Rewiring - starting from scratch

[59er]

Hi all,

I'm getting ready to rewire my 59 18footer. Originally, it did not have a converter or inverter or 12v battery.

It doesn't have a furnace blower (DC) yet and only used DC to run a dome light which I assume is powered from the vehicle hookup?

Anyway, I've pretty much got it gutted (except for the wiring in the walls). Now I'm not sure how to design what I'll need for wiring the appliances, lighting, etc.

I'm assuming that I'll need to convert the 110 to 12v to run a new furnace blower. I'm not sure if I'll need an inverter to run the AC fridge from a battery or ?

Any suggestions are appreciated...

[overlander63]

Originally Posted by Traveller

Anyway, I've pretty much got it gutted (except for the wiring in the walls). Now I'm not sure how to design what I'll need for wiring the appliances, lighting, etc.

I'm assuming that I'll need to convert the 110 to 12v to run a new furnace blower. I'm not sure if I'll need an inverter to run the AC fridge from a battery or ?

Any suggestions are appreciated...

I would say you will be able to get away with a 12v light in the bathroom, a 12v light at the rear of the main living area, a 12v light in the galley, and another 12v light at the front of the living area. If you want a powered vent, you will need to run a power lead for it as well. You could wire the bathroom light feed wire, and the galley light feed wire as a single circuit, the two main living area lights together as a circuit, and the roof vent as a separate circuit. I replaced the incandescent bulbs in our coach with flourescents, they are brighter, give off less residual heat, and seem to have a lower power draw.
An inverter to run the fridge would not be worth the effort, as the fridge would most likely drain your battery in about 15 minutes.
If you are going to use an electric water pump, instead of the air-pressure pump most trailers of that vintage had, I would suggest having a separate circuit for that as well. A single feed wire to all loads, with grounding through the metal skin of the trailer, seems to be much preferred, as well as half as much wiring.

[juel]

Sorry to butt in on this post; however, I can't seem to start one of my own. I am trying to get a new exhaust fan installed in my bathroom. (1978 Argosy) I bought one from Inland RV and the RV man here says it is 2 inches bigger than the old one and he doesn't feel comfortable cutting into the roof of the trailer. I don't know if I can return this fan; however, I will need some sort of replacement because the old fan has crumbled and leaks badly. Can anyone tell me if it is safe to cut the hole in the bathroom ceiling bigger, what should I use to cut it with and what sealant should I use if I get that far? I don't think this fan is located in the steel end cap, so it seems I should be able to enlarage the hole. Any suggestions?

[balrgn]

Juel, I'd use some good quality tin snps, like these
http://www.copperguttershop.com/Prod...p?ProductID=96

[TomW]

Originally Posted by juel

...Can anyone tell me if it is safe to cut the hole in the bathroom ceiling bigger, ...and what sealant should I use if I get that far? ... Any suggestions?

I'm with you in that I would prefer to not cut the hole any bigger. But if ya can't find an exact replacement fan, ya gotta work with what you can get.

Another poster already recommended good quality snips. It is safe to cut into the ceiling as long as you plan your cut before making it to avoid any ribs. The ribs' location can be verified by looking at the roofs' rivets' lines.

While I believe the factory is now using Sikaflex (sp?) as a sealant, I like working with the Vulkem sealant available at AirstreamDreams.com.

Tom

[wahoonc]

My reccomendation after 25+ years of metal work Would be these or something very similar. Midwest brand is okay as well as Wiss, both should be available at your local hardware, lumber yard or home improvement store. I prefer the offset to keep my fingers out of the cut edges. As far as cutting the hole larger...ya does what ya gotta...

Aaron

[thenewkid64]

Originally Posted by juel

I am trying to get a new exhaust fan installed in my bathroom. (1978 Argosy) I bought one from Inland RV and the RV man here says it is 2 inches bigger than the old one and he doesn't feel comfortable cutting into the roof of the trailer. Can anyone tell me if it is safe to cut the hole in the bathroom ceiling bigger, what should I use to cut it with and what sealant should I use if I get that far?

Juel,

The opening is only half the battle

You can cut the hole larger. If you are installing a ventline round fan I can offer some insight. The old fan was installed before the inner skin was installed. Once the inner and outer precise are removed you will find an aluminum flange that is fitted between the skin. This MUST come out. I had to cut the one in Vintage Thunder into 2 pieces to get it out of the space between the skins. I used a dremel with a cut off wheel to do this. If you try to cut the hole larger to get the insert out, it will be too big for the new fan

In Vintage Thunder the fan was in the steel section of the cap, it was not a big deal to cut the hole larger once I had that silly insert out.

[59er]

Thanks Terry,


I hadn't remembered the water pump. I am planning on using a newer electric one.

Is anyone using an inverter to run the frig while traveling? I'd heard that there were inverters (or maybe converters?) that would continuously recharge using the tow vehicles alt.? or something like that...

[87MH]

Originally Posted by Traveller

....Is anyone using an inverter to run the frig while traveling? I'd heard that there were inverters (or maybe converters?) that would continuously recharge using the tow vehicles alt.? or something like that...

As per this chart….

http://www.donrowe.com/inverters/usage_chart.html

a refrigerator draws 600 watts. (Note that the amperage requirement will be about three times that amount while starting – a good storage battery could supply a very short term starting amperage providing the rest of the electricals are properly sized).

600 watts at 12 volts requires a 50 amp source – assuming your Tow Vehicles alternator has this much capacity to spare (very unlikely), and further assuming a 30 foot hookup is necessary between your TV and the inverter, see this chart….

http://www.landandseasolar.com/info.html

and observe that according to the voltage drop - cable size - circuit length chart (table) a #2/0 (#00) cable would give satisfactory performance up to only 29’ of cable length - the ground circuit would require a like size cable. (Consider the difficulties of installing this on your Tow Vehicle and the TV/Trailer interconnect.)

Anything less, and the voltage drop would be intolerable and the battery(ies) would be quickly discharged and severely damaged.

[markdoane]

Originally Posted by Traveller

Hi all,

I'm assuming that I'll need to convert the 110 to 12v to run a new furnace blower. I'm not sure if I'll need an inverter to run the AC fridge from a battery or ?

Any suggestions are appreciated...

It's true that you don't want to run a regular 'home style' refrigerator off an inverter, but would consider buying a Dometic 2-way refrigerator?

They're more expensive, but they will run off LP, and on 120V they draw less than 3 amps.

They draw less current because they operate by absorption cycle (resistance heater), rather than a compressor. And they don't need a larger inverter to cover starting current.

[dscluchfc]

If I was going to "update" a 1959-18 footer, I would think about getting from the Airstream factory a 12V harness kit for wiring the inside, then wire it to modern specs.

[59er]

What do you guys do about powering the frig while on the road (i.e. in tow)?

[balrgn]

Originally Posted by Traveller

What do you guys do about powering the frig while on the road (i.e. in tow)?

I do not have a way to run power to the fridge. If I need the fridge cold, I use the propane. It will stay cold for a good long time with no power.

[59er]

This all kind of brings me back to my original reason for asking...

What types of things should I plan on using 12v and what things would be suited for 110?

So far, I can imagine using 12v for: water pump, furnace blower, 'dome' light, etc,

while I would imagine I'd use 110 for all other lights, A/C, a/c outlets, small appliances, etc....

How do modern campers allow for switching between 12v (on-board) battery power to 12v converted from 110?

or am I completely off base here?

Thanks.

[markdoane]

Traveller,

Here is my list of possible 12V DC thingys. You want to decide if any of these will be included in your remodel. If you think you will add them in the future, I would put in wire and reserve fuse slots for these items:

lights
small 300w inverter (TV set, computer, etc.)
breakaway switch for brakes
water pump
powerjack
CO detector
LP gas detector
furnace controls/thermostat
furnace blower
macerator pump
refrigerator controls
water heater control, ignitor
power step
bathroom vent fan
kitchen vent fan
roof vent fans/fantastic fans
outside porch light, scare light
compartment lights
power taps for misc 12V DC appliances
spares (2)

You might never want some of these things, but its easier to pull wire for them while the walls are out.

[overlander63]

Originally Posted by Traveller

This all kind of brings me back to my original reason for asking...

What types of things should I plan on using 12v and what things would be suited for 110?

So far, I can imagine using 12v for: water pump, furnace blower, 'dome' light, etc,

while I would imagine I'd use 110 for all other lights, A/C, a/c outlets, small appliances, etc....

How do modern campers allow for switching between 12v (on-board) battery power to 12v converted from 110?

or am I completely off base here?Thanks.

They use the Univolt, or a more modern equivalent, to power the 12v stuff, and keep the battery charged when running on 110v. There is really no reason to install 110v lighting, as you will have 12v lighting that you can use whether you are running on 12v or 110v. You can leave the 110v outlets in place, in case you need an extra light somewhere, as well as being able to operate other 110v appliances such as a coffee maker, or a television set.

[A-Merry-Can]

hi guys,

i have a '59 traveller as well... one state over! i'm almost to the wiring stage, and had a few questions i don't fully understand how the umbilical and the onboard batteries relate to one another. if i got this right, the lights, and majority of the trailer is all 12V, with the exception of the AC, and in some cases, the fridge. everything else runs off the batteries. when the trailer is plugged in, the inverter keeps the batteries charged, or, in the absence of batteries, provides 12V DC. how does the umbilical need to relate to the rest of this series? are the running lights completely independent from the trailer's onboard battery power?

my trailer was gutted as well, and i have no points of reference. thanks!

jp

[wkerfoot]

Other than powering the running lights, brake lights, turn signals and trailer brakes, the wiring from the tow vehicle provides a charge line to the batteries to keep them charged. The batteries provide the emergency power to the break away switch in case of hitch disconnect in addition to powering the various 12V circuits.

Bill

[Chuck]

Originally Posted by A-Merry-Can

hi guys,

... how does the umbilical need to relate to the rest of this series? are the running lights completely independent from the trailer's onboard battery power?
jp

couple things:

the running lights are seperate from the rest of the trailer. they simply mate to the tow vehicles headlight circuit.
there is a charging circuit from the tow vehicle that connects from the umbilical to the converter, which will power the 12v systems in the trailer, and charge the battery.
another line in the umbilical branches off to the brakes, and others connect the brake lights/directionals/reverse lights.

your drawing is not quite right. I'm not so handy with the drawing programs, so perhaps I can describe it verbally:

the 110v from shore power doesn't go "through" the inverter. (its more acurately called a "CONverter", too, btw). the line connects to a 110 circuit breaker box, just like what is in your house. 2 circuits go from there to the outlets, and air conditioning. (air conditioner is typically on a dedicated circuit. everything else, including the converter, is powered from the other circuit). the converter then sends 12v out to the 12v lights/appliances/outlets. if the 110 is plugged in, it also charges the battery. if its not, it gets its power from the battery.

does that make sense?

[fastrob]

I think you need a diagram and go from there.
Suggest a charge monitor with the inverter to keep the battery from frying and dying.
Have heard wonderful things about fluorescent lights.
Your budget is a controling factor.
You all can have fun with a candle and a battery powered boom box for all that matters.
What do you want for wiring?
R