Turn Signal Wire lost continuity

[woliners]

Re: 1965 Ambassador. My Right turn (brown) wire has lost continuity somewhere between the front and rear of the frame channel. (maybe chewed by a mouse) All other wires are intact. Is there a suggestion for routing a new wire inside of the frame channel from front to rear (or rear to front) , or do I have to jerry-rig something externally?

I thought that I could attach a new wire to the end of the old wire and (carefully) pull it through, but the old wire appears to be fastened inside somewhere and won't budge. Also, the body, floor, frame, and belly pan are in excellent condition and I don't really want to start cutting that stuff up.

[HowieE]

Assuming you can find the wire at the front of the trailer. The question is where can you get to the wire at the rear of the trailer other than at the fixture itself.

What I have done when wiring additional back up light is run a 1/4 in. copper or aluminum tubing under the trailer and attached as needed. Tie a note in a string and with an air gun blow the string through the tubing. Now pull the wire with the string and connect.

You may have to come up through the floor at the rear close to the wall. A few small holes in the interior skin and you should be able to fish the wire up the inside of the wall to the back of the fixture. There are several ways to cover the hole when done.

[woliners]

Yup. I have access to the wire where it enters the frame (harness at the tow hitch) and where it exits the end of the frame (at rear of camper under the tank drain-valve access hatch on rear bumper). The wire is exposed there and then goes into the skin at that point and re-emerges at the RH turn signal: I have good continuity between those points. Anyway, that kind of answers the original question. Thanks!

[dbj216]

Hi Minnesota! I installed a new 7 pin plug on my 66 Trade Wind. There is a access hatch in the belly pan at the front of the trailer along the curb side frame rail. Here is where the 7 pin plug connects to the trailer wire harness. It may be that there is a loose connection to the brown wire at this point. (Note, modern wire color convention is not the same as vintage Airstreams.)

The trailer exterior lighting and brake wires run along the curb side frame rail, and like you said, exit in the rear. It would be a challenge to pull a wire through there.

Maybe this is another place to check for an open connection.

Nice to hear your old Ambassador is in great shape. Most old trailers not so much.

David

[idroba]

Also a piece of PVC conduit from front to back, fastened to the belly pan would not be a difficult way to run a new wire or set of them if you have problems with others in the future. It would not be visible and gives you a solution which is fairly easy to do.

[woliners]

OK. I found the access hatch. Looks like mice set up shop in there. I'll let ya all know what I find. Haven't had time to dig through it yet. Anyway, the PVC conduit might be the simplest solution if I don't find anything in the hatch. By the way, the camper has never been restored, but everything is like mint inside except the frig didn't work and I added an AC. Woodwork is fantastic and the steel frame shows minimal rust. Water htr, furnace, stove, oven and belt-drive water pump are mint...even shiny. I'm pretty sure they are original. Toilet and blk water tank were gone so I found them online. Even shower/tub, sink and platform for toilet are in perfect condition. Exterior and belly pan are mint, but need polish etc. No sign of mice inside. And I just replaced the brakes. The old ones were intact, but pretty rusty. There's a bunch of antennae too, maybe TV, CB, radio....not sure. What a find huh??? Paid $3000 for it. Is that a good deal?

There is however a bullet hole that enters from the shower wall (curb side), goes through the shower curtain, enters the closet door(drvr side) and disappears into the wall inside the closet....no exit wound. So somewhere there's a bullet lodged inside my drvr side exterior wall.....cool!

[dbj216]

Wow, not very often do you find an unmolested nearly 50 year old Airstream ! I think you found a seller who wanted it gone. An old Airstream with a good frame and good shell is worth 5k anyway, and if the interior is in good shape, worth even more. Be careful of the furnace, the burners rust out. Most folks replace these old furnaces.

Glad you found the access hatch. Now you can test the 7 pin plug wiring harness to the trailer wire, and you can test the trailer wire running the length of the frame. Then you will know what to do to make the repair.

Here is a photo of the 1966 tow vehicle to trailer wiring diagram from my owners manual. It may help you.

David

[woliners]

Thanks David. The diagram is very helpful. I already see something unrelated but does explain another mystery. I figured out before hand that the camper uses the yellow wire for the brakes rather than the blue. I thought that maybe someone had switched the wires for some reason....now I know it was the original convention (at least for AS) . Like they say in the movies...."don't cut the blue wire."

Anyway, I'll get back under the trailer as soon as it quits raining. It's really crappy out right now.

later

[dbj216]

Yes, my 66 Trade Wind has yellow brake wires. The entire external trailer light wire "harness" traveled along the curb side frame rail and crawled up the back of the trailer between the skins. It was tricky to match the new 7 pin plug wire colors to the old Airstream wire colors. I labeled them at the access hatch connection junction so a future owner might have an easier time of it.

I figured the wire color diagram would be helpful. It certainly was to me.

David

[woliners]

Finally some nice weather to work in. So I opened the access hatch and there it was.....the brown wire had been chewed clear through. Thanks for the intel. I also noticed that a couple of the wires (from the plug side) showed exposed copper. So I decided to replace the entire plug and wire bundle (from hitch to access panel). I also tested the wires that go from there to the back of the trailer and found good continuity, but I can't tell if there's any bare wire along the way, so I think, for now, I'll stick with them anyway, since replacing those is a whole different ball-of-wax.

I also noticed that the steel channel frame ends, that meet under the hitch A-frame, are open and thus allow mice unfettered access to the belly pan etc. So while I had the plug and wire bundle out, I welded in a couple of 1/8" steel plates to box it all in, and then drilled a hole just large enough to run the cord bundle (with fitted grommet) through. Then I sealed the heck out of the entry point with vulkem. I also boxed in the black water tank area with 3/16" thick diamond pattern aluminum plate material (even made threaded holes for the bolts for easy access). Then I built a couple of heavy duty (bolt-on, easily removable) screen-type of structures that completely mitigate mouse entry through the external furnace and water heater vent/access areas. I can remove these when in use. And finally I added roof pipe cover vents with metal screens. Obviously, this is beyond the scope of our original discussion, but oh well. Anyway, I can't find any other entry points for mice.....if you think of anything I missed, let me know.

later

[woliners]

So it looks like the original wire diagram assumes stop lights and turn signals are separate. Also, there's no provision for backup lights....who'd want to back up a 28' trailer in the dark anyway? Me I guess, because I combined stop and turn signals and re-tasked the brake light wire (black) for backup lights. I guess I just don't have enough to do.....I think I need a hobby.

later

[dbj216]

You now have a hobby! Gee, your ambitious! Glad you found the open wire. I found the open ended frame rails under my coupler too, and I sealed them up. Mice in Airstreams are very common, and sealing off any very small access hole it the best mitigation, other than a hungry cat.

My 66 Trade Wind has back up lights. I believe they were a factory option way back then, and I think they were standard on the International trim level.

I figured you would like a nice copy of the trailer wiring diagram since you are digging into your trailer's electrical systems. It's from my 66 owners manual. The manual states it's generic for the 66 model year. It may help you some in the near future. I have the "univolt" and fuse panel wiring diagram from the same manual if you need it.

David

[mimiandrews]

Originally Posted by woliners

So it looks like the original wire diagram assumes stop lights and turn signals are separate. Also, there's no provision for backup lights....who'd want to back up a 28' trailer in the dark anyway? Me I guess, because I combined stop and turn signals and re-tasked the brake light wire (black) for backup lights. I guess I just don't have enough to do.....I think I need a hobby.

later

Could you post a diagram of how you did this? Our '66 has no backup lights, so we might do the same if yours works out.

[woliners]

Hi mimiandrews,

I tried to post my diagram but when I click on the "Insert Image" icon, it asks for a URL....what's that? I drew the diagram using power point....I don't see a URL anywhere. And it does nothing when I try to copy and paste the image.

I can fix anything, but computers are a mystery to me.

thanks

[mimiandrews]

A URL is that address that starts with www at the top of your browser. Now you have all I know about those. I have to ask my kids about computer stuff.

Can you save your Powerpoint as a jpeg or some other photo format? Then it should upload as a photo attachment.

Or, just e-mail it to me at

mimiandrews@earthlink.net

Expect a spam filter message on that e-mail address. I'll get your message, so don't worry about the filter. Not all the pictures that come by e-mail are things I want to see, so the filter is set really high.

[albert]

Hi there, can I ask a question that it appears YOU would know the answer to?
I am trying to take out my backup lights and use that spot for additional turn and brake lights. But the wiring doesnt make sense to me! I am using the same wiring for the outside lights as the inside ones, thinking that would work, but no go. The outside light stays in BRAKE mode and doesnt signal at all.

Any help would be much appreciated! Its a 1970 Ambassador.

Originally Posted by woliners

So it looks like the original wire diagram assumes stop lights and turn signals are separate. Also, there's no provision for backup lights....who'd want to back up a 28' trailer in the dark anyway? Me I guess, because I combined stop and turn signals and re-tasked the brake light wire (black) for backup lights. I guess I just don't have enough to do.....I think I need a hobby.

later

[dbj216]

Hi Albert; your trailer external lighting is powered and controlled by your tow vehicle through the umbilical cord. You can't tap into your interior 12v lights. You might be interested in modern LED tail lights as they are much brighter and safer than the old 1970 bulbs.

If you want additional tail and turn signal lights, then you need to tap into the original tail light wire and run it to your new tail light.

I found the tail-brake-turn lights on my 66 Trade Wind were not very bright, especially on a sunny day. Modern LED are much more visible, and you can lightly buy the conversion so if fits behind your original fixtures.

Maybe Woliners can answer your question better than I.

David

[woliners]

Hi Albert, Well, to begin with, David is right, the towing lights, i.e. tail (and running lights), stop, turn, and backup....all the ones that operate from your car/truck etc, are completely separate from any interior electricity....or the "living in the camper" lights. These wires are all isolated and go directly from the umbilical cord to the individual lights and to the brakes (if you are set up for that). Having said that, your system can be set up to charge the camper battery while towing. Also, in the event of the trailer coming unhitched while towing, the break away switch will connect the 12V trailer battery to the brakes and lock them up.

In researching this, I've found several wire-color conventions for the 7-pin umbilical cord configuration. Thanks to Davids post, I managed to determine how my 1965 AS was wired. Note this may be different for your camper. So here's the color convention mine used:

White=Ground
Blue=Battery Positive terminal
Green=tail and running lights
Yellow=brakes
Black=auxilliary or stop
Red=Left turn
Brown=Right turn

My camper was configured with the integrated stop and turn circuit which is what most moderns configs are.....so the black appears to be aux, or unused.

As it happens, I am replacing the "nacelles" which are the big plastic housings into which the tail light fixtures are installed (on 1965 AS anyway). Contrary to the instructions on the website, I didn't have to remove the entire interior wall to install them. I just asked myself..."What would Houdini do?" So with a little creative trimming and a little ingenuity, I was able to slip them in from the outside and rivet them in without hacking up either the interior or the exterior walls. I also found a pair of "retro-designed" LED stop/turn/tail lights that replace my old fixtures quite nicely.

So...imagine my surprise when I removed the old tail lights and found black wires connected to the metal housings of the fixtures. I checked these wires with a meter and sure enough, they were indeed ground wires, but they were in no way connected to the black aux wire (U-cord) at the front of the trailer. But I didn't see any wires that did connect to the U-cord aux. Hmmmmm.

Sooooo.....when I removed the old cracked, broken nacelles and started digging around inside the wall, I found yet another set of black wires tucked inside. And these, much to my joy, were the missing aux wires.....just waiting for something to be installed. YeeHaw! My backup lights! And since I hate disorder, I replaced the black ground wires (the impostors!) with white wires and was able to thread them down to the steel trailer frame.

Now when you assemble everything, you need to make sure it's water proof and mouse proof. Also you don't want any shorts to develop. I'm using rubber grommets where ever the wires pass through metal walls and you want to make sure the whole thing won't fall apart over time. Remember, a trailer goes through a lot of vibration while traveling.

I replaced all the rivets that I drilled out and used putty between the riveted surfaces and silicone where needed and I used Vulkem generously around the edges of the nacelles where they interface with the aluminum camper walls. My new tail lights didn't come with gaskets so I just cut a pair out of a 1/16" thick rubber sheet. Finally, I soldered all the wire connections and insulated with heat shrink wrap.

Well, That's all the news from Lake Minnetonka

[dbj216]

woliners: Interesting story on your discoveries inside the back skins of your trailer.

Here is a photo of the black wires hanging out of my 66 Trade Wind back up light holes. My trailer came with back up lights. I think they were an option.

The blue wire you mention above is indeed a 12v positive, but I believe it is the "charge wire" from the tow vehicle. It does end up at the positive battery terminal via the fuse panel. It helps keep the trailer battery charged when traveling.

David

[woliners]

My camper doesn't appear to have ever had any lights mounted where your show nor does there appear to have been any backup lights were I believe they would have been on this model. The nacelles on the 1965 were kind of a thin plastic wedge shaped structure (new replacement ones are much thicker, thank God), each has 2 spaces (sort of an indentation), one for the 5" round stop/turn/tail light and another 3-1/4" round indentation, no doubt reserved for backup lights.

The spaces for the stop/turn/tail had been drilled out to allow for the wire connections. On the other hand, the spaces for the backup lights were not drilled out, nor were there any residual mounting screw holes, confirming that this particular camper never had backup lights installed.

These "virgin" indentations plus the fact that the black wires were stuffed neatly inside the wall suggest that backup lights were probably optional for this model as well but the purchaser opted out. I'm guessing that this type of operation was done by the dealer rather than at the factory.

Further, the auxiliary wire (if not used for backup) could have also served as a spare in case one of the primary wires shorted out or broke. Like in-home land line telephones wires, they have 4 wires, but only 2 are ever used. the other pair are just for that reason.

I'm speculating here, but the first job I ever had was working at a Winnebago dealer and all the campers and motorhomes came in partially finished and we installed all kinds of stuff to fill custom orders. I also did all kinds of repair and modifications to older campers too. I recall that there were always spare wires in the walls in case we stuck a screw or staple through one of the primaries. I never did any work on an AS but I'm guessing they had a similar system or thought process.

Wow, I was 13 at the time. I thought it was really cool to have a job and my own money in Jr. high school. Now days they'd say I was exploited and abused in some sort of sweat-shop. And oh how my self esteem must have suffered. Oh well...I liked the money!

later