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Old 01-08-2017, 08:49 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Flht2k View Post
Traded back my Briggs 3000 because it would not work with my 15k a for 2 briggs 2200 works perfectly.
That's very odd the 3K won't run your AC unit.
I plan on adding the BS 2000k or maybe another 3000k when I get the 34' Limited on the road. It will have 2 AC units then.
My wish for Briggs is to add a aux fuel tank to run them longer at 50% power.
Happy travels
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Old 01-08-2017, 05:09 PM   #30
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It's not that it won't run, it just does not have enough watts to start. Made numerous calls to dometic and confirmed.
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Old 01-08-2017, 06:17 PM   #31
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Here's the solution. I use one and the Honda 2000i. It works. http://www.microair.net/main/products/product.php?id=20


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Old 01-09-2017, 07:52 AM   #32
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confirmation of this solution?

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Originally Posted by trumpetguy View Post
Here's the solution. I use one and the Honda 2000i. It works. http://www.microair.net/main/products/product.php?id=20


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This looks very interesting, if it works on 1500 A/C units! Few questions:
1) How long have you been using this?
2) Does it work with dual air; ie- 2 A/C units (1500+1300)
3) I saw list price at $318; any issues with your unit?

If this can drive a 1500, should be sufficient for us and I like the idea not having to carry extra weight/hassle of either a second 2000W generator or purchasing a 3400W unit. Looking forward to your reply!

Anyone else using this set up or have other suggestions? This may be a great solution!
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Old 01-10-2017, 07:31 AM   #33
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Gypsydad...You will need an Easystart for each AC unit. I would not think that a 2000 watt generator would run two units. I only have one 15000 BTU Briskair by Dometic. My experience with Easystart was with my Oliver Legacy which I sold when I bought the Airstream. I will install an Easy Start on my Airstream before Summer arrives. My Honda 2000i was happy running the 12500 BTU on the Oliver. The issue with air conditioners lies in the Locked Rotor Amp draw which is about five times greater at startup than running amps. Easy Start claims they can start and run a three ton household AC with a 2000i Honda.

My primary reason for buying the Easy Start was to run the AC on batteries during short breaks while on the road rather than using a generator. My current setup is a 3000 Watt Magnum inverter, plus four six volt batteries which will start and run the AC. It is a hybrid so if I use it in conjunction with a generator there will be less drain on the batteries. I would only use my generator while boondocking.

All the best.


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Old 01-10-2017, 05:24 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by trumpetguy View Post
Easy Start claims they can start and run a three ton household AC with a 2000i Honda.

All the best.


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I did not see that claim on their website.
I can't imagine how that is possible.

Bruce
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Old 01-18-2017, 08:55 AM   #35
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Hello from Micro-Air

Hi everyone. We've been monitoring this thread and decided to join your forum so we could comment and answer questions. After discussions with your kind moderator, we're now allowed to post and we intend to stay within the rules of your forum. Our goal is to ensure everyone has all the right information to make their own decisions.

First of all, we would like to thank trumpetguy for mentioning our EasyStart model 364 product. Those of you who are members of other RV forums may have read similar topics and seen the many customer success stories. EasyStart is a very unique product, and we have worked very long and hard over the past 4 years to make it the best it can possibly be. It is most certainly for real.

Regarding the claim mentioned above and questioned by AstroBruce, the EasyStart cannot start and run a 3-ton A/C system on a 115V 2000W Honda Generator. 3-ton A/C systems are all 230V, and typically require steady-state power in the 3500W range to run. Of course, if you had a 230V generator and a 3-ton A/C system, you could use the same EasyStart model 364 to start and run it! Every EasyStart is dual-voltage and dual-frequency. And for systems larger than 3-ton, the EasyStart model 368 is available for up to true 6-ton capacity. For example, many customers use the EasyStart 368 on their larger residential A/C units so they can run their house and its A/C on a standby generator during a power outage.

As everyone already knows, the largest rooftop RV air conditioners that are readily available on the market from Airxcel/Coleman and Dometic are 13.5k, 15k, and 15.5kBTUs. EasyStart will start and run all of these on the Honda EU2000i. In fact, at Micro-Air we purchased and still own a Honda EU2000i, and we used it to run many experiments years ago to determine the capability of EasyStart. On every 115V A/C we could find, including an 18kBTU marine unit that had an LRA rating of 79 amps, EasyStart will start and run this A/C reliably on the Honda EU2000i from ECO mode.

Speaking of ECO mode, assuming your A/C cycles off during the night and doesn't just run full blast all the time, the fact that the Honda EU2000i will drop to a lower RPM under light load makes a big difference in its fuel economy. It may allow you to get through an entire night's sleep on a single (standard-sized) tank of fuel when it otherwise would not have. Since the EasyStart imparts a 5-second delay to the start-up of the compessor, when the A/C's evaporator and condenser fans start up when its thermostat calls for a cooling cycle, these loads are enough to cause the Honda to exit ECO mode and jump to high-RPM in time, before the EasyStart begins gently ramping up the compessor.

Beyond the obvious advantage of being able to start your A/C with a generator or inverter that otherwise would not have, many people in other forums have discovered and really like the fact that the EasyStart dramatically reduces the compressor's start-up noise. Some Coleman models like the Mach 8 and Polar Cub have been reported to make a loud "bang" when they start, which can disturb light sleepers. EasyStart completely eliminated this annoyance for these customers.

There is a lot of information which you can study for yourselves on the EasyStart webpage and in the YouTube video. But please don't hesitate to ask any further questions. I'm here to help.

Thank you again for your interest in our EasyStart product.
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Old 01-18-2017, 09:44 AM   #36
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Matteo, Thanks for chiming in. Interesting product. Can one use the 366 model for a typical 15k or 13.5k RV A/C? How difficult is it to self install?
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Old 01-18-2017, 10:08 AM   #37
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EasyStart 366 vs. 364

Hi Scott,

Thanks for the compliment and for your question. Yes, by all means you can use the EasyStart 366 product for the rooftops, and save yourself about half the cost in the process. Not to keep referring to other forums, but there are many savvy DIY customers who have had great success installing the EasyStart 366. In fact, in many cases it would seem the forum members were competing with each other on who's installation was better! I certainly enjoyed that, and just sat back to watch the fun.

The challenge with the EasyStart 366 is basically three-fold. First, since it is just a raw circuit board, you need to find a suitable enclosure in which to mount it. Depending on your rooftop model, the existing electric box that houses the A/C's run cap and perhaps existing hard start components may be big enough to fit the board. In such cases, many people mount the board on the back wall of this box, or on the inside of the cover. We now provide 1/2" standoffs for free with the purchase of any EasyStart 366 since those are difficult to obtain (unless you're already buying stuff from electronic component suppliers). In cases where the electric box is too small, customers have supplied their own. A sheet metal or plastic box will suffice, as long as it keeps out the blowing rain. Second, you need to provide your own start capacitor, which is sized based upon the BTUs of the A/C. In cases where the A/C had a hard start device already installed (which must be removed when installing any EasyStart), that start capacitor can often be re-purposed for use with the EasyStart 366. Lastly, you need to provide your own wiring and crimp terminals.

So, as you can see, if you are handy and electrically-inclined enough, installing an EasyStart 366 isn't that difficult. But if you want to take the simpler route, the EasyStart 364 of course comes in its own enclosure, has a built-in start cap, and a provided wire harness.

Thanks again for your good question.
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Old 01-18-2017, 12:41 PM   #38
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Boy! What's not to like about these? Only buy/load/fuel/store one generator yet still use our 15K A/C when dry camping.
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Old 01-19-2017, 12:06 PM   #39
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Thanks and sounds like a great product!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Micro-Air View Post
Hi everyone. We've been monitoring this thread and decided to join your forum so we could comment and answer questions. After discussions with your kind moderator, we're now allowed to post and we intend to stay within the rules of your forum. Our goal is to ensure everyone has all the right information to make their own decisions.

First of all, we would like to thank trumpetguy for mentioning our EasyStart model 364 product. Those of you who are members of other RV forums may have read similar topics and seen the many customer success stories. EasyStart is a very unique product, and we have worked very long and hard over the past 4 years to make it the best it can possibly be. It is most certainly for real.

Regarding the claim mentioned above and questioned by AstroBruce, the EasyStart cannot start and run a 3-ton A/C system on a 115V 2000W Honda Generator. 3-ton A/C systems are all 230V, and typically require steady-state power in the 3500W range to run. Of course, if you had a 230V generator and a 3-ton A/C system, you could use the same EasyStart model 364 to start and run it! Every EasyStart is dual-voltage and dual-frequency. And for systems larger than 3-ton, the EasyStart model 368 is available for up to true 6-ton capacity. For example, many customers use the EasyStart 368 on their larger residential A/C units so they can run their house and its A/C on a standby generator during a power outage.

As everyone already knows, the largest rooftop RV air conditioners that are readily available on the market from Airxcel/Coleman and Dometic are 13.5k, 15k, and 15.5kBTUs. EasyStart will start and run all of these on the Honda EU2000i. In fact, at Micro-Air we purchased and still own a Honda EU2000i, and we used it to run many experiments years ago to determine the capability of EasyStart. On every 115V A/C we could find, including an 18kBTU marine unit that had an LRA rating of 79 amps, EasyStart will start and run this A/C reliably on the Honda EU2000i from ECO mode.

Speaking of ECO mode, assuming your A/C cycles off during the night and doesn't just run full blast all the time, the fact that the Honda EU2000i will drop to a lower RPM under light load makes a big difference in its fuel economy. It may allow you to get through an entire night's sleep on a single (standard-sized) tank of fuel when it otherwise would not have. Since the EasyStart imparts a 5-second delay to the start-up of the compessor, when the A/C's evaporator and condenser fans start up when its thermostat calls for a cooling cycle, these loads are enough to cause the Honda to exit ECO mode and jump to high-RPM in time, before the EasyStart begins gently ramping up the compessor.

Beyond the obvious advantage of being able to start your A/C with a generator or inverter that otherwise would not have, many people in other forums have discovered and really like the fact that the EasyStart dramatically reduces the compressor's start-up noise. Some Coleman models like the Mach 8 and Polar Cub have been reported to make a loud "bang" when they start, which can disturb light sleepers. EasyStart completely eliminated this annoyance for these customers.

There is a lot of information which you can study for yourselves on the EasyStart webpage and in the YouTube video. But please don't hesitate to ask any further questions. I'm here to help.

Thank you again for your interest in our EasyStart product.
Thanks for your clarification and supporting information on your product! I have a couple questions:
1) Does this just plug into the 2000W generator, accept the RV (Airstream of course) connector plug, and lay on the ground/trailer a frame or do you need to mount the box?
2) I am in Austin and have looked at Camper Clinic RV dealership and also on Amazon; neither carry this unit . Where is best place to purchase and try out?
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Old 01-19-2017, 12:59 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gypsydad View Post
Thanks for your clarification and supporting information on your product! I have a couple questions:
1) Does this just plug into the 2000W generator, accept the RV (Airstream of course) connector plug, and lay on the ground/trailer a frame or do you need to mount the box?
2) I am in Austin and have looked at Camper Clinic RV dealership and also on Amazon; neither carry this unit . Where is best place to purchase and try out?
Hi Gypsydad. Thanks for your questions.

The EasyStart doesn't connect to the generator. It must be connected internally inside the air conditioner itself, specifically into the compressor wiring. The EasyStart (364) box itself is then must be mounted somewhere inside the air conditioning housing. Please look in the attachments to this post to see a basic overview of how an EasyStart 364 would be wired and mounted into a Coleman Mach 1 or Mach 3 A/C unit.

Your best source for the EasyStart is buying direct from our webstore, which you can gain access to through our website. (Your moderator told me I cannot post links, so I don't want to break the rules.) We do have distributors around the country for our marine controls, and there is a large distributor in Houston, AER Supply. I recently inquired with them about who their dealers and installers were in Austin that could handle an EasyStart installation into an RV rooftop and they gave me the list below:
Five Star
Austin, TX 78734
Tel. 512 266 3123
jdeprato@austin.rr.com
Contact: John Deprato Ė Owner

Sail & Ski Austin
Austin, TX 78750
Tel. 512 258 0733
Contact: Paul French Ė Tech

Stanís Heating & Air
Austin, TX
Tel. 817 851 8435
Contact: John
Please realize that these dealers may not be familiar with EasyStart, but they're certainly capable of doing an installation and they can purchase them from our distributor. As a result, they may be able to offer a discount in the form of reduced installation cost, if you want them to do that for you.

Hope this helps.
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Old 01-19-2017, 07:44 PM   #41
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Using my kill-o-watt I measured electrical demand into my Airstream at 14 to 15 amps with the AC on. At 120 volts that's 1800 watts. The Honda 2000i specs at 1600 operating to 2000 Watts peak. How does this work in real life?
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Old 01-20-2017, 12:55 AM   #42
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Using my kill-o-watt I measured electrical demand into my Airstream at 14 to 15 amps with the AC on. At 120 volts that's 1800 watts. The Honda 2000i specs at 1600 operating to 2000 Watts peak. How does this work in real life?
I'm sure there are lots of Honda owners here who can comment on this, but our experience has been The Honda EU2000i will not declare an overload fault (i.e. light its overload fault indicator) until it goes over 2000W, which is about 16.7A at 120VAC. The 1300W specification is listed in the manual as the "rated output", and the overload fault indicator lights when it goes over the "maximum output", which is 2000W.

Beyond this, during compressor start-up without EasyStart, the Honda typically allows a surge to about twice its maximum rating for a very brief instant (100-300ms) before the output voltage begins to show a significant collapse. Using a special, high-speed ammeter or oscilloscope, we were able to capture output currents up to about 32A for very brief periods of time during startup attempts without EasyStart. Honda does NOT specify this short-duration surge limit in their manuals, nor would any Honda rep ever tell you about it. We discovered it through our extensive testing.

Almost all of the 13k-15k rooftop A/Cs have an LRA in the neighborhood of 50A, and the typical surge current we measured during startups without EasyStart was 40-45A (on utility power). After startup, the steady-state current draw for a typical rooftop is in the neighborhood of 10-12A. Note that you will NOT be able to measure the startup peak using your garden-variety, clamp-on ammeter because they're not fast enough to capture it (watch the YouTube video for more details on this). Instead they will report an averaged value, typically in the mid-20s. Make no mistake though. Behind the scenes, there is an ~45A peak current going on for about 150-300ms during the compressor start-up on utility power. The Honda's inverter-driven output is quite impressive and can sometimes "ride through" such a peak demand, but at the expense of output voltage, which will collapse to perhaps below 100V, and keep collapsing until the output current drops within that unspecified 32A surge limit we discovered. At this point, it's luck of the draw. Most 120V compressors will stall somewhere around 95VAC during a start-up. So, whether or not the compressor start-up is successful will all depend on how long the surge lasts and how low the voltage dips.

This is why you sometimes hear of Honda owners reporting that they can successfully start and run their A/Cs, even without using any type of soft start device. But in many cases, these same owners will also report that it sometimes doesn't work. Tow your trailer to higher altitudes or use the propane conversion kit, and now what was marginal won't work at all.

Enter EasyStart, which will reduce that 50 LRA down to about 16-18A, putting it well within the surge capacity of the Honda, and sometimes within the maximum steady-state capacity. It's really quite amazing. And with this sort of real reduction, you can also perhaps have one other small appliance loading the generator when the compressor starts up, and it will still work. It's important to never interrupt the drink blender or beer cooler!
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