Should I Keep My 2 X Honda 2000i Generators

[kscherzi]

Using my kill-o-watt I measured electrical demand into my Airstream at 14 to 15 amps with the AC on. At 120 volts that's 1800 watts. The Honda 2000i specs at 1600 operating to 2000 Watts peak. How does this work in real life?

[Micro-Air]

Originally Posted by kscherzi

Using my kill-o-watt I measured electrical demand into my Airstream at 14 to 15 amps with the AC on. At 120 volts that's 1800 watts. The Honda 2000i specs at 1600 operating to 2000 Watts peak. How does this work in real life?

I'm sure there are lots of Honda owners here who can comment on this, but our experience has been The Honda EU2000i will not declare an overload fault (i.e. light its overload fault indicator) until it goes over 2000W, which is about 16.7A at 120VAC. The 1300W specification is listed in the manual as the "rated output", and the overload fault indicator lights when it goes over the "maximum output", which is 2000W.

Beyond this, during compressor start-up without EasyStart, the Honda typically allows a surge to about twice its maximum rating for a very brief instant (100-300ms) before the output voltage begins to show a significant collapse. Using a special, high-speed ammeter or oscilloscope, we were able to capture output currents up to about 32A for very brief periods of time during startup attempts without EasyStart. Honda does NOT specify this short-duration surge limit in their manuals, nor would any Honda rep ever tell you about it. We discovered it through our extensive testing.

Almost all of the 13k-15k rooftop A/Cs have an LRA in the neighborhood of 50A, and the typical surge current we measured during startups without EasyStart was 40-45A (on utility power). After startup, the steady-state current draw for a typical rooftop is in the neighborhood of 10-12A. Note that you will NOT be able to measure the startup peak using your garden-variety, clamp-on ammeter because they're not fast enough to capture it (watch the YouTube video for more details on this). Instead they will report an averaged value, typically in the mid-20s. Make no mistake though. Behind the scenes, there is an ~45A peak current going on for about 150-300ms during the compressor start-up on utility power. The Honda's inverter-driven output is quite impressive and can sometimes "ride through" such a peak demand, but at the expense of output voltage, which will collapse to perhaps below 100V, and keep collapsing until the output current drops within that unspecified 32A surge limit we discovered. At this point, it's luck of the draw. Most 120V compressors will stall somewhere around 95VAC during a start-up. So, whether or not the compressor start-up is successful will all depend on how long the surge lasts and how low the voltage dips.

This is why you sometimes hear of Honda owners reporting that they can successfully start and run their A/Cs, even without using any type of soft start device. But in many cases, these same owners will also report that it sometimes doesn't work. Tow your trailer to higher altitudes or use the propane conversion kit, and now what was marginal won't work at all.

Enter EasyStart, which will reduce that 50 LRA down to about 16-18A, putting it well within the surge capacity of the Honda, and sometimes within the maximum steady-state capacity. It's really quite amazing. And with this sort of real reduction, you can also perhaps have one other small appliance loading the generator when the compressor starts up, and it will still work. It's important to never interrupt the drink blender or beer cooler!

[Bill M.]

Scherzi:

was the power converter still on when you used the kill o watt meter?

[Roadhoop]

I have converted my honda 2000i to propane. Knowing that this does reduce output, will your product still work? 2 AC 25' flying cloud. Thanks for joining the forum.

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[GettinAway]

Any installers in St Louis Missouri area?

[Micro-Air]

Originally Posted by Roadhoop

I have converted my honda 2000i to propane. Knowing that this does reduce output, will your product still work? 2 AC 25' flying cloud. Thanks for joining the forum.

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Thank you for the kind welcome. Glad to be here.

If I understand what you wrote correctly, if you have 2 A/Cs and only 1 Honda EU2000i, then you won't be able to run both at the same time even with EasyStart installed on each A/C. This is because the steady-state running amps for 2 A/Cs will exceed 2000W. As discussed above, typical rooftops draw around 10-12A, so 2 A/Cs running that somehow were able to start will be drawing well in excess of the Honda's 16.7A overload limit (2000W).

For a single A/C on the Honda running on propane, all of our customers who have installed EasyStart have met with great success.

[trumpetguy]

I self installed my unit using a diagram provided by Micro air. Other than getting on the roof it was easy.


2007 International CCD 28
www.emeraldcoastcamper.com

[kscherzi]

Originally Posted by Bill M.

Scherzi:

was the power converter still on when you used the kill o watt meter?

Yes, the converter was on. I think the fridge and water heater were off. A more realistic test would be to have those on as both draw slight amount of power for their ignition system even when on propane. They would normally be on when camping. My trailer has the Dometic Penguin II 15,000 BTU air conditioner.

I did do the test again a few months ago on a hot day but didn't write any notes. I recall the power demand kept drifting upward after startup. Somehow up 1,900 watts keeps coming to mind but my memory isn't perfect. I also don't remember what else was on. The trailer was plugged into my house wall socket on a 20 amp socket. Our power is always steady between 118 and 122 volts, even under load.

This is a very interesting product. A 2000 watt generator is light and compact. If it can power the AC reliably under real world camping scenarios it sounds perfect.

[kscherzi]

Looking back at my old notes, both the fridge and water heater draw 0.2 amps each when on propane. Not much at all.

[NevadaGeo]

Note that MicroAir was testing with the Honda 2000i. Some of the other supermarket brand generators may not have the same start power as the Honda; it may be in the size of the engine or the amount of copper in the generator or other differences although they are listed at 2000 watt. Just to caution someone going out to buy that $499 other brand. (Seen it happen, a camp mate bought 2 other brand 2000 watt, paired they wouldn't fire their air conditioner.)

[GettinAway]

I'm going to get this microair for our AC. Only question now is DIY, or get it installed. I'd like to hear from someone that has it installed though. My wife doesn't care so much about me running and taking care of one or two generators (I really do!) once I told her it might reduce the cycling noise of the AC, she was all over it. We won't even run the heat pump when hooked up to shore power. Too loud..

[trumpetguy]

Microair will give yo good instructions for a DIY. Go for it.


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[Roadhoop]

Also looking to do this. I assume it totally voids any warranty from the AC manufacturer?

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[Micro-Air]

Originally Posted by trumpetguy

Microair will give yo good instructions for a DIY. Go for it.

Thanks, trumpetguy.

Originally Posted by Roadhoop

Also looking to do this. I assume it totally voids any warranty from the AC manufacturer?

Roadhoop - Yours is a good question which has been asked a few times before, the answer to which is still up for debate. We at Micro-Air have an extensive OEM relationship as a strategic supplier with both Dometic and Coleman/Airxcel. Dometic uses a specialized versions of EasyStart in their marine division, along with thousands of our marine controls, but they do not use EasyStart in their RV division. Coleman/Airxcel once built in EasyStart into a 240V/50Hz model that they sold exclusively to a trailer OEM in Australia, but they later lost that contract so that business died off. I actually did pose your question to the president of the RV products division of Airxcel/Coleman, who knows me well. He didn't say "no", but said he would "get back to me". That was in September. I inquired with him a couple more times since, and he responded with the same answer. As of today, there is still no official word back from them.

Installing EasyStart correctly adds no risk of damage to your A/C. In fact, it will better protect the compressor since EasyStart has all kinds of fault checks that it does continuously even after the startup is complete.

So, bottom line, if you ever need to claim a warranty repair or replacement from your rooftop's manufacturer and they reject it because you had EasyStart installed, certainly let me know. If the failure has nothing to do with EasyStart, I'll gladly go to bat for you with the either manufacturer since they both know Micro-Air. I won't let them try and hide from the truth without at least a fight!

[kscherzi]

I'm interested too but would like to hear from someone who has a Dometic Penguin II 15 k AC. I don't even own a generator but am looking. Much prefer the lighter weight Honda or Yamaha 2000's.

[gypsydad]

Looks like installation seems straight forward after viewing the Youtube video's and reading several RV reviews about installation! Seems that the combination of EasyStart with a 2000W generator will work for 1500 AC with great advantages; lower noise at AC start, less strain on AC unit, less strain on the generator, and can!

As for which 2000W generator for those who are still looking, I am including some info I posted earlier. I am very happy with my Champion 2000W from Amazon and find it very comparable to Honda and Yamaha.
You can find service centers for Champion all over as with Honda and Yamaha, but not likely you will have issues with any of them.
Generator Mfg.ModelPowerWeightNoiseCostHondaEU2000i1600-2000w47lbs53-59dbs,$999.00; YamahaEF2000i1600-2000w44lbs51.5dbs$989.00; Champion73536i 20001700-2000w48lbs53dbs$442.36;Briggs & StratonP22001700-2200w55lbs59dbs$632.78

[Vitaver]

Can you please give us a link to a description and specs, price, etc. of the Easystart? Thank you.

[DFlores]

Subscribed (will be purchasing as budget allows)


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[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by Vitaver

Can you please give us a link to a description and specs, price, etc. of the Easystart? Thank you.

Here is where I found the information after first reading on this thread. Contact Matteo at MicroAir for more information or to find local seller.

http://www.microair.net/main/products/product.php?id=20

https://id144248.webhosting.optonlin...ex.php?cPath=4

Here is a Youtube video done recently which is long and somewhat boring, but it shows all the details with demonstration.

https://video.search.yahoo.com/searc...02&action=view

[Al and Missy]

My 2002 Classic 30 slideout has what I believe is a 13,500 Dometic A/C unit. The external shroud has been repainted or replaced. I had been pondering whether to acquire a second Honda 2000i so I could, if really necessary, have A/C on generator power.

Reading this thread, and finding the data about the Easy Start was intriguing, especially when I read that the Easy Start starts the fan first and ramps up the compressor a little later. My Dometic starts the fan first (the 11,000 BTU unit in my 2001 Safari did not) and the compressor start is not the "thunk" I was accustomed to with my 2001. Is this common? Or maybe the most recent PO installed an Easy Start as a part of his upgrades (new flooring, leather upholstery on the dinette and sofa, etc.) The cost of an Easy Start would have been insignificant increase during that process.

Thanks,

Al