Progressive Industries warranty void if using a Yamaha EF2000iS

[Boog]

Found this today: https://www.progressiveindustries.net/disclaimer

"Please be advised the Yamaha Generator Model EF2000iS does not generate enough start-up current which causes the unit to overload. The generator then puts out non-true Sine Wave power. Progressive Industries units are designed to operate only on True Sine Wave power.
For this reason, The Progressive Industries Warranty is hereby void if an EMS Unit is used in conjunction with a Yamaha Generator Model EF2000iS. Any damage sustained to the EMS unit are the sole responsibility of the customer."


I wonder how this might apply to other 2000 watt generators that boast using the Yamaha engine?

[r carl]

Lots of good info clicking on their news tab.

[Adventure.AS]

Originally Posted by Boog

Found this today: https://www.progressiveindustries.net/disclaimer

"... For this reason, The Progressive Industries Warranty is hereby void if an EMS Unit is used in conjunction with a Yamaha Generator Model EF2000iS. Any damage sustained to the EMS unit are the sole responsibility of the customer."


I wonder how this might apply to other 2000 watt generators that boast using the Yamaha engine?

Why would it be necessary to use an EMS with a generator? Are they to protect against line power surges and faulty campground electricity?

[Boog]

Originally Posted by Adventure.AS

Why would it be necessary to use an EMS with a generator? Are they to protect against line power surges and faulty campground electricity?

Excellent point for the portable EMS units, I have the hardwired EMS.

[Bill M.]

Is there a bypass switch?

[r carl]

"Please be advised the Yamaha Generator Model EF2000iS does not generate enough start-up current which causes the unit to overload. The generator then puts out non-true Sine Wave power.
.

I wonder if this happens to any other inverter generators?

[Plan-B]

The same for any inveter of any wattage of any brand , like Honda.
Couple things: if you are using a quality generator/inveter like Honda or Yamaha there is no need for your power protection like Progessive ( note I own their product and two Honda 2000i but not used together. I tried that and the PMS freaked out). I contacted progressive
and they said don’t do that , just like their documentation stated. PMS explained to me one, no need for their unit using a Yamaha and Honda their power is very clean. Second they said the Yamaha and Honda inverters use a ‘floating ground’ which the PMs
Logically assumes you have a power issue. Just repeating what they told me and my experiences.

[guskmg]

The quality of AC output from an inverter generator is as good as you can get. Lewster advised me to always use a neutral-ground jumper plug directly plug into a socket on the genny. All RVs are wired with a floating neutral because the source at the pole is already connected and if the RV was then plugged in with reverse polarity you would have a mess on your hands. It might even be lethal.
guskmg

[JohnTF]

Missing info - " start up current " is meaningless !
Whats starting - what , and how much current are they talking about - with this statement ?
I agree that using there device with a generator should not be inline with the generator .
If you are using a grid-tie inverter , then having the EMS plugged into the gird / shore-power to an inverter that has a transfer-switch , that is designed for generator backup .

[james.mileur]

My Progressive EMS manual from fall of 2016 said don't use with any inverter generator.

[Life is a Highway]

Lots of good Youtube video instructions on making you own plug to stop any floating ground issues. I made two of them for my two Honda 2000! I just tried them with my Surge Guard and the Micro Air installed on the AC. I had no issues running the AC with only 1 Honda, I had no fault codes or circuit issues.

Originally Posted by Plan-B

The same for any inveter of any wattage of any brand , like Honda.
Couple things: if you are using a quality generator/inveter like Honda or Yamaha there is no need for your power protection like Progessive ( note I own their product and two Honda 2000i but not used together. I tried that and the PMS freaked out). I contacted progressive
and they said don’t do that , just like their documentation stated. PMS explained to me one, no need for their unit using a Yamaha and Honda their power is very clean. Second they said the Yamaha and Honda inverters use a ‘floating ground’ which the PMs
Logically assumes you have a power issue. Just repeating what they told me and my experiences.

[napabill]

https://www.rvupgradestore.com/Progr...-p/18-7691.htm

[StevenD]

Greetings. I’m confused on this one. The manual for my Progressive ems hw30-c makes no mention of generator usage in the warranty. I have it hardwired in to protect the entire trailer electrical system. I’m still working on this forever project but was definitely planning on using a Honda 2200 for boondocking. One would think the ems should be one of the most robust pieces in the loop and if it didn’t like the input voltage, it just would not let it in. I did call Randy at Best Convertor today and he said that there are no issues with using my ems with a generator.

[link2dks]

Originally Posted by StevenD

Greetings. I’m confused on this one. The manual for my Progressive ems hw30-c makes no mention of generator usage in the warranty. I have it hardwired in to protect the entire trailer electrical system. I’m still working on this forever project but was definitely planning on using a Honda 2200 for boondocking. One would think the ems should be one of the most robust pieces in the loop and if it didn’t like the input voltage, it just would not let it in. I did call Randy at Best Convertor today and he said that there are no issues with using my ems with a generator.

Steve read this article, I think it will clear things up for you.

http://noshockzone.org/generator-gro...utral-bonding/

I made one of these plugs for my Champion 3500 generator just so I could see how many amps my trailer was using with my Progressive EMS-50PTX. With a hardwired EMS I believe you will need a neutral-ground bonding plug so your generator and EMS will play nice with each other.

Micro-Air sells these plugs if you don't want to make your own.

https://www.microair.net/products/ge...12272654155860

Dave S

[StevenD]

Thanks Dave.
You’re right. I also read that same article and was under the impression that I would need that plug. But I had thought that without the plug, the ems would not connect since it thought the incoming voltage was ungrounded. What would that have to do with the ems life/warranty?

[rmkrum]

Absolutely nothing. Their answer makes NO sense electrically.

[link2dks]

Originally Posted by StevenD

Thanks Dave.
You’re right. I also read that same article and was under the impression that I would need that plug. But I had thought that without the plug, the ems would not connect since it thought the incoming voltage was ungrounded. What would that have to do with the ems life/warranty?

I think there are two different issues here. First is the need for a neutral-ground bond plug if you are using a generator with a floating ground (generally inverter generators are not bonded, construction grade generators are bonded) and a EMS/surge protector together. Without the bonding plug the EMS will not allow power through it.

The second issue is what is the reason for Progressive's statement:

"Please be advised the Yamaha Generator Model EF2000iS does not generate enough start-up current which causes the unit to overload. The generator then puts out non-true Sine Wave power. Progressive Industries units are designed to operate only on True Sine Wave power.

For this reason, The Progressive Industries Warranty is hereby void if an EMS Unit is used in conjunction with a Yamaha Generator Model EF2000iS. Any damage sustained to the EMS unit are the sole responsibility of the customer."

I making an assumption here that "enough start up current" refers to starting an AC unit with a under powered generator which overloads the generator causing it to output "non-true Sine Wave power." Next assumption, "non-true Sine Wave power" will or has damaged Progressives EMS units.

As to why Yamahas EF2000iS has been singled out when many smaller generators are not capable of starting RV air conditioners (the reason for hard start capacitors) can only be guessed at.

Dave S

[StevenD]

Dave, Interesting observation. So perhaps if the a/c was never powered by the generator, then this would not be an issue?
Steve

[link2dks]

Originally Posted by StevenD

Dave, Interesting observation. So perhaps if the a/c was never powered by the generator, then this would not be an issue?
Steve

Correct, but it is really about not trying to get more watts or amps out of a generator than it can produce which would be overloading it. For example, Yamaha's EF 2000iS is rated for 2000 surge watts (start up watts the generator can put out for a short burst to start a motor) or 16 amps. Its rated watts (maximum continuous output) is 1600 watts or 13 amps. These numbers are at sea level, as altitude increases the output decreases significantly!

A 13.5K BTU air conditioner needs about 13 amps to run, more to start up, so the Yamaha EF 2000iS is maxed out.

Bottom line is know what your generator can put out at the altitude you are at and know the watt or amp requirements of the equipment you want to run. If you don't overload the generator your EMS you will not have any problems.

Dave S

[link2dks]

From Progressive's statement:

"Progressive Industries units are designed to operate only on True Sine Wave power."

Originally Posted by rmkrum

Absolutely nothing. Their answer makes NO sense electrically.

Now I get your statement Rich. What campground supplies "True Sine Wave power" at the post? Answer, NONE.

SteveD I still would be careful about overloading your generator it may in some way cause problems for your Progressive EMS.

Dave S