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Old 01-18-2007, 10:33 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by 65GT
Wow -- the 'ol concave panel bend illusion trick! A very nice photo! So, I can't figure it out -- where does the straight edge go -- top or bottom?

I almost think you'd be better strapping that tool to a bench and holding your panel with two hands and just slightly pushing up on the panel while you run it back and forth putting in the slight bend.

That way you could work areas that aren't bent enough. I'm guessing (although I guessed these panels were straight mind you) when you rivet it on it will conform to the other surface quite a bit for a little correction?

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It may not be evident, but both sides of the panels are curved. One more than the other.
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Old 02-03-2010, 08:19 AM   #16
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I've bought a vice mounted roller form Harbor Freight for under $200. I've been practicing with this machine and I think it will do a great job.
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Old 02-03-2010, 08:18 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by NorCal Bambi View Post
I've bought a vice mounted roller form Harbor Freight for under $200. I've been practicing with this machine and I think it will do a great job.
Don
Cool. Please make me up a couple of replacement replacement panels. I did the best I could with the method Aero mentioned. That worked pretty well. I did have some "puckering" a long the seam as I riveted them. I like to believe that I have learned a lot since those panel replacements and would have not made the same mistakes in the riveting. But you have to move forward and not bog down in the little (or not too big of) imperfections.

There have been several other times I wish I had a tool of the sort. Currently I need to make an inside frame for my rear oval window. It would be best that I could relieve the edges with a flange, even if ever so slight. The slight flange allows the edges of flat panels not to show the imperfections of how they lay flush to another panel, even if that panel is a one inch wide frame around the window.

Other than a man needs a new tool every now and then, just because, what are you plans/needs for it?

Gene
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Old 02-03-2010, 11:27 PM   #18
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Gene, I'm going to have to replace some window frames also. So I will have to figure out how to create those angled edges also. The question I'm looking at how to solve is the corners. To me it looks like the metal will have to be shrunk to make those corner bends. Do you have any ideas on that. The EAA experimental Aircraft Association has a web site that has hints and how to on it. Maybe be can find some EAA people that are in The Forums group that will be willing to give us suggestions.
I won't be trying to make the window frame for some time yet. But I would be more that willing to share experiments and ideas with you on this.
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Old 02-03-2010, 11:32 PM   #19
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When you put the bead in the panels did you create a bend in the panel to somewhat match the shape for the panel or did you keep the panel straight? In my experiments I've found that I needed to put some bend in the panel at the same time as I was forming the bead. I think this would keep from creating the puckers. I'm sure of your application so I am just guessing here.
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Old 02-05-2010, 03:18 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by NorCal Bambi View Post
When you put the bead in the panels did you create a bend in the panel to somewhat match the shape for the panel or did you keep the panel straight? In my experiments I've found that I needed to put some bend in the panel at the same time as I was forming the bead. I think this would keep from creating the puckers. I'm sure of your application so I am just guessing here.
Don
I put the flange on while the panels flat. The puckers did not show up until the rivets. Just bending it and dry fitting with the clecos did not cause the puckers. I guess there is enough play with clecos. Maybe if I did try to hold the panel in a bend as I applied the flange, then it would not have puckered.

I pre-drilled and clecoed the panels in place first. I think I also put a rivet in every other or three holes and then back filled. I think this was my mistake. When dry fit it looked good, but the rivets bind it into place and even the slightest "extra" has to go somewhere (pucker). You just do not have this happen on flat panels.

I would drill and rivet as I go from one end to the other and not pre-drill if I had to do it again. As you rivet the panels, if you predrill the holes, they will shift as you rivet and not line up. I am not sure this will solve everything either. At the time I had all the panels cut and clecoed in place. I did not have any spare aluminum to redo the segemnts after they puckered. Nor the will to redo them.

If you experiment I would think you need to use the same alloy and thickness as the final product as alloys behave differently. Also, you need to work with a like size and cut panel. What may work on a smaller or less curved cut may not be indicitive of what may happen.

All you are doing is reminding me how long it has been since then and how NOT so far I have progressed. But good luck.
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Old 02-05-2010, 04:19 PM   #21
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You know the nice thing about working in aluminum and rivets is you can just drill the rivets and make a new panel.
I would suggest drilling and clecoing with 1/8" first. The drilling the #20 and putting in the rivet. If it is clecoed off it should not move.
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Old 02-06-2010, 08:52 AM   #22
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I put the flange on while the panels flat. The puckers did not show up until the rivets. Just bending it and dry fitting with the clecos did not cause the puckers. I guess there is enough play with clecos. Maybe if I did try to hold the panel in a bend as I applied the flange, then it would not have puckered.

I pre-drilled and clecoed the panels in place first. I think I also put a rivet in every other or three holes and then back filled. I think this was my mistake. When dry fit it looked good, but the rivets bind it into place and even the slightest "extra" has to go somewhere (pucker). You just do not have this happen on flat panels.

I would drill and rivet as I go from one end to the other and not pre-drill if I had to do it again. As you rivet the panels, if you predrill the holes, they will shift as you rivet and not line up. I am not sure this will solve everything either. At the time I had all the panels cut and clecoed in place. I did not have any spare aluminum to redo the segemnts after they puckered. Nor the will to redo them.

If you experiment I would think you need to use the same alloy and thickness as the final product as alloys behave differently. Also, you need to work with a like size and cut panel. What may work on a smaller or less curved cut may not be indicitive of what may happen.

All you are doing is reminding me how long it has been since then and how NOT so far I have progressed. But good luck.
Did you try starting at the center of the panels and work outboard to both ends, clecoing each hole as you go. I know you most likely don't want to here this but using the wing nut style clecos will draw the sheets together much tighter then the spring type, pulling the sheets together against the lip.
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Old 02-07-2010, 10:42 AM   #23
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Did you try starting at the center of the panels and work outboard to both ends, clecoing each hole as you go. I know you most likely don't want to here this but using the wing nut style clecos will draw the sheets together much tighter then the spring type, pulling the sheets together against the lip.
Well, all I can say is, that water has done gone under the bridge, down to the gulf, evaporated and rained somewhere else.
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Old 02-07-2010, 10:58 AM   #24
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look ahead...

I see another project in your future....it happens to us all. Now your experienced.
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Old 02-08-2010, 05:43 AM   #25
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this thread has sparked my curiosity a great deal. I have seen this slight bend to the leading edge of the panel as some here were talking about, however, I have also seen a bead too.
Click image for larger version

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That is from an Ohio built 54 Safari. It is not a bend, it is a bead. Does anyone have a Cali built 54ish to compare?
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Old 02-08-2010, 10:11 AM   #26
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I will be working on an Ohio built 57 Overlander soon. I dont have the trailer here yet but I do belive its segments also have a bead. Its a nice detail that would be a shame to not duplicate. How would a guy make this bead?
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Old 02-08-2010, 10:19 AM   #27
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this thread has sparked my curiosity a great deal. I have seen this slight bend to the leading edge of the panel as some here were talking about, however, I have also seen a bead too.
Attachment 95780
That is from an Ohio built 54 Safari. It is not a bend, it is a bead. Does anyone have a Cali built 54ish to compare?
On my 1950 FC each segment has both a bead on the top edge and a flange on the bottom. Since the top edge is not visable, I did not worry about the bead. THey may have changed their ways with later models.
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Old 02-08-2010, 10:37 AM   #28
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On my 1950 FC each segment has both a bead on the top edge and a flange on the bottom. Since the top edge is not visable, I did not worry about the bead. THey may have changed their ways with later models.
How do you form this bead? I will be replacing a few segments and would like to reproduce this detail
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