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Eyeballs · 01-05-2016, 01:57 PM

I think I've read every post on moving AGM batteries into the TT from the battery box. Forgive me if my questions have been answered elsewhere, I have looked.

Has anyone moved batteries inside the TT on the 23D? If yes where did you put them.

Goals:
Decrease hitch weight
Increase amp hours.

Background info:
We are not off grid enough to justify solar or a massive investment (rarely 3 nights, usually just 2). Have Honda 2000 if needed.

Plan:
Upgrade inverter to PD 4655
Upgrade to lifelines (size TBD)

Planning on DIY as I haven't found anyone yet in SLC UT who I trust to do the work. Would be open to upgrading to a magnum inverter/charger however I do work inside eyeballs, my electrical wiring knowledge ends at the rods and cones. Switching out for a PD 4655 is as far as I would feel comfortable on my own.

Sincere thanks for any advice or answers.

Silver Hawk · 01-05-2016, 02:09 PM

First I would weigh my AS fully loaded and weigh the tongue weight fully loaded.
With this information I would decide which side of the axles I put my batteries.
Since I had a tongue weight over ten percent of my AS weight I put my two 6volt AGM batteries (90 lbs. each) just behind my rear axle under my twin beds. Has worked great. Tows better and is out of the way.
If I needed a heaver tongue weight I would have put them forward.

alano · 01-05-2016, 05:54 PM

You can DIY a 200 W solar solution for about the price you're willing to spend on new AGM batteries and an updated converter. If you choose to upgrade to solar you can get by without upgrading your converter. This way you can keep your existing batteries and you'll only need to roll out your Honda 2000 when your boondocking, the sky is grey, and you've already depleted your batteries. Interested?

Eyeballs · 01-05-2016, 09:13 PM

Silver Hawk, Good point on weighing the trailer. It is on my to do list and see how that might determine where to put the batteries.

Alano, I love the idea of solar but have been hesitant for two reasons.

I've never tackled any significant electrical projects and haven't found anyone around here I am confident in. I would personally rather do these type of projects myself to make sure they are done well and to understand exactly what has been done.

Second is I love the look of the trailers and worry it will lose some of its authenticity with big solar panels on it. At the same time every solar build I've seen has looked quite good.

I would loveto hear your suggestions.

alano · 01-05-2016, 10:42 PM

If you wanted to consider solar and you wanted to do it yourself (which is what I did), I would recommend the following system as a minimum:

1. (2) 100 W Renology Panels. You can get these on Amazon, two for $270.
2. Blue Sky Solar Boost 2512iX-HV MPPT controller. If you have the room and think you might want to upgrade to a total of (4) panels then I would consider the Solar Boost 3024iL MPPT. Either way I would add the temperature sensor, IPN Pro Remote, and shunt kit. You can get this from AM Solar along with a wealth of info.
3. I would use the existing pre-wiring in the trailer to make the job easier. You'll be able to use the existing #10 AWG wiring for connection from a combiner box that you'll add on the roof to the solar controller. You'll also be able to use the existing CAT 5 cable that was also pre-installed in your trailer for the IPN Pro Remote.

There's a bunch more odds and ends that you'll need like brackets for the solar panels, on/off switch, fuse holder, combiner box, etc. We can talk about where you get these items later but first take a look at the main components, download the install manual for the controller, measure the panel dimensions and consult your AS manual for the pre-wiring info and see if you feel comfortable with the installation and if you'll be happy with the aesthetics. The panels can be attached to the roof with 3M VHB tape and only one hole in the roof is required to pass the pre-wiring into the combiner box. The most difficult part of my installation was cutting a hole in the aluminum splash in the kitchen area to mount the IPN remote. I did it with a Dremel tool and I'm quite pleased with the results. Lots of folks are here to help in case you get stuck or need help.

Eyeballs · 01-06-2016, 06:04 AM

Very grateful for your reply in this it does make a lot of sense.

As I think about it more this is likely something I will need to stage as lightening up the weight in the front by moving the batteries back is still a priority.

Will have to give a little more thought to whether I want to make all the changes at once or do the batteries first and add the solar later.

Silver Hawk · 01-06-2016, 10:29 AM

EyeBalls -
I understand your hesitation tackling the solar insulation.
I knew absolutely nothing about electrical or solar when I installed mine.
I just followed the included instructions and it has worked fine.
Used the Blue Sky controller - it came with complete instructions for installing itself and the panels.
I don't think you will find room to install two panels on a 23' AS. - on my 31' I only had room for one - between the AC and the rear vent. Used a 200 watt panel - you don't really notice it.
With the two 300amp AGM 6volt batteries, I have yet to use my 2000i Honda.
Good Luck!

m.hony · 01-06-2016, 10:57 AM

Why move the batteries?

xrvr · 01-06-2016, 11:34 AM

With the stock batteries in place and a generator you should have no problems with electric. Your water and sewer will give you more problems. So why move the batterys.

Eyeballs · 01-06-2016, 02:21 PM

Max Tounge weight on Q7 662.
Unloaded hitch weight 23D 720.
Different tow vehicle not an option.

A few on the forum like Rocco have been very helpful with ideas in other posts on lowering hitch weight...travel with only one propane tank on short trips, moving spare tire inside TT, weight distributing hitches....

If I can permanently move my batteries into the TT, as long as they are near the axle, this should mostly take care of the issue while upgrading the batteries at the same time.

biyak269 · 01-06-2016, 02:27 PM

Well, Eyeballs, you mention at least once that you are a novice at electrical work. The wiring and connections for that much 12V power has to be selected, routed and installed very carefully, or you could endanger yourself and your trailer.

My suggestion for an electrician in SLC would be to go to a marina that services big boats. They wire 12v AGV systems all the time, and this time of the year they might be looking for work like that.

Eyeballs · 01-07-2016, 06:37 AM

I like that idea a lot. No boating in these parts in the winter.

I will read around the forums a bit more to see if I feel comfortable tackling th job. If not I'm calling the local boat dealers.

lewster · 01-07-2016, 06:40 AM

Just purchase a complete system from AM Solar. They include everything required, right down to the screws and heat shrink.

Unbeatable tech support too!!!

Ask for Dave or Roger. Tell 'em I sent you. :-))

Lew Farber
RVIA/RVDA Nationally Certified Master Tech
ABYC Certified Master Marine Electrician
Master Tech Energy Systems, Inc.
AM Solar Certified Installation Center*AMS Lithium Batteries
Lifeline AGM Batteries**Magnum Inverters
541-490-6357

switz · 01-07-2016, 07:17 AM

We put a 300 amp-hour lithium iron phosphate battery immediately in front of the street side wheel well under the sofa in our 2015 23D International Serenity. It weighs 84 pounds versus over 95 pounds for the two stock Interstate batteries. Former battery box houses plastic wheel chocks and plastic stabilizer pads. BlueSky solar charge controller is just forward of the battery. The Magnum MSH-3012 hybrid inverter is just in front of the furnace along with a new main circuit breaker box and automatic transfer relay for added front generator input port. There was no loss of storage space or visible changes to the cabinetry on the street side of the trailer.

With the Magnum MSH-3012. it will supply from the battery the extra surge power needed to start the air conditioner while running a 2,000 watt generartor that can provide the necessary "run" power for the 13,500 BTU air conditioner.

There are five GS-100 100 watt solar panels on the roof. A completely new circuit breaker box replaced the factory one in the same space.

The low weight rating of the tow vehicle receiver may be the tip of the ice berg of issues. Depending on the design and if it is rated for weight distribution type hitches, the leverage forces associated with weight distribution could over stress the the tow vehicle receiver.

PM me if you have more questions.

xrvr · 01-07-2016, 08:41 AM

Any reason you don't try a WD hitch?

Eyeballs · 01-07-2016, 08:59 AM

Alright...I really appreciate all your suggestions. I guess it will come down to balancing my needs with cost and time.

Spectrum of choices.

Move batteries inside TT, upgrade to PD charger.
Pros: Easy DIY, cheaper, lowers tongue weight, aesthetically original without panels on top. Cons: Rely on generator for all charging needs

Upgrade to solar, leave batteries in box.
Pros: Boondocking freedom. Cons: Tongue weight not addressed.

Move Batteries inside TT, upgrade to Solar via AM Solar (thanks Lew)
Pros: Boondocking freedom, lower tongue weight. Cons: Higher cost, will need to find help but some DIY.

Go all out, Switz style...this sounds dreamy
Pros: Boondocking freedom with A/C, lower tongue weight. Cons: $$$$$, No way I'm tackling this DIY...trip to Oregon for AM solar install...?

Wish I had an AM solar around here.

So what will I do? PM Switz for some more details about his setup, spend a few more hours/days searching the forum, and finally post pics of whatever I end up doing.

Eyeballs · 01-07-2016, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by avionstream

Any reason you don't try a WD hitch?

Have a blue ox, works great, however based on a review of the Q7, toureg, cayenne ongoing discussion on airforum, will feel better with tongue weight below hitch weight.

xrvr · 01-07-2016, 01:24 PM

WD will lower your hitch weight to within specs if I read your previous posts correctly. 660 to 720 pounds. You only have to transfer sixty pounds, the bo should do this or am I way off on my thinking.?

rostam · 01-07-2016, 01:57 PM

My understanding is that the hitch receiver must be able to handle the dead weight of the trailer tongue (plus the weight of WDH gear) before engaging the WD bars.

dkottum · 01-07-2016, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rostam

My understanding is that the hitch receiver must be able to handle the dead weight of the trailer tongue (plus the weight of WDH gear) before engaging the WD bars.

If that were true we would never be able to go over a bump in the road because of the additional weight the g-force would apply to the hitch receiver. In actual use it's a mute point because we engage our weight distribution bars before releasing the tongue weight onto the hitch receiver, by raising the trailer tongue jack.