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Old 05-10-2017, 10:09 AM   #1
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Power issue

I have a lot and it only has 50amp service, my rig is 30 amp. When I plug in it kicks the gfi immediately I've spent a lot of time trouble shooting the issue, the trailer is fine nothing new added to trailer also am running the dog bone 50-30 cord but still kicks. I've been working and I found if I remove the neutral from gfi I'm all good. Is there away around gfi and keep the wiring the same. Thanks any info greatly appreciated.
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Old 05-10-2017, 10:21 AM   #2
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The GFI circuit protector is telling you that there is an errant ground in the trailer shore wiring system, this can be a blown element in an electric water heater or bad wiring in the fuselage. Turn off all circuit breakers in the trailer, plug in to shore power and turn on one at a time then back off to isolate which circuit has the ground fault.
Good Luck!!!
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Old 05-10-2017, 11:01 AM   #3
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First off install a 30 amp receptacle and breaker in the service panel. plugging into a 50 amp service once and a while in a campground may be acceptable but not a good long term idea.

Once you have the correct receptacle you can trouble shout the trailer as mentioned above if the problem is still there.
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Old 05-10-2017, 11:07 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HowieE View Post
First off install a 30 amp receptacle and breaker in the service panel. plugging into a 50 amp service once and a while in a campground may be acceptable but not a good long term idea.

Once you have the correct receptacle you can trouble shout the trailer as mentioned above if the problem is still there.


The rig is all original has two 20 amp breakers with a jumper going across breaker I assume to run a/c unit and its only a two slot box 1973 26t
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Old 05-10-2017, 11:49 AM   #5
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Where is the GFI breaker located that is tripping?
I am not aware there are 50 amp GFI circuit breakers.
Is the 50 amp source 240 volt? Meaning there are 2 120 volt hot legs, one neutral and one ground.
In 1973 there were no GFI breakers.
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Old 05-10-2017, 12:03 PM   #6
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The rig is all original has two 20 amp breakers with a jumper going across breaker I assume to run a/c unit and its only a two slot box 1973 26t
The panel I was referring to is the one you plug the trailer shore power cable into.
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Old 05-10-2017, 12:44 PM   #7
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I think the GFI trips because it sees a difference between neutral and ground.
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Old 05-10-2017, 12:47 PM   #8
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Would not a 220V GFI see any 120V load as a ground fault? It would be nice to see good photos of this setup. A good digital Volt/Ohm meter is a great thing to have in a case like this! Check Hot blade to ground blade and Neutral blade to ground blade on your trailer cord plug to start. I've seen cords that were damp inside the sheath cause this problem. Any path to ground that is less than about 500,000 Ohms will trip a GFI. GFI's measure the current that flows through the power conductors and if all that goes through the incoming conductor doesn't leave through the outgoing conductor they trip. I usually find the problem with an Ohm meter.
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Old 05-10-2017, 12:56 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian67 View Post
The rig is all original has two 20 amp breakers with a jumper going across breaker I assume to run a/c unit and its only a two slot box 1973 26t
Okay, this is a red flag "2-20Amp paired breakers with a 30A shore cord"=bad math(20+20 does not equal 30).
I recommend having an experienced RV electrician look into your rig, there is probably a lot more than meets the eye on this one and the last thing you want is an Airstream-B-Que.
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Old 05-10-2017, 02:55 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagemotor View Post
The GFI circuit protector is telling you that there is an errant ground in the trailer shore wiring system, this can be a blown element in an electric water heater or bad wiring in the fuselage. Turn off all circuit breakers in the trailer, plug in to shore power and turn on one at a time then back off to isolate which circuit has the ground fault.

Good Luck!!!


Now could that input interruption be from maybe not having water in the water heater, I will also pull all outlets and make sure everything is tight and properly grounded. Thank you for the input.
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Old 05-10-2017, 02:58 PM   #11
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Ask whoever wired the receptacle to come out and double check everything. Is it 220 volt? Are the grounds correct, what about the neutral?
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Old 05-10-2017, 03:06 PM   #12
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Nope

Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagemotor View Post
Okay, this is a red flag "2-20Amp paired breakers with a 30A shore cord"=bad math(20+20 does not equal 30).
I recommend having an experienced RV electrician look into your rig, there is probably a lot more than meets the eye on this one and the last thing you want is an Airstream-B-Que.
While your recommendation may be good, it is common practice (and permitted by NEC) for the sum of the breakers in a panel to exceed the rating of the main breaker. If there is no 30A main breaker in his panel, there probably should be but that may not have been a requirement when the trailer was built.

If not already done I would recommend the OP purchase an outlet tester for a few $ at a big box store and connect a 30A to 15A adapter to his dogbone. If there is a problem in the lot wiring (open ground, reversed ground and neutral, reversed hot and neutral) the tester will identify it.

If the outlet tester indicates OK, then the problem is in the trailer. If not, correct the wiring in/to the panel.

Al
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Old 05-10-2017, 03:12 PM   #13
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"plugging into a 50 amp service once and a while in a campground may be acceptable but not a good long term idea."

Why is that, Howie? Are you concerned that the dogbone adapter will prove unreliable?
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Old 05-10-2017, 03:40 PM   #14
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"plugging into a 50 amp service once and a while in a campground may be acceptable but not a good long term idea."

Why is that, Howie? Are you concerned that the dogbone adapter will prove unreliable?
In the strict view of laying out an electrical system, you want the breakers to be sized to protect the wire, and the wire sized to carry the necessary load. Since in the situation described, one would by definition be plugging a cable sized for 30A loads into an outlet protected by a 50A breaker, you'd increase the risk of a bad outcome. Most of the time the 30A main breaker at the RV end of the shore-power cord would open before the cord was damaged, but it's "not recommended." That said, I've often used my 50-to-30 when I have a site where the 30A outlet is loose or damaged and the 50A outlet is in good shape, figuring a good connection to 50A is less risky than an obviously bad connection to 30A.
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Old 05-10-2017, 03:53 PM   #15
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"plugging into a 50 amp service once and a while in a campground may be acceptable but not a good long term idea."

Why is that, Howie? Are you concerned that the dogbone adapter will prove unreliable?
In that configuration there is no fuse protection for the umbilical cable. You can't protect a 30 amp cable with a 50 amp fuse.

As for 2 20 amp breakers supplied by a 30 amp cord that is not wrong assuming each wire is properly fused. It is common to have breakers totaling more than the main breaker. That is because it is highly unlikely that all breakers will ever all be a full load at the same time.
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Old 05-10-2017, 04:06 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKB_SATX View Post
In the strict view of laying out an electrical system, you want the breakers to be sized to protect the wire, and the wire sized to carry the necessary load. Since in the situation described, one would by definition be plugging a cable sized for 30A loads into an outlet protected by a 50A breaker, you'd increase the risk of a bad outcome. Most of the time the 30A main breaker at the RV end of the shore-power cord would open before the cord was damaged, but it's "not recommended." That said, I've often used my 50-to-30 when I have a site where the 30A outlet is loose or damaged and the 50A outlet is in good shape, figuring a good connection to 50A is less risky than an obviously bad connection to 30A.


Wisdom above. Suggest reading 2x. Breakers protect wire not loads.
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Old 05-10-2017, 04:22 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by TG Twinkie View Post
Where is the GFI breaker located that is tripping?
I am not aware there are 50 amp GFI circuit breakers.
Is the 50 amp source 240 volt? Meaning there are 2 120 volt hot legs, one neutral and one ground.
In 1973 there were no GFI breakers.


Yes to hot legs coming in one neutral and one ground if I remove the neutral my rig is fine.
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Old 05-10-2017, 04:50 PM   #18
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Yes to hot legs coming in one neutral and one ground if I remove the neutral my rig is fine.
Sounds like neutral and ground are reversed. Neutral is a current carrying leg in a 120V setup like a 30A RV. Even 50A airstreams don't have 220 loads, or at least the ones up to my 2002 don't. So when you disconnected neutral everything should have stopped working.

Get an outlet tester as I recommended.

Al
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Old 05-10-2017, 05:21 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Mollysdad View Post
I think the GFI trips because it sees a difference between neutral and ground.


Could the size of wire make that difference
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Old 05-10-2017, 05:40 PM   #20
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If every thing still works when you disconnect the neutral. Assuming you do that in the coach. The neutral and the ground are bonded (connected) somewhere.
The neutral and ground are normally bonded in the source panel. Not downstream from that panel. A ground should not be a current (load) carrying conductor.
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