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Old 06-18-2016, 10:23 AM   #15
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Do I have a WFCO inverter

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Originally Posted by ghaynes755 View Post
Good Progressive Dynamics products like the PD-4655. Direct replacement. Slide in and most folks can do it themselves. Better/Best one of the Magnum Inverter/Chargers. Dump the WFCO inverter (if you have one) and get the much better and more powerful Magnum.
Forgive my ignorance of what I just recently purchased...a 2016 Flying Cloud 19'...but I would like the long term assurance of a stable battery current supply. Can anyone tell me whether I have the 'bad' inverter/charger and where it might be located in my front dinette/rear bedroom model? Would it be reasonably easy for a non-EE degree-holder to replace?

Many thanks in advance for the 'informational energy supply' provided 24 hours a day by the Air Forum! .
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Old 06-18-2016, 10:32 AM   #16
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Watch your water levels too, you dont want to find this mess in your battery box
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Old 06-18-2016, 10:36 AM   #17
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Please don't give improper information even if it is just an opinion on a 70 day old trailer..
Take a deep breath Rarestream. Not everyone's experience is the same.

In my 2007, the original batteries lasted 7 years, using the stock converter. No, I didn't leave it plugged in for months at a time while in storage, but when traveling for 2-3 months at time I never used the store more. Granted, I never stayed in one site for more than a week or so, but a week or so falls into the definition of "any length of time".

I too agree that your batteries will eventually fail. Everything eventually fails.

If my stock converter fails while I own it, I would put in a PD or whatever the latest and greatest is at that time. But I don't see the need to toss a converter that's currently (Ha!) meeting my needs.
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Old 06-18-2016, 04:47 PM   #18
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24v system

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Originally Posted by Clozzzer View Post
What would be the advantage of going 24 volts?
It can output 4000 Watts vs. the 3000 W of the 12V system. Just depends what you're needs are. Personally I would stick with 12V.
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Old 06-18-2016, 05:09 PM   #19
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I emailed Magnum because it is a project on my wish list as well. They recommended a MSH3012M with the current 12V battery bank or MSH4024M if I wanted to add more batteries and go to a 24V battery bank.

Didn't give me a lot of detail other than send the manuals and recommend a service center in the area.
So let me get this right..............

Magnum recommended that you use the MSH-3012M for your 12VDC battery bank. You did not specify in your post how large the battery bank is and what type of batteries your have. If you are using Airstream's stock offering of a pair of Interstate Group 24 liquid lead acid batteries, the MSH-3012M will deplete them in the blink of an eye with any significant load applied to them.

All lead acid batteries are subject to Peukert losses and you should get very familiar with the results of that.

And the MSH-4024M????????? Yes, it will work on a 24 volt battery system and provide you with 4000 watts of 120VAC power, but EVERYTHING ELSE in your trailer operates on 12VDC. How do you propose to reduce the DC voltage so it is applicable to all of your other components??????? It is very do-able, as high-end motor homes like Newell and Prevost do it on all of their coaches as they run 24VDC battery banks made up of 6-8 Lifeline 8D batteries that can total up to 1000 amp/hours @24VDC, but its is not an inexpensive undertaking, nor one for a DIY with limited experience.

If you are looking for a really large 120VAC output from a 12VDC inverter/charger, I would look at the Victron 12/5000/200-100/100 unit. It operates from a 12VDC battery bank and will give you 5000 watts of continuous AC power but again remember............ drawing that much amperage from a standard sized battery bank will deplete it almost in the time it takes you to look at your monitor screen!!!
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Old 06-18-2016, 11:03 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by lewster View Post
So let me get this right..............

Magnum recommended that you use the MSH-3012M for your 12VDC battery bank. You did not specify in your post how large the battery bank is and what type of batteries your have. If you are using Airstream's stock offering of a pair of Interstate Group 24 liquid lead acid batteries, the MSH-3012M will deplete them in the blink of an eye with any significant load applied to them.

All lead acid batteries are subject to Peukert losses and you should get very familiar with the results of that.

And the MSH-4024M????????? Yes, it will work on a 24 volt battery system and provide you with 4000 watts of 120VAC power, but EVERYTHING ELSE in your trailer operates on 12VDC. How do you propose to reduce the DC voltage so it is applicable to all of your other components??????? It is very do-able, as high-end motor homes like Newell and Prevost do it on all of their coaches as they run 24VDC battery banks made up of 6-8 Lifeline 8D batteries that can total up to 1000 amp/hours @24VDC, but its is not an inexpensive undertaking, nor one for a DIY with limited experience.

If you are looking for a really large 120VAC output from a 12VDC inverter/charger, I would look at the Victron 12/5000/200-100/100 unit. It operates from a 12VDC battery bank and will give you 5000 watts of continuous AC power but again remember............ drawing that much amperage from a standard sized battery bank will deplete it almost in the time it takes you to look at your monitor screen!!!
Yes, I told them what I had for a Bayreuth bank and that I had two A/C units with 50A service. Just relating what they recommended. I don't plan on going with a Magnum because quite frankly, I don't want to put $2k into the charging system. If you have a problem with what I posted, I suggest you take it up with Magnum. I was just paying the info along to the OP.
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Old 06-22-2016, 09:55 AM   #21
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Why the 9280 rather than the 9260, or 9270? If 55 amps charging capacity was good enough from the factory, what are the benefits of going to 80A? Would the larger size require up sizing any of the wires/cables?

Are these models compatible with the factory solar system and gel cell batteries that I hear prefer slightly different charging voltages than the lead-acid batteries that are used without the solar system?

Given that our less than one year old factory Convertor/Charger just failed on our most recent trip with our 2016 Classic with 50A service and factory 100W solar system, and our warranty replacement visit to the Airstream Factory Service Center is about a month off, I am wondering if we should use this opportunity to upgrade to a multi-state charger instead.

I am hoping for a simple do-it-yourself replacement if possible for someone who is reasonably handy. Do these fit that desire?
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Old 06-22-2016, 03:10 PM   #22
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Yes, these are all compatible with AGM/gel cell batteries and the factory solar system.

The advantage of the 80 amp 9280 is that it will charge depleted batteries much faster. Yes, you should have adequate 12v and ground cable for this instance, but in my trailer the factory wiring was more than sufficient. Remember, the full 80 amps of current will NOT be drawn under normal circumstances until it is NEEDED; i.e., recharging massively depleted batteries or a very large 12v load. It is probably overkill, but I've never even had the fan come on in either of my trailers, both of which have the 80 amp units. However, the 80 amp unit is not usually a direct simple swap out; some of the other models are very simple plug/play/direct fit replacements that are much, much more simple to install. I simply chose overkill over ease of installation-but that is your choice to make. You can't really go wrong with any of the Intellipower units. The factory unit is a true piece of embarrassing unworthy bison scat.
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Old 06-23-2016, 07:09 PM   #23
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Thanks RareStream,
I've been doing a lot of reading since my last post. It seems that Progressive Dynamics, PowerMax (Boondocker), Iota, and Xantrex all have their plus's and minus's when comparing dimensions, modes, voltage levels, etc. None seem a perfect match for the info I found about charging Lifeline batteries on their web site. I might take some time to make a decision.
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Old 06-23-2016, 10:35 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by 66Overlander View Post
Thanks RareStream,
I've been doing a lot of reading since my last post. It seems that Progressive Dynamics, PowerMax (Boondocker), Iota, and Xantrex all have their plus's and minus's when comparing dimensions, modes, voltage levels, etc. None seem a perfect match for the info I found about charging Lifeline batteries on their web site. I might take some time to make a decision.
These are all compromise chargers and NONE of them have temperature compensation to regulate the level of charging voltage.

The best alternative is to use a Magnum MMS-1012 for the fully programmable charging section along with their temperature sensor or go to the new Victron Centaur charging system and their BMS-700 battery monitor system.

Either will be light years ahead of any converter available.
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Old 06-25-2016, 08:59 PM   #25
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These are all compromise chargers and NONE of them have temperature compensation to regulate the level of charging voltage.

The best alternative is to use a Magnum MMS-1012 for the fully programmable charging section along with their temperature sensor or go to the new Victron Centaur charging system and their BMS-700 battery monitor system.

Either will be light years ahead of any converter available.
I understand, but some of us don't need an ultimate boondocking package. But, if I upgrade the charger, I might just move it to under the front couch near the batteries, as it was for decades until recent years. That would solve the issue of voltage drop in the long 6awg positive and negative cables from the mid trailer charger to the tongue mounted batteries and it would make adding a battery temp sensor easier.

I am hearing that Airstream moved the charger to this position on the 2017 Classics, finally correcting one of their previous design mistakes.

In any case, I think the short term answer is just to have the original charger repaired or replaced under warranty and then take my time determining the best long term solution.
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Old 06-25-2016, 11:01 PM   #26
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I understand, but some of us don't need an ultimate boondocking package. But, if I upgrade the charger, I might just move it to under the front couch near the batteries, as it was for decades until recent years. That would solve the issue of voltage drop in the long 6awg positive and negative cables from the mid trailer charger to the tongue mounted batteries and it would make adding a battery temp sensor easier.
I am there with you Joe. Magnum is nice but I just can't justify dropping $1000 - $2000+ for a converter. I do wish Airstream would have left the charger up front by the batteries instead of putting it mid-cabin. They put the inverter up front on my 2014 Classic but the converter is mid-cabin...makes no sense.

My plan is to put in a Progressive Dynamics PD4655 as a direct replacement for my Parallax 7355. I leave my unit plugged in most of the time so I want a multi-stage charging unit that won't cook my batteries. Just put in a pair of new Group 27 Interstate batteries and would like them to last more than 2 years.
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Old 06-26-2016, 12:02 AM   #27
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Forgive my ignorance of what I just recently purchased...a 2016 Flying Cloud 19'...but I would like the long term assurance of a stable battery current supply. Can anyone tell me whether I have the 'bad' inverter/charger and where it might be located in my front dinette/rear bedroom model? Would it be reasonably easy for a non-EE degree-holder to replace?

Many thanks in advance for the 'informational energy supply' provided 24 hours a day by the Air Forum! .
Bob,

I owned a 19 International CCD for 6 years. You don't have a lot of usable space for upgrades, but there is room under the dinette where your water tank is located and also in front of the storage drawer on the curb side.

In fact, I have an installation starting Monday for a 200 amp/hour Victron lithium battery bank, Victron 2000VA hybrid sine wave inverter/charger and 200-300 watts of solar with Victron solar charge controller and monitoring systems. It will be a squeeze but everything will fit nicely!

Your unit has the dreaded Parallax single voltage converter (AKA battery burner) and the WFCO 1000 watt inverter. If you are serious about upgrading your electrical capacities with an eye on boondocking, there are many ways to achieve this.

Some folks seem to get extended battery life from the OEM Airstream converters, but I have a regular stack of dead Interstate batteries from new or fairly new trailers that prove otherwise. In addition, anyone with any training in how batteries should be charged will tell you that a continual voltage of 13.6VDC will neither fully charge your batteries nor will it allow them to float once full (if they ever reach that state).

Most liquid cell batteries require a bulk/absorb charge level of up to 14.8VDC and a float charge of 13.2-13.4VDC. AGM batteries are lower at 14.2-14.4VDC for bulk/absorb and float of 13.2VDC. These numbers are direct from the manufacturers' specifications and charging requirements.

This results from a Parallax single voltage charger are either chronic under or overcharging and is the primary reason for the death of the Interstate batteries (coupled with the simple fact that they are near junk status even when new!).

What you put into your 19 depends entirely on how you intend to use it.
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Old 06-26-2016, 12:12 AM   #28
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Bob,

I owned a 19 International CCD for 6 years.

What you put into your 19 depends entirely on how you intend to use it.
Here is a picture of a Progressive Dynamics 9280 mounted in the factory location on a 19ft Bambi:

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