Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 02-28-2010, 12:23 PM   #21
Master of Universe
 
Gene's Avatar
 
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction , Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 12,711
Thanks guy'. That clears it up.

Gene
Gene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2010, 09:23 AM   #22
4 Rivet Member
 
WILDRTEXAS's Avatar
 
1970 27' Overlander
ARLINGTON , TEXAS
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 335
Images: 31
Send a message via Skype™ to WILDRTEXAS
Quote:
Originally Posted by bimpy View Post
What the heck size is #20 and #30 bits? I have been using 9/64 on most of the interior rivets. When I go to the store I can never find bits labeled #20 or30
Great question. I have often wondered the same about bit sizes.
Thanks for getting to the answer. Thanks to all for solid answers
__________________
He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion...

Taylor 1/20/96 - 11/28/08

WILDRTEXAS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2010, 09:30 AM   #23
Rivet Master
 
guy99's Avatar
 
1984 31' Airstream310
Dunsmuir , California
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,336
Images: 16
Try this:

Drill bit sizes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
__________________
If you want others to be happy, practice compassion.
If you want to be happy, practice compassion - The Dalai Lama

1984 310 Limited Motorhome
Courtesy Parking (W/S/E/Wi-Fi) on I-5 in Northern California, 70 miles from Oregon border
guy99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2010, 09:36 AM   #24
Master of Universe
 
Gene's Avatar
 
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction , Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 12,711
I went to an Ace Hardware yesterday and they had a large variety of numbered bit sizes.

They also had a variety of 1/8" pop rivets—bigger and smaller heads and strengths. I hope I got the right ones.

Gene
Gene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2010, 10:42 AM   #25
Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
 
Inland RV Center, In's Avatar
 
Corona , California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
Images: 1
tools and parts

Generally speaking, when your working on something special, like an Airstream, the place to find tools and parts, is a "special" store.

When working on common things, then the common parts stores are the places to go.

Drill bits for Airstream work, are available from some dealers.

Andy
__________________
Andy Rogozinski
Inland RV Center
Corona, CA
Inland RV Center, In is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2012, 01:40 PM   #26
Vintage Trailer Supply
Commercial Member
 
VintageRV's Avatar
 
1956 22' Caravanner
Vintage Kin Owner
Montpelier , Vermont
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 134
I just noticed this old thread and see a lot of good info in it. However, the "huge myth" described below about #20 bits for 5/32" Olympic rivets is a false alarm. The best authority for what size bit to use with Olympic rivets is the company that makes Olympic rivets, Gesipa. Here's what they spec:
Item # RV6607-5-5, Aluminum Rivet/Aluminum Mandrel on Gesipa Fasteners USA

Frankly, a #21 bit is good too, as long as the rivet doesn't get burred as it is inserted in the hole. Happy riveting!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In View Post
There are 3 drill bit sizes for the rivets that Airstream has used for many years.

1/8" rivets use #30 drill bit

5/32" rivets use #21 drill bit

3/16" rivets use #11 drill bit.

A #20 drill bit is a double oversize for the Olympic rivets, and should not be used as it does not fill the holes as well as the #21 drill bit.

If your going to buy the drill bits, buy the correct sizes.

The use of the #20, is a huge MYTH, and does not do an excellent job nearly as well as the #21 drill bits.

The Olympic rivets are .15625 in diameter.

#21 is .159"
#20 is .161"

Some people use a 5/32 inch drill bit, and wallow out the hole, when using Olympic rivets.

That's not a good idea when doing sheet metal work, unless you kick quality and precision to the curb.

Water leaks can happen, in spite of top quality, let alone begging for leaks.

Andy
__________________
Steve Hingtgen
Vintage Trailer Supply
WBCCI #1573
VintageRV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2012, 01:50 PM   #27
3 Rivet Member
Commercial Member
 
Greg@AirLA's Avatar
 
1960 24' Tradewind
Riverside , United States
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 111
Whatever rivet you use be careful buying from a local hardware store, most of what they have are aluminum with a STEEL mandrel, these will rust eventually and are alot harder to remove.
Greg
Greg@AirLA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2012, 01:50 PM   #28
Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
 
Inland RV Center, In's Avatar
 
Corona , California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
Images: 1
The Airstream factory, has very recently come out with a "Official Airstream Rivet Kit".

Amoung other things included are #30, #21 and #10 drill bits.

A #20 allows a little extra "slop" that should never be used when doing Airstream sheet metal work.
__________________
Andy Rogozinski
Inland RV Center
Corona, CA
Inland RV Center, In is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2012, 09:25 PM   #29
4 Rivet Member
 
Hodum's Avatar
 
1995 34' Excella
Corinth , Mississippi
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 304
I'm learning. If you all just keep this up I might become an expert. Seriously, I have some rivets that are loose on my awning track as well as one popped near the top of the door. That is the reason for looking at this and other threads about rivets and bits. I want to thank each of you for valuable information.
__________________
Why settle for anything less?
1995 34ft Classic Excella 1000
2012 Kings Ranch F-250 FX-4, 6.7 diesel, 6 speed auto trans.
TAC # MS-8
Hodum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2012, 02:06 PM   #30
Vintage Trailer Supply
Commercial Member
 
VintageRV's Avatar
 
1956 22' Caravanner
Vintage Kin Owner
Montpelier , Vermont
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 134
Sometimes I can't sleep at night. Usually because my Airstream is leaking ;-) ... but sometimes because I'm focused on some ridiculously small detail of a part we sell.

In this case, the matter keeping me awake is drill bits. Of course this is somewhat silly since only .002" separates the two bit sizes we are discussing here. We're talking about the best drill bit for an Olympic blind rivet here. The debate is between #20 and #21 sizes. #20 drill bits are .161" diameter. #21 bits are .159" diameter. You can drill a hole with each next to each other and you won't be able to tell them apart.

However, much has been written about this subject so I did some research online by looking at the resources available from Gesipa (who makes Olympic rivets) and Alcoa (who makes Marson) and a bunch of other major blind rivet manufacturers. In that web search, I am consistently finding all manufacturers recommending #20 bits for blind riveting.

But wait: this is not an "I told you so" posting. I found something else. While I was researching, I decided to look at some of my old and trustworthy airframe mechanic's books to see if the same recommendation holds true for solid buck rivets (the kind used to build Airstream exteriors). The answer surprised me:

Aircraft Sheet Metal (Jeppesen Sanderson Training Products, 1988) says: "Alcoa claims that a rivet should fit as tight as possible before driving, especially those rivets of harder alloy." Airstream rivets are one of the softest rivets available (1100), so it is less important than with a hard rivet. However, the book states the ideal rivet for a 5/32" solid rivet is a #21.

Standard Aircraft Handbook (McGraw-Hill, 1999) says: "Holes must be clean, round, and of the proper size. Forcing a rivet into a small hole will usually cause a burr to form under the rivet head." The book states that the proper size for a 5/32" solid rivet is #21.

Aircraft Sheet Metal Work
(McGraw-Hill, 1942) says: "Rivets should fit snugly. The best clearance is the smallest one that will permit the rivet to be inserted easily and without delay." The book states that the proper size for a 5/32" solid rivet is #21.

So... it looks like #20 bits are recommended for blind riveting with Olympic and other "pop" style rivets. And #21 bits are recommended for solid buck riveting. Remember that we are talking about so little difference in sizes that it probably doesn't matter as much as the fact that you probably ovaled that hole badly when you drilled out the original 1/8" rivet.

My takeaway for this is that we are now going to start selling #21 bits alongside the #20 bits we sell. And we will explain why on our site.

I will add this: when I was working on my 1956 Airstream this past weekend, I was using a #20 bit to ream out the old 1/8 holes so I could reattach a chimney on my trailer. Even after reaming with a #20, and using plenty of clecos, I couldn't get the darn rivet in the hole a few times because the holes wouldn't stay aligned.

Enough on this topic...I'm going to get some sleep.
__________________
Steve Hingtgen
Vintage Trailer Supply
WBCCI #1573
VintageRV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2012, 03:22 PM   #31
Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
 
Inland RV Center, In's Avatar
 
Corona , California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
Images: 1
Steve.

Rivets require round holes.

Typical drilling makes an imperfect hole, that is ever so slightly triangular.

That's the cause of the ill fit of the rivets.

The simple design of drill bits allows that to happen.

The triangular hole allows a very small portion of the rivet to rest against the metal. The larger the hole, the more movement the sheetmetal can make, which in time, elongates the holes.

But, I would go with the Aircraft Industries any day over RV companies or their suppliers.

Andy
__________________
Andy Rogozinski
Inland RV Center
Corona, CA
Inland RV Center, In is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Drill a hole Chuck Ribs, Skins & Rivets 18 02-13-2019 02:58 PM
Vintage bits and pieces Argonaut20 All Argosy Trailers 7 03-09-2006 07:43 PM
bits 'n' bobs kayamtom Modifications 6 10-03-2005 05:23 PM
drill size? Stormy Weather Ribs, Skins & Rivets 18 10-17-2004 12:57 PM


Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:51 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.