
Rivet Master
 
2003 25' Safari
Eden Prairie , Minnesota
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 765
Images: 3
I got official word that my trailer will be totalled. We are now working through the dollars... value of the insured trailer before damage, and price to buyback the "wreck".

If we don't buy it, we would probably go without a trailer for a long time, because I was out of work for 6 months, and have extra expenses due to relocation for work - paying for two houses plus one apartment, plus child in college...

From the preliminary numbers, I may buy the trailer. The exterior has hail dents, especially on the end caps. But it is fully functional, does not leak, and the interior is like new. I would need to replace the AC cover and a roof vent, but that's about all. I'd save some money because I won't need to park it indoors anymore... no more hail worries, it's pre-hailed! With the recent move to Colorado, we would use it to explore the mountains.
__________________

__________________
Dan
dmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hail Boondocker On The Road... 14 05-14-2008 08:16 AM
Hail x 2!! Auretrvr Off Topic Forum 12 04-05-2007 08:16 AM
All Hail the 63 FC dmaiden General Interior Topics 14 10-16-2006 10:04 PM
Hail, Hail and we're still here GreggH Off Topic Forum 10 04-09-2006 07:48 PM
Hail sovereignrwe Ribs, Skins & Rivets 9 07-06-2005 12:50 PM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:58 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.