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Old 12-11-2008, 07:34 PM   #15
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I've been reminded where the post was that I was referring to:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f36/...ion-35237.html

This was a great thread with some great info and conversations on the dreaded front end separation.

I was also reminded by that same person that Andy from Inland was even selling a plate for this on post #17 of the above linked thread. If you read that thread and find no fault from the factory at all, then I'm off to find a Lincoln Town Car as my new tow vehicle!
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Old 12-11-2008, 09:11 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie View Post
I've been reminded where the post was that I was referring to:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f36/...ion-35237.html

This was a great thread with some great info and conversations on the dreaded front end separation.

I was also reminded by that same person that Andy from Inland was even selling a plate for this on post #17 of the above linked thread. If you read that thread and find no fault from the factory at all, then I'm off to find a Lincoln Town Car as my new tow vehicle!
Silvertwinkie, perhaps our HD type trucks are the problem. That is why the video advertising the Hensley hitches demonstrates Lincolns, etc. pulling Airstreams. I will admit my F350 is a little stiff compared to some trucks, but my previous 2wd F250 was mushy without tension on the bars. I have not had any damage issues from my tow vehicle, and I REALLY like the sense of control I have pulling 4 tons with my truck. I hope we will see some more opinions on this topic.
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Old 12-11-2008, 09:26 PM   #17
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Hi Silvertwinkie,


A Cadillac 94-96 Fleetwood Brougham with the LT1 engine and tow package is suppose to tow up to 7k.

Has anyone used this car for a TV?
It would look super cool.

Lincoln's are nice too
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Old 12-12-2008, 12:01 AM   #18
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I have a 3/4 ton burb. I had orig 1200lb bars. To get any flex (for sway control) and leveling out of the rig, I had to go up to 6 to 7 links with those 1200lb bars.

So, taking your advice, I went to the 600lb bars and now only use 4 links. I still get the similar flexing of the bars. So are you saying to me that I'd be better off not having any bars or are you saying with the heavier bars, if you don't go 6 to 7 links with a 3/4 ton, having the dead weight on the hitch is causing more flex?
Given this scenario, wouldn't you begin to get flex in your bars at 1/2 the tension? 600 vs 1200 lbs - therefore less stress on the rig?
Dave
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Old 12-12-2008, 01:38 AM   #19
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crack in the skin

The dealer did rig the WD gear. I was out of warranty on 10/26/08. I had the RV in for floor repair which was a botched job and many other issues that were not fixed. After I picked it up I noticed the crack. It looks as though someone tried to cover it up. I have sent pics to Airstream. I will now find out what they will pay for.
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Old 12-12-2008, 08:07 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Fyrzowt View Post
Given this scenario, wouldn't you begin to get flex in your bars at 1/2 the tension? 600 vs 1200 lbs - therefore less stress on the rig?
Dave
There are "THREE" things the torsion bars must do, at the same time.

They must move some weight, "AND" also have a significant bend, as well as offering a soft ride.

Having a small bend in an excessive rated bar, doesn't do it.

In that case, not enough weight is moved.

Over hitching and excessive rated tow vehicles have become a national disease.

I am publishing 2 articles that will demonstrate the foolishness behind those actions.

They will both be out withing the next 6 months.

Andy
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Old 12-12-2008, 09:36 AM   #21
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Twinkie
Have U ever had your rig to the scales. How many links U have used in the chains means nothing if You have not looked at where the weight is. U may be pullin to much. I use all six links that are in my chains. I have tried tighter settings but the ride is so rough I cant leave it that way. U have to have flex. I have axle weights that are 4120 steer/4580 drive/5060 on the trailer tandem/ With a total of 13760 lbs gross.Thats with driver off. I weight 200 lbs
I use 550 lb bars on an old style Reese dual cam.
Below is indicated what our TV is. We get a very smooth ride.
Roger
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Old 12-12-2008, 10:00 AM   #22
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Reading with interest... Maybe I am happy my Expedition has a "mushy" rear configuration; it has that independent suspension and I don't have the auto levelling option.
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Old 12-12-2008, 04:07 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In View Post
There are "THREE" things the torsion bars must do, at the same time.

They must move some weight, "AND" also have a significant bend, as well as offering a soft ride.

Having a small bend in an excessive rated bar, doesn't do it.

In that case, not enough weight is moved.

Over hitching and excessive rated tow vehicles have become a national disease.

I am publishing 2 articles that will demonstrate the foolishness behind those actions.

They will both be out withing the next 6 months.

Andy
Funny thing. I don't feel foolish pulling my heavy(for Airstream) camper, or 13,000 lbs of tractor and gooseneck behind my F350. I kinda feel safer and in control doing so around the hills of Kentucky. I do look forward to the articles though. I can see people cranking the load bars to the point of unweighting the drive wheels.
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Old 12-12-2008, 06:26 PM   #24
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I've been crunching the numbers to see why my Dodge Ram 2500, 2WD diesel, 138" wheelbase, 6.5' bed, 4-speed automatic, is considered 'too much' TV for my 1990 29' Excella.

The trailer has a dry weight of about 5800lbs, and a capacity of 1200lbs, for a loaded weight of 7000lbs. The spec claims 700lbs tongue weight, which I assume is when the trailer is unloaded (12% of trailer weight). Loaded, 14% of 7000lbs gives me 1000lbs tongue weight. If I'm carrying 80lbs of propane and 40 gallons of water, I have a net capacity of 784 lbs in the trailer.

From Dodge's website, 2001 RAM Pickup Payload and Towing Charts, my truck has a curb weight of 5981lbs, payload of 2820lbs (a second chart lists it as 3550lbs, but I'll take the smaller number in the 'tow ratings' table), GVWR of 8800lbs, GCWR of 16000lbs, and a 'tow weight' listed as 9850 lbs (I assume max trailer weight). The front axle is rated at 4500lbs, the rear at 6040lbs.

Note that the loaded Excella is 78% of the recommended maximum tow weight for the truck.

I'll have to do some measurements to get a more accurate axle load estimate, but using a static unloaded distribution ratio of 60% front/40% rear for the empty pickup, the front would have 3588 lbs, rear 2392 lbs.

Using round numbers of 36" from the ball to the axle and the 138" wheelbase, and assuming NO weight distribution, summing the torques about the front or rear axles to zero tells me that the rear axle will take up 1.29 times the tongue weight, and the front axle will be unloaded by 0.26 times the tongue weight. Using the 1000lb tongue weight, I would have 3328lbs front, 3682lbs rear, and the trailer axles will take up 5971lbs. These ratings are well within the capacity of the truck axles, but notice that the front axle is loaded to about 75%, and the rear to 60% capacity. Looking at axle ratings I have capacity for 1172lbs more load on the front, 2358lbs more on the rear, but this would exceed the payload of 2820lbs.
Having 1000lbs on the tongue means the net payload of the truck drops from 2820lbs to 1820lbs.

Adding in 30 gallons of diesel in the truck (214lbs), the weight of me and my dogs (320 lbs), I have net capacity in the truck for 1285lbs of cargo in the truck.

So the total weight of trailer + TV at this point, with a a full trailer but nothing but me, the dogs and some fuel in the truck, is 7000 + 5981 + 534 = 13515lbs, or 85% of maximum GCWR. Adding in the extra 1285lbs of cargo brings me to 92.5% capacity.


I really don't see how people can be saying that a 3/4 ton truck is 'too much' tow vehicle for a 29' Airstream, given that even loading the trailer modestly will be pushing the rig towards 75% of GCWR. It seems if I ran a 1/2 ton truck, SUV, van or sedan, I wouldn't be able to carry much stuff at all--just an empty truck and trailer.

So if it's really the stiffness of truck, and not the WD bars on the hitch, causing cracks in the AS, I would agree that the trailer body design is poor, becuase the combined weight of the trailer and a reasonable amount of stuff gets you close to the maximum load recommended by the manufacturer, which is probably optimistic to begin with.

I'm glad I didn't buy a wimpy tow vehicle. I plan to move into this trailer FT some day, with boondocking in mind.

However I do think I'll buy some lighter WD bars. The bars that came with my trailer are 1000lb bars.

Mike
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Old 12-12-2008, 07:19 PM   #25
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If you forget about hear say and Published stats and supposed or calulated weights and take that truck to the scales and weight the steering and drive and then the whole truck. Then go home and hook to the trailer Like I did, go back to the scales and reweight everything. You will then know that Your Dodge is quite adequate to handle your trailer. BUT THE TAIL IS IN THE SCALE.
There are several truckstops I know for sure In the St.Louis area and they have CAT SCALES and for a small fee you can determine if your setup is correct.
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Old 12-13-2008, 12:39 PM   #26
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It's ridiculous to think that you now have to worry about babying an AS with an underpowered, cushy TV.
The structural aspects of the trailer should be built to handle most road tow/conditions. Period!!
Camping is about hauling more than just you and the AS. Generators, fuel, bikes, ATV's, extra water, kids, dogs.
When I turn on to that long steep ramp to the expressway, I want to be readily up to merging speed on my terms.
If the skin cracks or separates under normal use, it will be SOB here I come.

Tom
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Old 12-13-2008, 02:37 PM   #27
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It's ridiculous to think that you now have to worry about babying an AS with an underpowered, cushy TV. The structural aspects of the trailer should be built to handle most roadtow/conditions. Period!! If the skin cracks or separates under normal use, it will be SOB here I come.
Ditto that.
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Old 12-13-2008, 02:54 PM   #28
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Even though you might be trying to insult my tow vehicle, I can take it. Where is old Action when you need him?
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