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07-18-2007, 06:21 PM
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#1
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1 Rivet Member
1961 26' Overlander
West Linn
, Oregon
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 14
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1950's & 1960's Original Style Solid Rivets Anyone?
I have been looking several weeks now for original looking solid rivets to re-attach the shell of my 61 Overlander following my shell off floor replacement. I understand from the great info here on the forums that I am looking for the AN456 style 5/32 modified brazier head rivet. Does anyone know where I can find these? They seem to be a part that is now obsolete, but NOS batches can still be found occasionally. Any help or advice would be appreciated. I think I'm going to need about 1-2 pounds worth.
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07-18-2007, 07:07 PM
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#2
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3 Rivet Member
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 239
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Have you contacted Airstream Parts Department or an Airstream dealer?
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07-18-2007, 07:41 PM
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#4
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Rivet Master
1956 22' Flying Cloud
Durango
, Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: 1975 25' Tradewind
Posts: 3,491
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If at all possible I would not use olympics - they are expensive and do not have near the strength of buck rivets.
61 - all my rivets came from Aircraft Spruce Co in Ca. I'm not sure of the number you mention, but I believe they were 5/32 - used an air gun to set. I believe that is what most of us have used
Ken J.
__________________
1956 Flying Cloud
Founder :
Four Corners Unit
Albuquerque National Balloon Fiesta
Rally
Vintage Trailer Academy - Formerly the original
restoration rally
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07-18-2007, 07:44 PM
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#5
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Rivet Master
1956 22' Flying Cloud
Venice
, California
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 672
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken J
If at all possible I would not use olympics - they are expensive and do not have near the strength of buck rivets.
61 - all my rivets came from Aircraft Spruce Co in Ca. I'm not sure of the number you mention, but I believe they were 5/32 - used an air gun to set. I believe that is what most of us have used
Ken J.
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ken, i thought the only way to get the look of the original rivets was to buy olympic and use the rivet shaver tool. i could swear i've read that in many places on the forum. will the buck rivets look like the originals?
__________________
david
*by asking the above question,
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07-18-2007, 08:33 PM
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#6
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Rivet Master
, Minnesota
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,721
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If you want to be really correct, the modified Brazier head rivets are the way to go. They are still available, try Byler Rivet.
I used Universal Head rivets. From ATS. It's hard to tell the difference; the Universal head is a little taller and has a more rounded over edge. Head diameter of the 5/32 Universal is the same as the original Brazier head. Only a real pro would notice.
Another thing to consider is that most rivet setting tools will be profiled for Universal head rivets. If you get Modified Brazier head rivets you may want to relieve the edge of the rivet set to make it match the Brazier head profile.
The Olympic rivets after shaving have a head profile that is just like the Universal head. If you are a toolmaker you could probably grind the head shaver to make it more like a Brazier head, but i've not tried that and you could get into trouble.
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07-18-2007, 10:15 PM
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#7
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1 Rivet Member
1961 26' Overlander
West Linn
, Oregon
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 14
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Thanks everyone. I do have the whole trailer apart and definely want to use solid or bucked rivets instead of Olympics. I had a 61 Globetrotter parts trailer I took apart that had extensive use of Olympics and they did not look like they had held up very well. Some had very little clamping load left, as the stem had started to pull out. That said, I'm sure they have their place for minor repairs, but not for structural repairs in my opinion.
Markdoane - Great observation regarding the tooling for driving the rivet. The major concern I have with Universal rivets is that the ones I've seen have a number stamped on the top. Did the ones you used have a number stamped into the top or were they smooth?
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07-18-2007, 11:06 PM
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#8
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Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
Corona
, California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1961 Cruiser
Thanks everyone. I do have the whole trailer apart and definely want to use solid or bucked rivets instead of Olympics. I had a 61 Globetrotter parts trailer I took apart that had extensive use of Olympics and they did not look like they had held up very well. Some had very little clamping load left, as the stem had started to pull out. That said, I'm sure they have their place for minor repairs, but not for structural repairs in my opinion.
Markdoane - Great observation regarding the tooling for driving the rivet. The major concern I have with Universal rivets is that the ones I've seen have a number stamped on the top. Did the ones you used have a number stamped into the top or were they smooth?
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We have various sizes of smooth head buck rivets in stock, that we also use in our service department.
Andy
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07-19-2007, 06:58 AM
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#9
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Rivet Master
1971 21' Globetrotter
Currently Looking...
Currently Looking...
Currently Looking...
Arvada
, Colorado
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 3,530
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As stated above the original rivets were a brazier head rivet but they were a 1/8" rivet not a 5/32. The difference between the 1/8" braizer and the 5/32" universal head is so slight that even myself, that does aircraft metal work professionally, have trouble telling the difference. the correct part numbers for the 5/32 universal head solid shank rivets is as follows
MS20470AD5-X Dimple on head 2117-T4 Aluminum
Ms20470A5-X Smooth head 1100 Aluminum (very soft)
X is the lenght in 1/16th's
Kip
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07-19-2007, 07:41 AM
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#10
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Rivet Master
1956 22' Flying Cloud
Durango
, Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: 1975 25' Tradewind
Posts: 3,491
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Urban
As mentioned above, olympics are great for repairs, very expensive (relative) and are not as strong - so if there is anyway to access the inside, I would use buck rivets. Olympics are great if you can't get to the inside.
Ken J.
__________________
1956 Flying Cloud
Founder :
Four Corners Unit
Albuquerque National Balloon Fiesta
Rally
Vintage Trailer Academy - Formerly the original
restoration rally
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07-19-2007, 08:07 AM
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#11
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Rivet Master
, Minnesota
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1961 Cruiser
Did the ones you used have a number stamped into the top or were they smooth?
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Cruiser,
I didn't notice anything embossed in the rivet heads until I finished. The great thing about age is you stop seeing the little things. The symbol looks like a legless R.
I bought some smooth headed rivets (un-hardened) for some cosmetic work. They are very soft. You can set them with a pencil eraser . Definitely stick with the dimple headed rivets.
Here's a picture of the symbol. Its at about 7 o'clock. It might show up better if I ever polish the Tradewind.
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07-19-2007, 10:16 AM
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#12
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Rivet Master
1971 21' Globetrotter
Currently Looking...
Currently Looking...
Currently Looking...
Arvada
, Colorado
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 3,530
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I get all of my rivets from here, Genuine Aircraft Hardware Co. , If ordered by the MS (Military Standard) number there should be nothing but the dimple on the head for a MS20470AD rivet and smooth for a MS20470A.
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07-19-2007, 02:55 PM
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#13
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1 Rivet Member
1961 26' Overlander
West Linn
, Oregon
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 14
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Great, this really helps. The contour difference of the Universal vs. the Mod Brazier didn't bother me nearly as much as the number that I saw stamped in the heads! I think the Universal rivet should work out if I get them with only the dimple and no darn number. Thanks everyone for the info! The Forums comes through again! - Eric
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07-19-2007, 04:22 PM
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#14
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Rivet Master
, Minnesota
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerowood
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Great source for rivets. I like the prices. The standard size are about 2 cents each. Thanks!
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07-19-2007, 08:19 PM
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#15
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Rivet Master
1956 22' Flying Cloud
Venice
, California
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 672
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ken, great, thanks for clearing that up. i'll look into the ones recommended by aero as i will have access to both sides.
__________________
david
*by asking the above question,
i verify that i have already used
the search feature to the best of my ability...
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07-20-2007, 07:50 AM
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#16
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Rivet Master
1956 22' Flying Cloud
Durango
, Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: 1975 25' Tradewind
Posts: 3,491
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David
I think you will be pleased with the result..... My wife and I became expert riviters when we put ours back together - it was fun too.
Ken
__________________
1956 Flying Cloud
Founder :
Four Corners Unit
Albuquerque National Balloon Fiesta
Rally
Vintage Trailer Academy - Formerly the original
restoration rally
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