Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-14-2019, 07:57 PM   #1
New Member
 
2018 27' International
League City , Texas
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 3
Unexpected electrical issue

I had an unexpected situation happen with the 12V system on my 2018 27FB and looking for some advice. I always store my TT with the battery disconnect in the Store position. After the last time I used the TT, I had also used the factory installed Inverter and have accidentally left it on when storing but without any 110 power draw. So the TT was in storage with the Inverter in the On position but the battery disconnect in the Store position. Also, I did not have any 110 power to the TT for charging at this time. I have always thought that the Store position would disconnect all but just the Carbon Monoxide sensor from drawing any power. However, after four days I checked on the TT and saw that the battery voltage was at 10.8; Death! I then saw that the Inverter was left on and now believe that the Inverter still draws power from the battery even in the Store position. Is this true? Any advise on how I can revive the battery? I quickly put the charger on them and will wait a few days to see what happens. Hopefully, they will still be usable.
__________________

Bright67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2019, 08:05 PM   #2
Overkill Specialist
 
GMFL's Avatar

 
2014 23' International
Dadeville , Alabama
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 3,302
Images: 4
Blog Entries: 49
This is quite possibly correct. The inverter is a potentially very large load pulling way more power than the inline 30 amp thermal fuse on the positive buss bar “post” (use/store) solenoid. Therefore the inverter would be connected on the battery side of the solenoid “pre” the positive buss bar. This would mean that the (use/store) switch would NOT disconnect the inverter.
__________________

GMFL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2019, 08:11 PM   #3
Rivets?
 
nvestysly's Avatar

 
1992 29' Excella
2010 22' Interstate
Van By The River , Georgia
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,879
Your battery may recover to some extent. Only time will tell. After charging the battery do your own test by using 12V or the inverter and see how long the battery lasts. Is it normal? Or, does it seem to drain down more quickly than usual?

I'm not an expert on the "store" switch nor the inverter on your trailer. But I had a similar situation on our 2010 Interstate van. Even with the inverter off the batteries would drain in less than a week.

I became frustrated with the situation in our van and installed a manual battery disconnect switch on the positive lead from the batteries. When that manual switch is off there's no way for any parasitic/unknown draw from the batteries. I don't know why Airstream doesn't do something similar - maybe legal reasons. With the manual disconnect the van can be stored for many weeks with little drain on the batteries.
__________________
Lucius and Danielle
1992 29' Excella Classic
2005 Chevrolet Suburban K2500 8.1L
2018 GMC Sierra K1500 SLT, 6.2L, Max Trailering
Got a cooped-up feeling, gotta get out of town, got those Airstream campin' blues...
nvestysly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2019, 08:30 AM   #4
1 Rivet Member
 
2020 25' Flying Cloud
Alexandria , Minnesota
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 17
I also have a battery issue on a new 2020 AS25. I left camp under 2 days of shore power , battery reading was at 100%. Driving 10 hours and setting up camp battery was at 50%. Nothing was on in the TT. ( And even if was would have been on wouldn't the tow vehicle have provide the necessary charge?) At home I pulled the batteries and charged them to 100% and 13.7 V , so batteries are good with no cell issues. Question is, what could be causing this drain? I can find nothing in the AS owner's manual on this nor anything on battery disconnect. I do believe a total disconnect switch is very beneficial and I'll install one this Spring. I live 2-1/2 hours from a AS dealer so I'll tow it in under warranty this Spring drain issue. I would like to fix this myself so if anyone has any ideas I'd like to hear them?? Thanks.
cicho69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2019, 09:16 AM   #5
Rivet Master
 
richw46's Avatar
 
2006 23' Safari SE
Lexington , Kentucky
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,513
Images: 6
Pretty sure inverters are wired directly to the batteries because of their potential high amperage draw. There is an inline fuse (a pretty expensive fuse) and internal fuses to protect them, If nothing is plugged in there is still a draw from the fan and the available AC. Being "on" for 2 days would bring the batteries down. Taking them down to below 11 volts would be a deep cycle and deep cycle batteries are built for this. You should be able to charge them up again.
__________________
-Rich

Rich & Yvonne
2006 Safari SE -Dora-
2004 4Runner SE

richw46 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2019, 09:17 AM   #6
Rivet Master
 
lsbrodsky's Avatar

 
2012 25' FB International
Trent Woods , North Carolina
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 2,233
First of all, how are you measuring battery condition? With the built-in monitor? That only measures voltage and unless you had them rest at no load/no charge a while before looking at %, your reading may not be accurate. Your batteries could have been down before heading off.
Second, when you said nothing was on, was your switch in the Store position? That would get almost everything, except the above mentioned inverter and your propane detector.
When you pulled and charged the batteries at home, how long had they been resting before you measured 13.7?
As for charging, measure voltage at your truck socket to be sure your have voltage.
Anyhow, I would always suspect the batteries first. If not, you will have to look for a load that is on.
Larry
lsbrodsky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2019, 09:21 AM   #7
Rivet Master
 
richw46's Avatar
 
2006 23' Safari SE
Lexington , Kentucky
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,513
Images: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by cicho69 View Post
I also have a battery issue on a new 2020 AS25. I left camp under 2 days of shore power , battery reading was at 100%. Driving 10 hours and setting up camp battery was at 50%. Nothing was on in the TT. ( And even if was would have been on wouldn't the tow vehicle have provide the necessary charge?) At home I pulled the batteries and charged them to 100% and 13.7 V , so batteries are good with no cell issues. Question is, what could be causing this drain? I can find nothing in the AS owner's manual on this nor anything on battery disconnect. I do believe a total disconnect switch is very beneficial and I'll install one this Spring. I live 2-1/2 hours from a AS dealer so I'll tow it in under warranty this Spring drain issue. I would like to fix this myself so if anyone has any ideas I'd like to hear them?? Thanks.

I'm not familiar with the setup on the newer models, but do you have a 3-way fridge? If so, was it running from the inverter or on propane? The fridge will draw 12v for the circuit board and igniter, even on propane. If the TV is set up to charge while running then that wouldn't be a problem. If the fridge was running on AC then your TV probably wouldn't be able to keep up with the draw.
__________________
-Rich

Rich & Yvonne
2006 Safari SE -Dora-
2004 4Runner SE

richw46 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2019, 01:18 PM   #8
1 Rivet Member
 
2018 28' International
League City , Texas
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright67 View Post
I had an unexpected situation happen with the 12V system on my 2018 27FB and looking for some advice. I always store my TT with the battery disconnect in the Store position. After the last time I used the TT, I had also used the factory installed Inverter and have accidentally left it on when storing but without any 110 power draw. So the TT was in storage with the Inverter in the On position but the battery disconnect in the Store position. Also, I did not have any 110 power to the TT for charging at this time. I have always thought that the Store position would disconnect all but just the Carbon Monoxide sensor from drawing any power. However, after four days I checked on the TT and saw that the battery voltage was at 10.8; Death! I then saw that the Inverter was left on and now believe that the Inverter still draws power from the battery even in the Store position. Is this true? Any advise on how I can revive the battery? I quickly put the charger on them and will wait a few days to see what happens. Hopefully, they will still be usable.
I’m happy to report that my batteries are fine after a full charge. I also confirmed what many of you said, that the inverter will stay on when in the battery disconnect Store position. One more thing to add to my check off list. Thank you all for your input.
Bnbright62 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2019, 01:58 PM   #9
3rd one is the charm?
 
pcskier's Avatar

 
2014 23' Flying Cloud
Park City , Utah
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,440
Quote:
Originally Posted by cicho69 View Post
At home I pulled the batteries and charged them to 100% and 13.7 V , so batteries are good with no cell issues. .
Rested batteries (assuming flooded Interstates) will have a resting voltage of approx 12.8V. The 13.7 you measured was surface charge immediately after charging (your charger was providing that voltage.) Batteries need to rest awhile (20 minutes? An hour? That can vary if you put a small load on them for a short time to remove surface charge).

All that aside, getting them fully charged does not necessarily indicate all is good. They can show 12.8 volts but tank very quickly under load. To truly check the cells, get a specific gravity hydrometer from Walmart for $10 and measure each cell (after a full charge). Your batteries can show a 'full charge' on a meter right after charging even with a bad cell in each of them. Run the furnace and they will crap out in no time at all.

Also, a load test at an auto parts store can determine the true health.
pcskier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2019, 06:53 AM   #10
1 Rivet Member
 
2020 25' Flying Cloud
Alexandria , Minnesota
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 17
Thanks, for this info.
(They are Lifeline AGM batteries.)
I did not know that that voltage would be different from recent charge to rest state. Rest state was measured @12.7-12.8 v.
Will take into NAPA this week for testing.
cicho69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2019, 08:55 AM   #11
Rivet Master
 
Mollysdad's Avatar
 
2017 26' Flying Cloud
Tampa , Florida
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 3,968
I think a lot of folks are confused about the use/store switch. I'm a firm believer in a real battery disconnect.
Here's mine. Position 1 supplies power to the converter, while position 2 supplies power to the inverter. Both powers...er, both.
Mollysdad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2019, 09:01 AM   #12
1 Rivet Member
 
2020 25' Flying Cloud
Alexandria , Minnesota
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by lsbrodsky View Post
First of all, how are you measuring battery condition? With the built-in monitor? That only measures voltage and unless you had them rest at no load/no charge a while before looking at %, your reading may not be accurate. Your batteries could have been down before heading off.
Second, when you said nothing was on, was your switch in the Store position? That would get almost everything, except the above mentioned inverter and your propane detector.
When you pulled and charged the batteries at home, how long had they been resting before you measured 13.7?
As for charging, measure voltage at your truck socket to be sure your have voltage.
Anyhow, I would always suspect the batteries first. If not, you will have to look for a load that is on.
Larry
My switch was in the "store position".
I also have a solar panel so somewhere I'm exceeding that supply plus the tow vehicle's.
Questions:
Aren't all inverter outlets limited/ labeled in the TT? In other words the fridge wouldn't be on that circuit. The inverter has a switch so it's amp draw would only be "on" when activated? My fridge only uses 12v for control otherwise it's propane or 110v, so real amp draw there. CO detectors and such draw very little amps. Does the converter use amperage all of the time? All lights were off inside and out on the unit and are LED so low amp draw even if left on. I'm drawing a fair amount of amps here and it's not making sense.
cicho69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2019, 09:05 AM   #13
1 Rivet Member
 
2020 25' Flying Cloud
Alexandria , Minnesota
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mollysdad View Post
I think a lot of folks are confused about the use/store switch. I'm a firm believer in a real battery disconnect.
Here's mine. Position 1 supplies power to the converter, while position 2 supplies power to the inverter. Both powers...er, both.
I agree in a total disconnect. Wonder why AS doesn't use them??
Question? If an inverter has a switch why do you need another?
cicho69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2019, 09:40 AM   #14
Half a Rivet Short
 
2017 30' Classic
Carlisle , Pennsylvania
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 8,405
Hi

The use / store switch is *not* a battery disconnect. It simply takes out some of the loads from the battery. With a full disconnect you can store for months without impact on the battery. The use / store switch in the "store" position is good for a few weeks at best.

Bob
uncle_bob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2019, 09:59 AM   #15
Rivet Master
 
richw46's Avatar
 
2006 23' Safari SE
Lexington , Kentucky
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,513
Images: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by cicho69 View Post
My switch was in the "store position".
I also have a solar panel so somewhere I'm exceeding that supply plus the tow vehicle's.
Questions:
Aren't all inverter outlets limited/ labeled in the TT? In other words the fridge wouldn't be on that circuit. The inverter has a switch so it's amp draw would only be "on" when activated? My fridge only uses 12v for control otherwise it's propane or 110v, so real amp draw there. CO detectors and such draw very little amps. Does the converter use amperage all of the time? All lights were off inside and out on the unit and are LED so low amp draw even if left on. I'm drawing a fair amount of amps here and it's not making sense.
Yes, the inverter is on a switch, mine is in the galley above the counter. If it's off then it's not providing any AC or drawing anything from the battery. If you're running on propane when traveling then the fridge needs a small amount of power from the batteries for the control board, but nothing that would run the batteries to 50% in a few hours. You definitely have something drawing power. I have a light on my tongue pedestal. If you have one, make sure it's off. Mine is still incandescent, not LED.

Does yours have tank heaters for the gray and black tanks? Mine has switches by the vanity sink, make sure those are off. My wife thought those were for the water heater when we first got our AS.

Here's what I would do. I'd put the Use/Store in Store, then I'd start to pull fuses and listen for anything to shut down. Or you can disconnect the negative battery cable and you should see a decent spark if something is still drawing power.
__________________
-Rich

Rich & Yvonne
2006 Safari SE -Dora-
2004 4Runner SE

richw46 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2019, 10:26 AM   #16
Rivet Master
 
lsbrodsky's Avatar

 
2012 25' FB International
Trent Woods , North Carolina
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 2,233
another thought, grasping at straws. You said you drove 10 hours and when setting up camp the battery was at 50%. I assume you were using the stock monitor which is just voltage. What had you done just before seeing 50%? Had you just operated your tongue jack? was your TV still connected to the trailer? Lead-Acid batteries will show a significant drop in voltage in use and, again, after rest will recover to some higher level. Did you check that voltage again after 30 minutes to an hour? Probably not, because you were connected to shore power. Maybe you really did not drop to 50%???
I am having trouble thinking of any load that would be be on in a trailer in the store position, inverter OFF, that would take 80 amp-hours out of the batteries in 10 hours...that is an 8 amp DC load and there isn't anything. Also, is everything OK with your truck alternator/charging system? Your trailer batteries will back feed the truck when connected if the truck alternator is fubar.
Larry
lsbrodsky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2019, 07:41 AM   #17
1 Rivet Member
 
2020 25' Flying Cloud
Alexandria , Minnesota
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by lsbrodsky View Post
another thought, grasping at straws. You said you drove 10 hours and when setting up camp the battery was at 50%. I assume you were using the stock monitor which is just voltage. What had you done just before seeing 50%? Had you just operated your tongue jack? was your TV still connected to the trailer? Lead-Acid batteries will show a significant drop in voltage in use and, again, after rest will recover to some higher level. Did you check that voltage again after 30 minutes to an hour? Probably not, because you were connected to shore power. Maybe you really did not drop to 50%???
I am having trouble thinking of any load that would be be on in a trailer in the store position, inverter OFF, that would take 80 amp-hours out of the batteries in 10 hours...that is an 8 amp DC load and there isn't anything. Also, is everything OK with your truck alternator/charging system? Your trailer batteries will back feed the truck when connected if the truck alternator is fubar.
Larry
My monitor has a reading for battery voltage, % remaining, solar, charge, etc. It read 50%. My home charger ( a digital higher quality one, confirmed the on board monitor) also read the 50%. Voltages readings were also consistent between the two. I did check the jack light, a front interior storage hatch light and all I could think of...nothing found. I did nothing that would have drawn any significant amperage.Good idea the check the truck, will do that. Going to NAPA this morning for a battery check. Thanks for your ideas/help!
cicho69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2019, 07:49 AM   #18
1 Rivet Member
 
2020 25' Flying Cloud
Alexandria , Minnesota
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by richw46 View Post
Yes, the inverter is on a switch, mine is in the galley above the counter. If it's off then it's not providing any AC or drawing anything from the battery. If you're running on propane when traveling then the fridge needs a small amount of power from the batteries for the control board, but nothing that would run the batteries to 50% in a few hours. You definitely have something drawing power. I have a light on my tongue pedestal. If you have one, make sure it's off. Mine is still incandescent, not LED.

Does yours have tank heaters for the gray and black tanks? Mine has switches by the vanity sink, make sure those are off. My wife thought those were for the water heater when we first got our AS.

Here's what I would do. I'd put the Use/Store in Store, then I'd start to pull fuses and listen for anything to shut down. Or you can disconnect the negative battery cable and you should see a decent spark if something is still drawing power.
I will try your ideas , thanks.
There are switches by the entrance/sink that run exterior lights and another that I'm not sure what?? (Awning LEDS??) I didn't lower the awning to confirm and the AS manual has no info as far as tank heaters on my unit???
cicho69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2019, 03:40 PM   #19
Rivet Master
 
richw46's Avatar
 
2006 23' Safari SE
Lexington , Kentucky
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,513
Images: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by cicho69 View Post
I will try your ideas , thanks.
There are switches by the entrance/sink that run exterior lights and another that I'm not sure what?? (Awning LEDS??) I didn't lower the awning to confirm and the AS manual has no info as far as tank heaters on my unit???
With heated air going though the duct work, the ducts probably go through or near the holding tanks to keep them warm. Mine is a 2006 and there have been many changes since then.

I'm really puzzled as to what the draw could be. I wish you luck in your search. Start pulling fuses.
__________________
-Rich

Rich & Yvonne
2006 Safari SE -Dora-
2004 4Runner SE

richw46 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2019, 06:12 PM   #20
3 Rivet Member
 
rp709's Avatar
 
2015 30' Flying Cloud
Ventura , California
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 154
Images: 5
Inverter draw

The battery on off switch inside the trailer disconnects all 12volt electrical loads that are routed through this battery bus. Most 12v items in an Airstream are connected to this bus. The on off switch operates a relay that has a high current shunt at the trailer main battery bus. ( This is why the switch will stay in the position it was in when the battery is disconnected).As you mentioned, the propane detector is wired directly to the hot battery bus and draws current all the time. This is required by law. The inverter draws more current than any item on the 12 volt buss and has to connect directly to the hot battery bus. It is protected by a fuse. The inverter will draw close to 1 amp at all times, so that it is energized when the load switch is turned on. When the inverter is switched on, the current draw will increase by the amount of 110volt loads present. In order to store the trailer so that there is no draw on the battery, you must disconnect the negative battery cable at the battery. I had AM Solar install a battery shut off switch that connects to the battery before the battery bus inside the trailer. (I also installed an inverter shut off switch). This shuts off all power from the battery. (The exception would be the tongue jack which has a positive cable going directly to the battery. It, however, has no draw when not operating). The cheapest and simplest way is to disconnect the negative battery cable at the batter. But, this is not as fun!
__________________

__________________
50 AMP Dual AC
AM Solar 570 watts
2 Golf Cart 6V Batteries
2012 GMC Denali HD Duramax
Pro Pride hitch
rp709 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Expect the unexpected... CampUnger General Interior Topics 2 05-07-2012 10:45 PM
Unexpected Danger on the Road overlander64 On The Road... 23 07-09-2011 10:16 PM
We're back - unexpected forums outage Janet H Forum Admin, News and Member Account Info 44 11-22-2009 10:56 PM
Unexpected opportunity? Hawkeye5 All Argosy Trailers 17 04-06-2008 08:55 PM
AIR is back from unexpected holiday break! Janet H Forum Admin, News and Member Account Info 11 12-26-2007 09:18 PM


Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:09 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.