Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 02-17-2017, 11:29 PM   #1
1 Rivet Member
 
1976 Argosy 28
Atlanta , Georgia
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 17
Splicing 12 AWG to 14 AWG question - help

Need some advise on a wiring question. I have all panels off and all wiring is completely exposed. I have moved my battery from the original location. They are now in front of my 28 foot Argosy. I have (4) - 6 Volt batteries ran in series and parallel to make a 12 Volt. Solar is in the mix and is currently charging battery bank.

I have a new Boondocker BD 1245C (45 Amp 4-Stage Converter/Charger) and a new 9 Position DC Fuse Panel. I understand how to hook that up.

Currently, nothing is connected to the 12 volt wires. No lights, other that my new porch light with a switch. That is it.

Question: I have located and traced the original 12 volt wires that are running down where the old battery used to be located. 4 wires. purple, pink, yellow, and of course white (ground wire) I am assuming it's 14 AWG wiring.

However, I want to splice the wire from where it is now, and run it to the new location of the battery. Because of distance, if I splice 12 AWG to 14 AWG (with the 12 running into the fuse box with a 15 amp fuse) I also want to splice more LED lights in the current 4 wires. Will this be ok? AND am I sound in my thinking?

We will be running all LED lights. Except for the pump and the "scare light". Even the porch light over the door will be LED.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2495.jpg
Views:	95
Size:	235.3 KB
ID:	280008  
__________________

nocmanus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2017, 12:58 AM   #2
Rivet Master
 
2014 20' Flying Cloud
Long Island , New York
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 11,556
Forgive what may be a dumb question from a lay person, but why leave the #14 AWG in place. Won't it become a restriction in the line, even if you splice #12 to it? I would rip out all the #14 and put in #12 everywhere (assuming that is the correct size for the intended use).

Or maybe I am missing something?

Peter

PS -- You say "assuming" it is #14. Isn't the size stamped on the wire sheathing?
__________________

OTRA15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2017, 07:37 AM   #3
4 Rivet Member
 
fran&frank's Avatar
 
2016 27' Flying Cloud
Hartsburg , Missouri
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 308
So just to be clear what you are doing-- you want to leave the original 14 gauge in place and to extend the lines to the new location of your fuse box and batteries with 12 gauge? I assume your logic is the original wire was 14 gauge, you reduced the load by going to LED lights, so extending the lines some with 12 gauge should be fine. I think that is probably an OK assumption assuming you don't want to rewire the whole circuit. But of course the only way to be sure is to measure or add up the anticipated load and the length of the circuit and look up the recommended wire gauge.--Frank
__________________
Frank & Fran
2016 27' FC FB with 400 W solar
2016 Ford F150 EcoBoost
Equalizer Hitch
fran&frank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2017, 08:40 AM   #4
Rivet Master
 
HowieE's Avatar
 
1991 34' Excella
Princeton , New Jersey
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,033
Images: 12
As long as you Fuse to the Smaller wire it is fine. While some of the original fuses may be of low amperage for a give circuit you are limited by wire size. check for the maximum fuse value that can be used with #14 wire and don't exceed that on any circuit.
__________________
WBCCI 12156 AIR 3144 WACHUNG TAC NJ6
2004 Excursion 4x4
1991 34 ft. Excella +220,000 miles, new laminated flooring, new upholstery, new 3200 lbs axles

HowieE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2017, 08:47 AM   #5
Rivet Master
 
1976 31' Sovereign
Oswego , Illinois
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,685
Blog Entries: 1
Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by HowieE View Post
As long as you Fuse to the Smaller wire it is fine. While some of the original fuses may be of low amperage for a give circuit you are limited by wire size. check for the maximum fuse value that can be used with #14 wire and don't exceed that on any circuit.
I'm not a electrician but my understanding is #14 gauge wire max fuse is 15 amp and #12 gauge is 20 amps. If you splice #14 and #12 together max fuse would be 15 amps as still smaller wire in circuit, so #14 and #12 wire together would be waste of time and money
featherbedder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2017, 09:11 AM   #6
Rivet Master
 
HowieE's Avatar
 
1991 34' Excella
Princeton , New Jersey
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,033
Images: 12
That is correct. Stay with or below 15 amp fuses.
__________________
WBCCI 12156 AIR 3144 WACHUNG TAC NJ6
2004 Excursion 4x4
1991 34 ft. Excella +220,000 miles, new laminated flooring, new upholstery, new 3200 lbs axles

HowieE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2017, 09:41 AM   #7
Rivet Master
 
Mollysdad's Avatar
 
2017 26' Flying Cloud
Tampa , Florida
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 3,967
Quote:
Originally Posted by fran&frank View Post
I assume your logic is the original wire was 14 gauge, you reduced the load by going to LED lights, so extending the lines some with 12 gauge should be fine.
Just so we all agree, 12 ga. is larger that 14 ga.
If the manufacturer calculated that 14 ga. was adequate, then 12ga. doesn't gain you much. However, whatever I used, I'd get wire from the marine industry, Stranded and tinned. Corrosion resistant and able to withstand vibration.
Mollysdad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2017, 11:25 AM   #8
4 Rivet Member
 
fran&frank's Avatar
 
2016 27' Flying Cloud
Hartsburg , Missouri
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 308
As indicated you need to size the fuse for the 14 gauge wire but extending the lines with 12 gauge might reduce the voltage drop, but that might not be an issue if its a short run anyway.
__________________
Frank & Fran
2016 27' FC FB with 400 W solar
2016 Ford F150 EcoBoost
Equalizer Hitch
fran&frank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2017, 01:10 PM   #9
Rivet Master
 
2015 25' Flying Cloud
2016 30' Flying Cloud
Blenheim Ontario , Ontario
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 1,263
Quote:
Originally Posted by featherbedder View Post
I'm not a electrician but my understanding is #14 gauge wire max fuse is 15 amp and #12 gauge is 20 amps. If you splice #14 and #12 together max fuse would be 15 amps as still smaller wire in circuit, so #14 and #12 wire together would be waste of time and money
Isn't 12 ga. max of 30 Amp?
My 30' FC is 30 Amp, with 12 ga. power cord.
( I would like to have 10 ga. cords to limit line loss over a longer run; but Jeez, they're heavy, and not readily available.)
14 ga. is max 20 amp, but fusing at 15 is very good.
MelGoddard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2017, 01:14 PM   #10
1 Rivet Member
 
1976 Argosy 28
Atlanta , Georgia
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by OTRA15 View Post
Forgive what may be a dumb question from a lay person, but why leave the #14 AWG in place. Won't it become a restriction in the line, even if you splice #12 to it? I would rip out all the #14 and put in #12 everywhere (assuming that is the correct size for the intended use).

Or maybe I am missing something?

Peter

PS -- You say "assuming" it is #14. Isn't the size stamped on the wire sheathing?
I'm leaving it in because there is nothing wrong with it. It has soldered connections and is in good shape. My thinking was if it wasn't broken didn't need to fix it.
nocmanus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2017, 01:17 PM   #11
1 Rivet Member
 
1976 Argosy 28
Atlanta , Georgia
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by fran&frank View Post
So just to be clear what you are doing-- you want to leave the original 14 gauge in place and to extend the lines to the new location of your fuse box and batteries with 12 gauge? I assume your logic is the original wire was 14 gauge, you reduced the load by going to LED lights, so extending the lines some with 12 gauge should be fine. I think that is probably an OK assumption assuming you don't want to rewire the whole circuit. But of course the only way to be sure is to measure or add up the anticipated load and the length of the circuit and look up the recommended wire gauge.--Frank
Thanks Frank. Yes that is exactly my logic. I have measured and wanted to play safe. It's close, but I think the better choice is to go 12. The circuits look to be in great shape.
nocmanus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2017, 01:19 PM   #12
2 Rivet Member
 
1979 28' Ambassador
Decatur , Alabama
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 21
Bat wire splice

Make sure the splices are clean and tight I would solder them. Your splice could be your highest voltage drop. To check measure bat voltage and voltage at the box with full load difference should be in the low .xx volts
DOCBloom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2017, 01:25 PM   #13
1 Rivet Member
 
1976 Argosy 28
Atlanta , Georgia
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by featherbedder View Post
I'm not a electrician but my understanding is #14 gauge wire max fuse is 15 amp and #12 gauge is 20 amps. If you splice #14 and #12 together max fuse would be 15 amps as still smaller wire in circuit, so #14 and #12 wire together would be waste of time and money

I hear ya, however:

Our '76 Argosy 26 has the following 12 volt fixtures:

Bath:1 fixture 2 bulbs = 3 amps (converted to LED)
Backbedroom Area: 3 fixtures 8 bulbs = 12 amps (converted to LED)
Galley and Dinette: 4 fixtures = 6 amps (Converted to LED)
Furnace Blower = 4.5 amps (Which as been removed and will not be using that cuiruit for anything but 2 additional LED lights)
Roof vent fans: 2 = 4 amps

3+12+6+4.5+4 = 29.5 amps with everything on. That's with NO conversion of LED and reducing the Furnace Blower amperage. I'm using the Furnace Blower Circuit to run 2 small computer fans. One for my Compost Toilet and one for the shower vent. I will never have everything turned on at the same time.
nocmanus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2017, 01:25 PM   #14
Rivet Master
 
mayco's Avatar

 
1982 31' Airstream 310
champaign , Illinois
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,722
Quote:
Originally Posted by MelGoddard View Post
Isn't 12 ga. max of 30 Amp?
My 30' FC is 30 Amp, with 12 ga. power cord.
( I would like to have 10 ga. cords to limit line loss over a longer run; but Jeez, they're heavy, and not readily available.)
14 ga. is max 20 amp, but fusing at 15 is very good.

A 25 ft long, 30amp power cord "should be" #10 ga wire.
mayco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2017, 01:27 PM   #15
4 Rivet Member
 
1990 32' Excella
jonesboro , Arkansas
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 251
Power cord

Your power cord should be a #10 for 30 amp service. You should neve have more than 20 amps on 12ga wire brush either 12 or 110 volts. Having worked with wiring for years I agree with the idea of running new wireing if it is exposed. The fewer connections the safer the system. While it's exposed check everywhere the wires pass thru a frame member for damage and rub points.
joel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2017, 01:56 PM   #16
4 Rivet Member
 
Currently Looking...
Vintage Kin Owner
Sonoma Co. , California
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 297
Your conversion to LED's makes the question easy. There is not enough amp draw with EVERYTHING on to overload the 12 ga wiring splice. I converted to LED's on my Argosy just to lessen the load on my single 12v battery. I think the wiring and breakers are happy, too.
USAtraveler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2017, 02:26 PM   #17
Rivet Master
 
1976 31' Sovereign
Oswego , Illinois
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,685
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by MelGoddard View Post
Isn't 12 ga. max of 30 Amp?
My 30' FC is 30 Amp, with 12 ga. power cord.
( I would like to have 10 ga. cords to limit line loss over a longer run; but Jeez, they're heavy, and not readily available.)
14 ga. is max 20 amp, but fusing at 15 is very good.
According to code #!4 wire max 15 amp #12 wire max 20 amp #10 gauge 30 amp, 220 volt both hot no neutral but bare to ground. As I stated prev. post not certified in electric work but have wired whole house and other bldgs. that passed inspection and up to code. If you want to run 20 amp fuse with #14 wire it is a fire hazard and Ins. co . prob. not pay claims, why take chances? Every electritian I no say 20 amp on #14 wire no go. If you doubt me for fuse size for wire size lod upe 15 amp on#14 wire and feel how hot the wire gets then will start to smell next stage shorted then fire no thks. I will stay with code. The house I wired is 46 yrs old wired with romex & proper breakers for wire size, never had shorts or popped breakers.
featherbedder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2017, 03:10 PM   #18
"Space A" S/O Registry 11
 
2006 34' Classic S/O
Fort Worth , Texas
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 959
On insurance claims: My company told me not to worry if I had done something dumb. They said, "We insure for stupidity as well as casualty." And they paid.
guskmg
guskmg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2017, 03:43 PM   #19
4 Rivet Member
 
bibbs's Avatar
 
1977 Argosy Minuet 6.0 Metre
1973 21' Globetrotter
1975 26' Argosy 26
Vista , California
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 365
If the inside skin is open you don't need to run the wires all the way back to there starting point. You can back feed from the nearest branch of the circuit. 15 amp or smaller fuse, you will be fine.
bibbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2017, 06:13 PM   #20
2 Rivet Member
 
mikesSE's Avatar
 
2007 23' Safari SE
ROSWELL , Georgia
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 90
Images: 14
SOLDER only,NO WIRENUTS,
__________________

__________________
Mike & Nancy Gore WBCCI #2914 S E Camping Unit 012 Roswell,Ga.
mikesSE is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Wire AWG (gauge) needed for full restoration. briheath Electrical - Systems, Generators, Batteries & Solar 6 06-07-2009 10:14 AM
HELP HELP HELP!! Lug nuts & Stems Chitown AirStreamers Wheels, Hubs & Bearings 4 08-18-2008 05:41 PM
Hot Water Heater HELP HELP HELP!!! Igor68 Water Heaters, Filters & Pumps 2 06-22-2006 09:07 PM
Help Help Help!!! rebel beck 1974 - 1979 Sovereign 9 01-07-2006 04:00 PM


Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:14 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.