Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 02-17-2009, 12:55 PM   #1
4 Rivet Member
 
vhord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 375
Images: 96
Closed End Pop Rivets

While re-ordering my rivet inventory today at my hardware store I was reminded of a request that I had several years ago for closed end pop rivets. My hardware suppliers do not stock them.

I have been concerned that a lot of the exterior pieces on my Airstream (rub rails, trim, name plates, reflectors, etc.) had been attached with standard pop rivets which can leak. I think that closed end rivets like these or these would be a better application. They would appear to be less likely to leak than even an Olympic rivet although for skin replacement the Olympic rivets would have a better appearance.


Name:   closedEndRivets.jpg
Views: 4754
Size:  9.8 KB

Some of the Airstream parts dealers stock pop rivets in matching colors (blue, brown, etc.) but they are standard type rivets. IMHO - If these closed end pop rivets were better I would have thought they would stock them for all exterior applications.
__________________

__________________
vhord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2009, 11:58 AM   #2
Moderator
 
Kevin245's Avatar

 
Vintage Kin Owner
... , ...
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 9,390
Images: 9
I use them on other applications with great success. I don't see any reason why they would not work better than standard rivets for non-skin applications.
__________________

__________________

"You wouldn't worry so much about what others think of you if you realized how seldom they do."

Eleanor Roosevelt

Kevin245 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2009, 12:58 PM   #3
Rivet Master
 
utee94's Avatar
 
1963 26' Overlander
Austin , Texas
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,636
I like the idea, there are certainly some applications for this type of rivet on an Airstream.
utee94 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2009, 03:02 PM   #4
4 Rivet Member
 
Distantdrummer's Avatar
 
1975 31' Sovereign
Houston , Texas
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 494
Vernon I would like to see what these look like after riveting.
If they are near the same price as open end, why would anyone not use these?
Only advantage in the open end I can think of would be that they are easier to drill out due to the "pilot" hole.
Now if the closed ends have an ugly finised appearance then that would also be a detriment.
And if it takes a whole lot more grip muscle to squeeze them set, I guess that too would be a factor.

Will they not dress up similar to an Olympic with the right shave or Dremmel touch?

And why did you say less likely to leak than even an Olympic? Are Olympics prone to leaking?
What sizes do they come in and are they aluminum?
Lastly can you special order them?


thanks
__________________
__________________________
____ d'drummer ____

...aahh..rumm..pu..tum..tummm...
Distantdrummer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2009, 04:18 PM   #5
Moderator
 
Kevin245's Avatar

 
Vintage Kin Owner
... , ...
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 9,390
Images: 9
Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by Distantdrummer View Post
Vernon I would like to see what these look like after riveting.
If they are near the same price as open end, why would anyone not use these?
Only advantage in the open end I can think of would be that they are easier to drill out due to the "pilot" hole.
Now if the closed ends have an ugly finised appearance then that would also be a detriment.
And if it takes a whole lot more grip muscle to squeeze them set, I guess that too would be a factor.

Will they not dress up similar to an Olympic with the right shave or Dremmel touch?

And why did you say less likely to leak than even an Olympic? Are Olympics prone to leaking?
What sizes do they come in and are they aluminum?
Lastly can you special order them?


thanks
D-Squared,

They look like regular pop rivets when installed. The difference is on the back side. The swage bulb on the pull pin is encased in the sheath, unlike a regular pop rivet where the bulb end is visible and exposed. Look at the picture that was posted, and compare it to a conventional pop rivet if you have one available.
__________________

"You wouldn't worry so much about what others think of you if you realized how seldom they do."

Eleanor Roosevelt

Kevin245 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2009, 06:05 PM   #6
4 Rivet Member
 
Distantdrummer's Avatar
 
1975 31' Sovereign
Houston , Texas
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 494
OK
I was thinking that upon set the mandrel hole was filled by something that pulled up and out. Leaving a nipple that plugged the hole.
If the hole looks the same I would always have doubt that it was actually sealed in the rear.
Guess just to shoot some pookey into the standard pop-rivet holes is still the sure way??
__________________
__________________________
____ d'drummer ____

...aahh..rumm..pu..tum..tummm...
Distantdrummer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2009, 08:01 AM   #7
4 Rivet Member
 
vhord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 375
Images: 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Distantdrummer View Post
Guess just to shoot some pookey into the standard pop-rivet holes is still the sure way??
Unless you have access to the back side of the rivet you will not be able to do this very successfully.
__________________
vhord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2009, 11:43 AM   #8
Moderator
 
Kevin245's Avatar

 
Vintage Kin Owner
... , ...
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 9,390
Images: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Distantdrummer View Post
OK
I was thinking that upon set the mandrel hole was filled by something that pulled up and out. Leaving a nipple that plugged the hole.
If the hole looks the same I would always have doubt that it was actually sealed in the rear.
Guess just to shoot some pookey into the standard pop-rivet holes is still the sure way??

From the outside they look just like regular pop rivets. The shank break occurs near the surface, but not like an Olympic rivet. They really do work well for belly skin, or beltline area applications.

I'll be gald to send you some to play with if I ever get back to the US.

Regards,

Kevin
__________________

"You wouldn't worry so much about what others think of you if you realized how seldom they do."

Eleanor Roosevelt

Kevin245 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2009, 03:19 PM   #9
4 Rivet Member
 
vhord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 375
Images: 96
In case anyone is interested I ordered some closed end pop rivets for outside applications and a bag of regular pop rivets for the inside skin. In the following picture you can see the difference. The closed end are on the left and the regular pop rivets are on the right. I think the closed end pop rivets will definitely be more water tight.
Click image for larger version

Name:	Closed end pop rivets.jpg
Views:	3080
Size:	39.0 KB
ID:	76354
__________________
vhord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2009, 03:31 PM   #10
Rivet Master
 
Jim Clark's Avatar
 
2012 28' International
Currently Looking...
New Orleans , Louisiana
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,077
Images: 6
I think you may want to look a Olympic Rivets and a rivet shaver for the exterior panel work. I had never seen the closed end rivets but do see a application. Inland has Olympic Rivets.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f381...lation-23.html
__________________
Jim N5TJZ Air# 174
2012 International Serenity 28
2005 Safari 25 SS Traded
1968 Globetrotter Sold
2011 F150 Ecoboost
Jim Clark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2009, 03:50 PM   #11
4 Rivet Member
 
toddster's Avatar
 
1967 20' Globetrotter
Campbell , California
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 368
Images: 10
Given proper application, closed end rivets will provide a water tight seal - I've used them in designs that are subject to submersion (about 6" of water).
__________________
toddster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2009, 03:57 PM   #12
Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
 
Inland RV Center, In's Avatar
 
Corona , California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,499
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by toddster View Post
Given proper application, closed end rivets will provide a water tight seal - I've used them in designs that are subject to submersion (about 6" of water).
All rivets will leak, that are pulled, unless they are sealed underneath the rivet head.

When the holes are drilled, even with a 20,000 to 30,000 rpm drill, the holes are never "perfectly round." Close examination of those rivet holes will show that they are ever so slight triangular shaped.

That being the case, they can leak.

Buck rivets, tend do fill those holes, since the body is expanded to fill a hole.

Sealing each rivet as it's installed, is the sure way to be leak proof.

Andy
__________________
Inland RV Center, In is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2009, 04:11 PM   #13
4 Rivet Member
 
vhord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 375
Images: 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Clark View Post
I think you may want to look a Olympic Rivets and a rivet shaver for the exterior panel work. I had never seen the closed end rivets but do see a application. Inland has Olympic Rivets.
I have some Olympic rivets but plan on saving them for future repairs when I do not have access to the inside. I plan on using the closed end pop rivets just on the rub rails, name plates, etc. and I am using bucked rivets on the skin repairs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by toddster View Post
Given proper application, closed end rivets will provide a water tight seal - I've used them in designs that are subject to submersion (about 6" of water).
At least they won't leak down the center mandrel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In View Post
All rivets will leak, that are pulled, unless they are sealed underneath the rivet head.

When the holes are drilled, even with a 20,000 to 30,000 rpm drill, the holes are never "perfectly round." Close examination of those rivet holes will show that they are ever so slight triangular shaped.

That being the case, they can leak.

Buck rivets, tend do fill those holes, since the body is expanded to fill a hole.

Sealing each rivet as it's installed, is the sure way to be leak proof.

Andy
I agree that sealant should still be applied when installing them. That would help seal the outside perimeter. It's the center mandrel that I am concerned with. With regular pop rivets (and Olympic rivets) it would be impossible to seal the center mantrel without access from the inside after setting them.
__________________
vhord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2009, 08:57 AM   #14
1 Rivet Member
 
1960 24' Tradewind
KINGSLAND , Georgia
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 5
So how do you "seal underneath the rivet head?"... --Bill Morrow
__________________

__________________
k4ter is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Airstream or Pop-up? Jezibels Buyer Guidelines 50 08-13-2009 07:21 AM
Buck rivets or Olympic rivets? Sparkygus Ribs, Skins & Rivets 20 02-28-2009 09:33 AM
Lousy Rivets!/Weak rivets sunk the Titantic? 1956Safari Off Topic Forum 14 04-18-2008 02:35 PM
What's with the pop up ads?? Ultradog Off Topic Forum 15 04-13-2007 09:22 AM
Olympic Shaved Rivets vs. Buck Rivets with Dimple msjaarda Ribs, Skins & Rivets 8 03-16-2007 11:00 PM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:13 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.