No running lights; Lynn green-faced!!!

[eubank]

Ever since we've owned our 67, we've had problems with the running lights: Mostly work fine, but then poof, nada, zilch, nichts da. Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle the greens, and they come back on, but not from a consistent wiggle point. Sickening.

So today I finished up working on our frame sep problem on the right rear and because I'd had to work around some wiring (including a beloved green one), I decided to hook up and test the lights. Turn signals, check. Brake lights, check. Running lights -- ARGH!

Has anybody ever had a vintage model apart enough to know where the greens run to/from to operate the tail and running lights? What I need here is where the leads are underneath that beautiful, shiny skin!


Lynn

[uwe]

Originally Posted by eubank

Ever since we've owned our 67, we've had problems with the running lights: Mostly work fine, but then poof, nada, zilch, nichts da. Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle the greens, and they come back on, but not from a consistent wiggle point. Sickening.

So today I finished up working on our frame sep problem on the right rear and because I'd had to work around some wiring (including a beloved green one), I decided to hook up and test the lights. Turn signals, check. Brake lights, check. Running lights -- ARGH!

Has anybody ever had a vintage model apart enough to know where the greens run to/from to operate the tail and running lights? What I need here is where the leads are underneath that beautiful, shiny skin!


Lynn

Lynn,
On both of my trailers, the light harness ran down the streetside of the trailer, at a height above the wheel wells.
The 63 had it's umbilical cord hardwired into the front of the belly pan, where it then became part of the trailer wiring.
My 71 had a vehicle end type plug in the front panel behind the gas bottles, with an access panel on the inside to get to the rear of it. From there the wiring ran down the streetside and up, wherever there were runnig lights.
The 63 has side markers, no top markes, but the green wire ( I know, your favorite) was already roughed in at the end caps for marker lights. Musta been optional during those days.
I would check the point of entry first, make sure the connection to the pigtail are solid. There might be corrosion in the connectors. A little detective work goes a long way.
You can also employ a jumper wire. Jumper in the pig tail connector from the charge line to the running light terminal, and see if it's consistent from there. Maybe the trouble is in the tow vehicle connection.

[Andrew Selking]

I agree with Uwe start at the front and work your way back. The jumper wire is also a great idea . I would look at where the cable comes into the trailer and check the connections there. Have fun searching most electrical problems are hard to find but easy to fix.

[C Johnson]

I thought I would chime in here. On my '65 Caravel all of the wiring for the running/turnsignal/brakes ran under the floor on the curbside. There where only two places that wires ran up for marker lights. One in the rear (streetside corner)for the 5 on the back and one in the front (curbside corner) for the 5 on the front. This wiring was pretty brittle so I replaced it. I had a dead short where the wire came thru the skin on one of the side marker lights. You said you had a 67. I am thinking you have the same style of lights as I do in about the same places. Tracking down wiring probs is a bear. I agree with Uwe and Andrew. Check the TV and where the wire comes into the trailer first. Then work you way back.

1. check fuses in TV
2. Make sure that the running light terminal is working at the TV
3. Make sure that the circuit is good at the point where it enters the trailer.
4. if all this is good check your connections at the junction point where the brakes and charge line splits off. I had quite a rats nest of wires under the front of the Caravel. There should be a plate under the front of some sort you can remove to access the connections.

This should give you some clue as to what is going on with you marker lights. I am assuming of course that your 67 is wired somewhat close to my 65. If they all aren't working the prob has to be up front some place. That is unless you have a short some where. In which case you are just tripping the circuit breaker in your TV everytime you plug the AS in.

There are a variety of ways that they wired these trailers. I am beginning to think that no two are alike. It seems that everytime I read a wiring prob., even on the same year of AS, the wiring differs a bit.

Let us know what you find out.
There are a few different ways to go depending on what you find.
Good Luck !
Chris

[overlander63]

On my 63, they run in the same place as Uwe's 63, but our '72 had the green wire running up into the main longitudinal rib on the curbside, and running the length of the coach. If ALL the running lights either work, or don't, it is almost certainly a problem from the tow vehicle wiring, to the first clearance light. You could have a bad connector in the tow vehicle plug, a bad wire inside the tongue, or at the connector where the wires go into the coach.
BTW, I found another 63 Overlander, with clearance lights, it is an International model. Possibly that's why Uwe's and ours have none, they are not Internationals.

[eubank]

Oh, this is all really good info! I've got about a half a day before the weather goes downhill for the next week, so maybe I'll be able to get out and do some snooping right away!
Thank you!!!

Lynn

[uwe]

Originally Posted by overlander63

BTW, I found another 63 Overlander, with clearance lights, it is an International model. Possibly that's why Uwe's and ours have none, they are not Internationals.

Terry,
Mine was badged as an International, and it had the water filter etc. But no front and rear marker lights on the curved segments, just pre-wired for it. I do not think that Airstream took consistency very serious in the 60's.

[davidh]

UWE is right, start at the truck check for broke or corroaded wire at trailer plug connection, check both ends of cord and plug connection at front of trailer. if you start to jump around from front to back you will just end up chassing your tail, I would say that you have a broken or crroaded wire at one of the connections.

[eubank]

Yeah, I eliminated the truck as a source. I did testing by sticking one end of a test lead into the hot terminal on the trailer connector and the other end into the various other terminals: Left turn/brake, right turn/brake, brakes, and (akh!) running lights. Which all means that the source of the problem is merely somewhere in the 30 feet between the connector and the tail of the trailer.

So I guess I ought to put on my most wind-proof warm clothing, go out, and start testing before the snow starts falling.


Lynn

[eubank]

I donned my cold-weather gear and went out (and froze half to death) ... and located the problem, I think.

So knowing that the main wire would likely lead from the hitch along the curb side, I got down and looked underneath. Ugh. A patch, not original, was near the front, more or less under where you'd expect all of the wiring to go to the hitch area. The patch was screwed in, not riveted. I removed the patch, and voila! Bunches of wires, all in bright colors, including the green!

Ok, the green from the TV connector was larger (around 10 ga.), and it was wire-nutted to two smaller greens (around 8 ga. each). I took off the wire nut and tested continuity and hot:

Continuity test between connector and patch: Check.

Hot test on small green #1: lighted up the three front running lights and the front side marker on the street side.

Hot test on small green #2 lighted up all of the remaining side markers along with the two tail lights.

Cleaned up the wires, put on a new wire nut, and tested hot to running lights at the RV connector: Our Airstream is a Christmas tree!

Sooooo, thank you to all who responded this morning! Now all I have to do is to quit shivering!


Lynn

[C Johnson]

Originally Posted by eubank

Cleaned up the wires, put on a new wire nut, and tested hot to running lights at the RV connector: Our Airstream is a Christmas tree!

Sooooo, thank you to all who responded this morning! Now all I have to do is to quit shivering!


Lynn

Woo Hoo !

Glad ya got it figured out.

A question on the side, My Caravel has the three lights across the back on top and across the front too. I hear that those are an option. Terry, Uwe, does this mean that I have a Caravel with the International package ?? I was just curious why some AS's would have them and some don't in the 60' trailers.

Chris

[47WeeWind]

Originally Posted by C Johnson

A question on the side, My Caravel has the three lights across the back on top and across the front too. I hear that those are an option. Terry, Uwe, does this mean that I have a Caravel with the International package ?? I was just curious why some AS's would have them and some don't in the 60' trailers. Chris

Hi Chris:

The front and rear group of three roof top marker lights were called "cluster lights" by Airstream. In the 1960's, they were not part of the Land Yacht or International trim level packages. Instead, they were a general option available for extra cost on any Airstream. I imagine, but don't know, that some dealers may have had a policy of ordering these cluster lights on all their Airstreams while others didn't. A few customers may had specified them on customer ordered trailers. Informal observations of a very small sample of trailers leads me to think Ohio built trailers had cluster lights installed more often that California built trailers, sorta an "East Coast" thing early on.

The 1965 17' Caravel was a limited production series that was never offered as either a Land Yacht or International trim trailer. The Caravel had all of the standard features the base model Land Yacht except for the automatic gas bottle regualtor, battery charger and voltage regulator, all of which were specifically deleted from the Caravel.

[eubank]

Originally Posted by C Johnson

Woo Hoo !
Glad ya got it figured out.
Chris

Yes, well, we've had such a long and sorry history with the green circuit that I prefer to say that I worked on it, and now the lights work -- without necessarily assuming cause and effect.

Lynn

[BIGED52]

Lynn, You did such a good job on this fix and reporting back on your findings that I have sent you Karma. Good going and keep up the good work. Ed

[eubank]

Originally Posted by BIGED52

Lynn, You did such a good job on this fix and reporting back on your findings that I have sent you Karma. Good going and keep up the good work. Ed

Thank you!

If the snow holds off tonight -- we got a few inches today, but nothing dramatic -- then I'll go back to the frame sep job. The right rear -- certainly in the worst shape -- is now a done deal, so it'll be time to remove the skin on the left rear to see what there is to see there. Bumper movement is fairly minimal on that side (maybe an eighth of an inch, compared to nearly a half inch on the right), so maybe Lady Luck will be with us on this one.

And then, finally, back to replacing some Lexan windows with new glass, checking the water system (I fear we've got some breaks), checking all of the propane appliances (no problems expected, but the sail switch in the heater tends to get dirty every couple of years), getting a couple of new tires, and getting the running gear balanced. Oh, and getting the truck relicensed; discovered today that we've been driving with expired plates for two months now!

By then, ski season should be over, so we can close the park for a while and go on the road!!! This morning, Maria and I discussed some possiblities: Great Sand Dunes NP (haven't been there in decades!), Black Canyon NP (ditto), Colorado Nat'l Monument & Colorado River SP (ditto), maybe back from Grand Junction via Telluride and Durango to Pagosa Springs (hot springs!), and back home in time to prepare the park for the May onslaught of RVers!


Lynn

[uwe]

Originally Posted by eubank

Ok, the green from the TV connector was larger (around 10 ga.), and it was wire-nutted to two smaller greens (around 8 ga. each).

Lynn,

Small correction. Larger wire gauge is usually the smaller number, 8ga is thicker than 10ga. Freaky, isn't it?

[eubank]

Originally Posted by uwe

Lynn,

Small correction. Larger wire gauge is usually the smaller number, 8ga is thicker than 10ga. Freaky, isn't it?

You're absolutely right! (A good friend of mine has a name for how I was thinking when I wrote the incorrect info: Another brain fart!)


Lynn

[eubank]

Hey, Self, I'm sure glad that you posted this in such detail. I went out to test the running lights (etc.) before our trip next week, and, lo and behold, we have running lights only on the front and in the front side marker on the street side.

At least now I know where to start looking.

Thanks, Self!


Lynn

Originally Posted by eubank

I donned my cold-weather gear and went out (and froze half to death) ... and located the problem, I think.

So knowing that the main wire would likely lead from the hitch along the curb side, I got down and looked underneath. Ugh. A patch, not original, was near the front, more or less under where you'd expect all of the wiring to go to the hitch area. The patch was screwed in, not riveted. I removed the patch, and voila! Bunches of wires, all in bright colors, including the green!

Ok, the green from the TV connector was larger (around 10 ga.), and it was wire-nutted to two smaller greens (around 8 ga. each). I took off the wire nut and tested continuity and hot:

Continuity test between connector and patch: Check.

Hot test on small green #1: lighted up the three front running lights and the front side marker on the street side.

Hot test on small green #2 lighted up all of the remaining side markers along with the two tail lights.

Cleaned up the wires, put on a new wire nut, and tested hot to running lights at the RV connector: Our Airstream is a Christmas tree!

Sooooo, thank you to all who responded this morning! Now all I have to do is to quit shivering!


Lynn

[Lumatic]

You might consider getting rid of those old loose 12v light sockets and switching to no maintainance LEDs.

[eubank]

Oh, maybe someday. We've got projects that we'd like to do first, like stripping off the peeling clearcoat, doing some polishing, taking the dents out of the front bananawrap. Oh, and taking some vacations, too!

Lynn