Door Hinges converted to Piano Hinges

[Ray Eklund]

Our 2006 23 foot Safari had the standard hinges that our 2014 25 foot International uses.

The hinges Airstream uses are strong.
The hinges Airstream uses are like those in many homes.
The hinges Airstream uses... separate from the walls from road vibrations.

By 2008 our 2006 Safari hinges and drawers were 'upgraded' to handle our Boondocking and Forest Service roads. The road vibrations would unscrew the hardware from the doors. If not totally, they were loose enough that I had to tighten them, or they would soon fall off and onto the floor.

I refer to this as 'Boondocking our Trailer'.

Two weeks of Boondocking in Wyoming our 2014 had the closet door next to the bed come off twice, so we just laid it upon the bed when traveling until coming back home.

The sliding doors in the bathroom would 'bounce' out of their slides, dumping the contents onto the floor.

The drawers next to the bed would come out and the top drawer fell out onto the floor. I already secured the chronic top drawer with a 'child proof latch' that installs inside the drawer. I have to open the top door to the closet in order to unlatch the drawer so it can be pulled out. But... it cured the problem!

It is as chronic as with the 2006 Safari and what I did with the 2006 hinge problems, I started today with our 2014 hinge problems. I also purchase a variety of drawer and door latches that need to be physically opened and closed when traveling.

Today: Lowe's- Gate House #0004067 1 1/2" x 30" Continuous Hinge (aka Piano Hinge) was used on the curved doors beneath the sink.

The doors themselves are made out of some molded material, but not a wood product. The hinges on these did not have chronic problems, but starting with them first as the curved doors take a bit more effort to get them right. The molded doors may need a slightly larger screw if I find that those supplied with the hinges are a bit too small. The next trip will a test if the molded doors need a slightly longer and larger diameter wood screw to make it secure, forever I hope.

I suspect that since these are not wood and lighter, the hinges do not get the up and down motion that loosens the screws and mounting hardware.

If you are considering replacing your stock hinges with a Piano Hinge, look at the closet and bathroom door installation which already use piano hinges. The pivot part of the hinge needs to be out from the door, as a ridge. Otherwise it will bind.

There are also two ways to install the opening and closing of the hinge. Wrong and Correct. The correct way will close completely. The wrong way will close only 90 degrees. Be aware of that before you totally mount the hinge...

It took me one hour to get back into the 'groove' installing the first hinge. I will do the other side tomorrow and then the closet door next to the bed and into the bathroom and swap out those hinges to piano hinges.

Finding a door on the floor or hanging frequently due to loose screws... is not the making of a happy trip.

If anyone is interested, after this post, I will continue with what difficulties, if any, are encountered with the easier doors.

Then... I found three kinds of latches and will see what might work to secure doors and drawers while moving. I will provide part numbers and brand of latches, as well.

[Burnside Bob]

Hi Ray:

Do keep us informed on your door solutions. We had numerous problems with doors opening and stuff spilling during the Wyoming adventure. Susan started duct taping the refer door closed. Of course, you have to remember to reapply the duct tape after opening the frig, and so even our last day saw a mess.

[duncans]

Don't listen to that shady character: Burnside Bob. He lies! Filthy rotten lies! The refrigerator door repeatedly flying open is a result of our granddaughter trying to open it without understanding how the latch works. I know this, because she told me that she did it. Now, that's honesty! If anyone has a good fix for that, I am all ears. Our '73 AS frig had a handy safety lock on it that I wish we had on this new fangled AS.

( I think that Ray's door latch problems is a result of his flying down washboard roads testing out his new 2016 F350! It is one beautiful powerful machine. And, the piano hinges are a great idea.) )

Susan

[rmkrum]

I'm installing a nice set of footman loops and a flat strap threaded through them to hold oven, fridge, privacy curtain and closet door shut in our rig. Kid-proofing straps hold the drawers shut for now. The bungee cord we used last trip was declared by the design department (DW) to be too ugly.


Sent from my pocket Internet using Airstream Forums

[ROBERTSUNRUS]

Hi, I have only had problems with my large closet door falling off a few times. This happened on our Alaska trip. [rough roads] Ray, please post pictures of your repairs.

[Dingo Girl]

Interested.

[WestieHouse]

After losing drawers and contents and retightening loose hinges several times, I installed these magnetic locks. They work great and we have had no further spills on rough roads.
http://www.homedecorators.com/detail...0-adType%5EPLA

I also inserted toothpicks into the screw holes for my loose hinges and this trick told to me by a cabinet maker worked wonders.

[Jacob D]

Originally Posted by WestieHouse

After losing drawers and contents and retightening loose hinges several times, I installed these magnetic locks. They work great and we have had no further spills on rough roads.
http://www.homedecorators.com/detail...0-adType%5EPLA

I also inserted toothpicks into the screw holes for my loose hinges and this trick told to me by a cabinet maker worked wonders.

That does work great. Even better is a match stick dipped in wood glue.

[Ray Eklund]

The configuration of various parts of each Airstream year, model and length will differ. The concept of installing piano hinges also has to be considered before... going to work. As I discovered on the closet door next to our Rear Bed 2014 International 25 footer.

When removing fixture make sure your hinge 'spine' is out far enough not to bind, and in enough to clear anything that may be in the way. If you make a mistake and need to remove and replace the hinge a fraction of an inch, move it up or down so to have a fresh place for the screws to be put into firm plastic, plywood or whatever...

The installation of piano hinges on the doors of our 2006 23 foot Sarari had more room on the right side than our 2014 25 foot International. The International has three pull out drawers that create a tight area for hinge and clearance of the left side of each drawer... I discovered.

The three photographs will illustrate how the finished job appears. The right side hinge leaves just enough space for the drawers to clear on the International.

[Ray Eklund]

Bathroom door side wall was not secured to interior wall that connect behind the toilet and the rear closet next to the bed in our 2014 International 25 foot.

The wall in the hallway seemed very flexible, so I took the 'liberty' to go into the bathroom and removed this flimsy section of floor to ceiling formica/wood insert to cover the... black tank pvc vent pipe in the corner.

This would be on the left, facing the toilet. It covers the right angles with the hypotenuse of paneling to cover the black pvc pipe. Photo may help.

There is an steel, floor to ceiling angle strip, that screws to the outer wall and the wall between the bathroom and closet. There were screws on the outer wall, but by moving the black pvc over... no screws to secure the bracket or outer wall to the closet wall.

Sounds complicated? Well, not when you see it, but it is hard to describe it.

Nancy pushed the exterior wall to be flush with the bathroom wall and I added all of the screws need to attach the bracket firmly to both walls. I suspect that the pvc prevented someone from looking at the bracket to finish attaching it to both walls.

I also had to cut about 1/8 of an inch off of the strip that the bathroom door closes and latches onto. It created a 'bow' at the bottom as it was too long. I used a hacksaw blade to cut it to fit, added five hard steel trim nails, and the white screw that held everything to floor at the bottom... tight and snug.

The third photo explains it all. This wall is thin and probably would not hold a standard Airstream wood screw. To secure the wall to the metal bracket, I drilled holes through the wall and did a bolt, washer and nut to secure it all. The pvc has some play when you unscrew the bracket that holds it to the wall. Then find some hand socket to hold the nut while someone on the other side tightens it. I put a washer on the exterior wall so the head of the bolt would not pull into the formica, or whatever this wall is composed of. It sure drilled out easy enough to be something other than wood or plywood.

Geez... all of this while getting hinges figured out.

[Ray Eklund]

The closet door next to the bed will not use a standard piano hinge. Takes a special bent one to do the job and I saw none at Lowe's.

The two brackets are also DIFFERENT than the other cabinet hardware used on doors... just great as the small threaded screws were worn out from coming loose all of the time.

I took fresh plates off of the cabinet hinges under the sink and installed them onto these brackets... and they were tight and seemed secure for now. The threaded bolts that secure the adjusting of the door are too short and back out on a door that is large and is shaken while being towed.

The story continues, but my R and R from fixing this interior up... has just began. I also substituted better screws in the process, but you must be careful that you do not use longer screws. The walls vary up to 1/2" in thickness. You might expect two, side by side walls, to be 1", but can be 1 3/4"....

[ROBERTSUNRUS]

Hi, Ray great job. My wall corner is different than yours. When I fixed mine, I use plastic screw cap covers. I couldn't find my pictures.


Mine are similar to these and they come in different colors.

[Ray Eklund]

A bit of a detour on hinges, but you have made it this far.

There are TWO 'folding privacy curtains'. One is next to the oven and when folded to the wall, it goes into a space and has a door to conceal it.

The second curtain is screwed onto the wall next to the rear bed. It would stick out and was of no use and I have no need for privacy... removed it, put a garbage bag on each end to keep it clean and have it stored away.

The small screws, on the toilet side of the trailer, that held it in place I left, but will check out if they do anything else, other than hold the curtain on the wall.

Removed the microwave. Once the four front screws are removed, you have to lift it up to clear the four rubber pads on the bottom. It takes two people. One to man handle the light microwave and someone else to unplug from the rear wall.

The compartment the microwave was installed is larger than expected, and... will hold lots of paper goods and clean out some overhead storage. It was also sealed very well. Found a popped rivet on the curve on the left side. Could also be used for Unifreck's dog... Jack Rabbit if we dog sit.

l like RobertSunrus plastic screw caps.

Since I have these tight to keep from vibrating loose... and if you did not know otherwise, you would have thought some sharp Airstream engineer came up with the idea to secure the wall to the rest of our trailer. By securing the angle bracket it firmed up that entire side of the fixtures. You might want to check yours...

I have to trim the piano hinges for the swinging doors in the bathroom. Good ol' Mr. Hacksaw will do that just fine. That is tomorrow's project as I get looking around for more tinkering in the process.

[Ray Eklund]

Checking out the bathroom doors below the sink and swapped out some original hinge hardware from the kitchen sink, which might solve the loose hinges. But... something else was discovered that might help everyone.

The bathroom sink was not screwed to the floor. You can see there is some movement in the past as it discolors the floor surface. The wood screws that would hold the counter top to the side wall, the screws vibrated out. The lower right curved wall that attaches to the pantry wall has several wooden dowel pins that were not glued, so there was a 1/8" gap on this side, causing this side of the cabinet to be loose.

I removed the aluminum 'kick plate' on the bottom curve and screwed the base onto the floor. I also added screws and replaced originals on the left side with better wood screws.

To secure the right side of the door hinge to curved cabinet, I drilled through the exterior finished cabinet which is about 1/2" thick and substituted some longer aggressive threaded wood screws.

If you investigate the fit of your sink cabinet and you have a loose cabinet... you will quickly figure out what you need to do. The pvc plumbing can be damaged with too much play and the pex water lines that are farther in, next to the internal aluminum wall.

Some of this is due to the NOT wanting to add exterior screws to damage the exterior finish at the assembly line. I understand that idea. What happens is there is nothing holding everything together. There are two wood screws on the right side, up high and an attempt was to putty them to conceal they were there. Both were loose. Used my more aggressive wood screws to get to those. You have to be able to use a variety of philips tools to manage the tight quarters.

You ask... Why go through all of this trouble?

If your cabinets are moving, everything else is affected. Once they are anchored to the floor, and to other cabinet walls... the movement ends. At least sitting in my garage.

Some may say the cabinets are now TOO stiff and will not flex. I will discover that in about six weeks and give it a good test.

You will need 1", 1 1/2" and 2" wood screws (like sheetrock screws with a more aggressive screw- not as fine). They seem to hold best with the material used in the Airstream.

Installed four or five latches to secure all drawers or doors that were likely to vibrate when moving or open up while moving. Again, these will be tested by getting back onto the road.

Those who restore an older Airstream probably add more hardware as well.

The wood panels are not sawed well to fit the contour of the curves... where concealed. Imagine that.... Cannot see it... a little slop is permitted.

What do I know about cabinets and hardware. Very little. But... obviously what I am doing will serve me better than what is already being used.

Time will tell. Maybe I will have to report that some ideas worked and some did not.

[Al and Missy]

Originally Posted by WestieHouse

After losing drawers and contents and retightening loose hinges several times, I installed these magnetic locks. They work great and we have had no further spills on rough roads.
http://www.homedecorators.com/detail...0-adType%5EPLA

I also inserted toothpicks into the screw holes for my loose hinges and this trick told to me by a cabinet maker worked wonders.

I bought a set of similar locks at BabiesRUs (set of 8 locks on sale for $24 IIRC) two weeks ago but just now getting around to installing them. I had to modify the drawers, but they work really well.

First step, cut a 2"x2" square out of the center of the front of the drawer box. I used an oscillating multi-tool with the saw blade.


Following the instructions, mark and drill the locations for the catch and the magnetic lock.

Mount the lock


Mount the catch


Here's a shot of the catch and the lock as the drawer is closing.


Adjust the catch forward and back so that the drawer has very little fore and aft movement when closed. Adjust the lock up and down so it just clears the catch when closing the drawer.

I'll post results after the next bumpy road.

Al

[Al and Missy]

In over 4,000 miles I have never had a secured drawer pop open. Others yes, but these, no.

Al

[waninae39]

i converted 4 door sets from euro style hinges to piano hinges in my 22FB sport

the ones under the kitchen counter mount to the rear back of the door

the ones under the lounge mount to the door edge

if your screw don't mount flush to the piano hinge, you may need to add 1/8" shims under the hinge for clearance

i used the broad short 5mm euro screws. they are designed to fit snug into particle board.

so far this save us space and gives us more room

[Daquenzer]

The one door on ours that is an issue is the long closet door. That would be the first to get a piano style hinge JUST like the bathroom door. Why doesn’t Airstream do that on the long closet door? Makes no sense.

[OTRA15]

Bungee cords on surface mounted strap eyes at all doors/drawers, including main entry suicide door. [sample shown]

KISS

Plenty of other threads: https://www.google.com/search?ei=yLS...4dUDCAo&uact=5

[Slietesa]

Thx for the info! Piano hinges on sink cabinet definitely a great idea. Those European hinges were not made for this application.