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lewster · 04-06-2015, 08:25 PM

OK folks,

Due to a comment that I made in another thread about a painless way to put a pair of group 27 batteries into Airstream's tongue mounted battery box, I decided to post a photo of an upgrade that I just finished. Don't know if anyone has posted this before, but it was one of those 'OMG' moments when it hit me a couple of days ago.

No more cutting, painting or sweating it.

Just look at the photo below and all will be revealed....

In fact, the threaded rod and spin-on retainer still work as there is room to move the batteries fore and aft against their respective walls, leaving enough space to replace the rod.

SteveSueMac · 04-06-2015, 08:58 PM

I'll be the first to ask the dumbest of questions (everyone else can thank me later :-) )

1) so you're going east/west instead of north/south in the box?

2) totally missed how the threaded rod can fit - looks like the batteries are touching with no space for that rod.

3) how do those get wired? My non-agm batteries have the full post and a threaded post - those Lifelines don't seem to have the added posts.

Yes - I am clueless but willing to learn. Thanks!

lewster · 04-06-2015, 09:04 PM

There is room to move the batteries apart to fit the threaded rod in, as they slide under the front and rear lips. Plenty of room for the rod. I had just dropped them in for this shot to see if they fit. THEY DID!!!

The raised posts on these Lifelines (hidden under the colored caps) are even with the top of the batteries. Most other battery brands are a bit shorter and have raised posts, but the overall height of the posts is the same.

The orientation is transverse rather than longitudinal along the front/back axis. Side to side in plain English.

These Lifelines accept the automotive style clamps on the posts and also have a bolt in the top of the post for use of eyelet type cable ends. In fact, I remove the post extenders and drop the eyelets to the actual surface of the connection area.

I'll try to get a shot from the client tomorrow and post it here.

Thanks!

mnmhays · 04-06-2015, 09:31 PM

Very nice. Any drawbacks to adding a single up there to augment my existing rear mounted battery? I plan to do a 2X6V system when I refurb the Sovereign but plan to double up the 12V on the Argosy...

lewster · 04-07-2015, 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mnmhays

Very nice. Any drawbacks to adding a single up there to augment my existing rear mounted battery? I plan to do a 2X6V system when I refurb the Sovereign but plan to double up the 12V on the Argosy...

Not a problem 'physically', but electrically as all batteries in a given battery bank should be of the same size, manufacturer and even date code, placed as close as possible. Charging problems always result from using different batteries of varying ages in the same bank.

kscherzi · 04-07-2015, 09:20 AM

Are two Group 27s a better combination or two 6 volts?

lewster · 04-07-2015, 09:22 AM

Almost the same capacity, but 6VDC golf cart batteries have displayed their durability and extended life over time.

Lew Farber
RVIA/RVDA Nationally Certified Master Tech
Master Tech Energy Systems, Inc.
AM Solar Certified Installation Center
Lifeline Batteries**Magnum Inverters
541-490-6357

lewster · 04-07-2015, 09:24 AM

I install 6VDC batteries over 12VDC batteries about 20:1

Lew Farber
RVIA/RVDA Nationally Certified Master Tech
Master Tech Energy Systems, Inc.
AM Solar Certified Installation Center
Lifeline Batteries**Magnum Inverters
541-490-6357

BoldAdventure · 04-07-2015, 09:46 AM

But the 6V's weight more.

I didn't do the above method. but have flooded 27's: http://www.airforums.com/forums/f449...al-131188.html

Then there is the Trojan 31Xhs : flooded 260 amp hours, less weight than two 6V's

KJRitchie · 04-07-2015, 09:58 AM

That is how my Grp 27 Interstates are arranged when I bought my preowned AS. I thought that was the standard orientation. I'm able to slip the rear most battery between the threaded hold down rod and the rear of the box by inserting the battery at an angle. I find removing the propane tanks gives me more room and I'm able to keep the door open more easily.

Kelvin

mnmhays · 04-07-2015, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lewster

Not a problem 'physically', but electrically as all batteries in a given battery bank should be of the same size, manufacturer and even date code, placed as close as possible. Charging problems always result from using different batteries of varying ages in the same bank.

I will be purchasing the 2 at the same time, so no issue with that. I plan to run 6 ga wire from the tongue mounted battery and do a direct ground at the tongue on the negative side.

lewster · 04-07-2015, 11:49 AM

Far better to use 4 AWG for both battery leads and have them go direct to the bus bars, then ground the negative bus bar to the frame. Less problem potential this way.

Even though I never see this on an Airatream, the positive battery lead should be attached to a fuse/circuit breaker within 18" of the positive battery terminal.

Lew Farber
RVIA/RVDA Nationally Certified Master Tech
Master Tech Energy Systems, Inc.
AM Solar Certified Installation Center
Lifeline Batteries**Magnum Inverters
541-490-6357

mnmhays · 04-07-2015, 12:12 PM

Got it. 4 AWG it is. 8 was my original battery wire, so I figured 6 was a step up. I did add a circuit breaker between my dist. block/coverter input and the battery.

WindyJim · 04-07-2015, 07:07 PM

I am impressed with the double-27 mount. That is certainly an easier upgrade than going to the golf batteries. The golf batteries do have greater capacity than the double-27's.

I went with the golf batteries and had to do several items:
1. Replace the 3/8" threaded rod (I think I went from an 8" to a 10", or a 10" to a 12", can't quite remember). Rod replacement is not easy because it is threaded through a nut which is welded on the outside bottom of the box, and then the rod is seal welded to the nut. You have to grind off about half of the nut in order to be able to unscrew the existing rod. (With the "undercoating" on the bottom of the battery box this was not evident, so thinking that you could unscrew the existing rod took a lot of time. I called the AS factory and the technicians went out on the floor to examine the bottom of the battery box, but still didn't know that the rod was welded. You cannot use a 3/8" rod coupler to extend the rod, as there is insufficient room for the larger gap required between batteries.
2. The size 24 batteries sit in a plastic shell at the bottom of the battery box. My local AS dealer just removes it and leaves it out, if they do the conversion. For me, I removed it, then cut out both ends of the plastic shell so that the golf batteries would sit on plastic in the bottom of the box.
3. The battery box has to be heightened. This was not a problem for my AS, but if someone has a forward storage outside door, they would have to have the box extended down, instead of up as I did it. I had some 1"X3" oak, so i just made a 2 1/2" extension on the top of the box, and moved the lid up, and it was fine.
4. The two new 6-volt batteries have to be wired in series, instead of in parallel as the 12-volt batteries were.
5. I had to use a "nibbling" tool to enlarge the propane tank cover cutout to fit the taller battery box (i.e. trim away 2 1/2" of aluminum to make the propane tank cover slip over the two propane tanks and fit properly)
6. The golf cart batteries don't use automotive type posts, so I had to cut off the ends of the battery cables, buy a heavy lug crimper (on ebay about $25), and crimp on some lugs to fit the new battery studs.

Notes: I didn't re-weld the battery hold-down rod, I just used lock nuts on the bottom outside. Also, I took advantage of having the batteries removed and scraped the corrosion out and reprimed and painted the inside of the battery box.

lewster · 04-07-2015, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WindyJim

I am impressed with the double-27 mount. That is certainly an easier upgrade than going to the golf batteries. The golf batteries do have greater capacity than the double-27's.

I went with the golf batteries and had to do several items:
1. Replace the 3/8" threaded rod (I think I went from an 8" to a 10", or a 10" to a 12", can't quite remember). Rod replacement is not easy because it is threaded through a nut which is welded on the outside bottom of the box, and then the rod is seal welded to the nut. You have to grind off about half of the nut in order to be able to unscrew the existing rod. (With the "undercoating" on the bottom of the battery box this was not evident, so thinking that you could unscrew the existing rod took a lot of time. I called the AS factory and the technicians went out on the floor to examine the bottom of the battery box, but still didn't know that the rod was welded. You cannot use a 3/8" rod coupler to extend the rod, as there is insufficient room for the larger gap required between batteries.
2. The size 24 batteries sit in a plastic shell at the bottom of the battery box. My local AS dealer just removes it and leaves it out, if they do the conversion. For me, I removed it, then cut out both ends of the plastic shell so that the golf batteries would sit on plastic in the bottom of the box.
3. The battery box has to be heightened. This was not a problem for my AS, but if someone has a forward storage outside door, they would have to have the box extended down, instead of up as I did it. I had some 1"X3" oak, so i just made a 2 1/2" extension on the top of the box, and moved the lid up, and it was fine.
4. The two new 6-volt batteries have to be wired in series, instead of in parallel as the 12-volt batteries were.
5. I had to use a "nibbling" tool to enlarge the propane tank cover cutout to fit the taller battery box (i.e. trim away 2 1/2" of aluminum to make the propane tank cover slip over the two propane tanks and fit properly)
6. The golf cart batteries don't use automotive type posts, so I had to cut off the ends of the battery cables, buy a heavy lug crimper (on ebay about $25), and crimp on some lugs to fit the new battery studs.

Notes: I didn't re-weld the battery hold-down rod, I just used lock nuts on the bottom outside. Also, I took advantage of having the batteries removed and scraped the corrosion out and reprimed and painted the inside of the battery box.

Sounds like you had quite a chore. You'll be happy to know that newer Airstreams do not have the threaded rod welded to the bottom of the box; you just unscrew it!

I use 2 different methods for golf cart batteries, depending on their size. for Lifeline GPL-4CT 220 amp/hour batteries (20 more amp/hours than a pair of Group 27s), I use 1 X 1-1/2" aluminum tubing to make an aluminum riser that gets riveted on top of the battery box flange. The lid is then re-attached to the riser. As you have discovered, the back center of the LP tank cover must be trimmed to accommodate the new box height.

For the taller GPL-6CT 300 amp/hour Lifelines, I use a proprietary lid made from heavy aluminum sheet. This gets screwed to the top box flange and does not use the lid, thus eliminating the need to trim the LP tank cover. Since I only install either Lifeline AGMs on the tongue, there is really no need for quick access, as they require no maintenance.

You are much better using copper eyelets on your battery cables anyway, as they are far superior to the automotive clamps that Airstream uses. I cut them off (I upgrade the battery cables anyway) to remove the old cables and replace them with 4AWG welding cable with eyelet ends and heat shrink to prevent any creeping corrosion from weather effecting the copper wire. The Lifelines don't gas so there is no corrosion from the H-2SO-4 found in liquid cells.

lewster · 04-08-2015, 09:02 PM

As promised, a better shot of the transverse Lifeline GLP-27T mounting completed.........

SteveSueMac · 04-08-2015, 09:15 PM

Well done!!

kscherzi · 04-09-2015, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lewster

I use 1 X 1-1/2" aluminum tubing that gets riveted on top of the battery box flange.

Could you clarify please? I'm having a hard time visualizing where the tubing goes. It will be one of my future projects someday. Thanks.

KJRitchie · 04-09-2015, 07:37 AM

Thanks for the info on the threaded hold down rod. I was going to attempt to unscrew it by using two nuts at the top and tightening them against each other.

Kelvin

lewster · 04-09-2015, 09:42 AM

I'm actually starting a battery/solar upgrade tomorrow on a new 19 and will be adding Lifeline GPL-4CT golf cart batteries to the external battery box. I'll take some shots when I add the aluminum riser.

Stay tuned to this channel.

Lew Farber
RVIA/RVDA Nationally Certified Master Tech
Master Tech Energy Systems, Inc.
AM Solar Certified Installation Center
Lifeline Batteries**Magnum Inverters
541-490-6357