Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 09-08-2010, 06:22 AM   #29
x
 
XXXX , XXXX
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,601
Most government (city, county etc) require permits for any wiring additions. Makes perfect sense given the homemade connections discussed here, not to mention stupid mistakes made by so called professionals.
__________________

__________________
wasagachris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2010, 07:11 AM   #30
1 Rivet Member
 
Currently Looking...
Hagerstown , Maryland
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by billberk View Post
I accidentally got plugged into 220 at the lake earlier this year and now I have a new AC, refrigerator, convertor etc...
billberk, I'm gathering data on mis-wired RV outlets for an industry report. Was this "220 at the lake" your own property, or was it a campground? Any other details would help. For instance, was this an improperly wired NEMA-5 (20 amp) or 30 amp outlet, or were you using an adapter of some kind on a 50-amp 240 volt outlet?

Thanks for any details... Mike Sokol
__________________

__________________
jmsokol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2010, 07:44 AM   #31
1 Rivet Member
 
Currently Looking...
Hagerstown , Maryland
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by wasagachris View Post
Most government (city, county etc) require permits for any wiring additions. Makes perfect sense given the homemade connections discussed here, not to mention stupid mistakes made by so called professionals.
Permits AND inspections are required in many localities. But don't expect inspectors to be any more knowledgeable about 30-amp, 120-volt plugs than your average electrician. I've followed up on a lot of "inspected" panels which don't meet NEC grounding requirements that have been in place for 10 years. And a number of southern state Inspectors have refused to follow the latest National Electric Code guidelines about AFCI (Arc Fault Circuit Interrupt) usage in new homes. They state that the $300 additional cost to a new home would be a hardship on the electrical contractors. Give me a break... adding $300 onto the price of a new $150,000 home isn't going to be a hardship for anyone. But AFCIs will detect any sparking wires and trip before they cause a fire. A GFCI (Ground Fault Circuit Interrupt) will only trip if it detects any current going to ground. I'm not sure what the upcoming 2011 NEC says about RV wiring practices, but I'll soon find out and write it up on The No~Shock~Zone.

Mike Sokol
__________________
jmsokol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2010, 08:21 AM   #32
Rivet Master
 
HowieE's Avatar
 
1991 34' Excella
Princeton , New Jersey
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,814
Images: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harleyjohn View Post
What should I expect to find when I plug the converter into a 110 line?

John
With the batteries connected to the converter you should see about 13.5 volts or more out of the converter.

For this test I would use a known 20 amp circuit and an extension cord. If the 20 amp breaker pots when you plug in the converter is toast.
__________________
WBCCI 12156 AIR 3144 WACHUNG TAC NJ6
2004 Excursion 4x4
1991 34 ft. Excella +220,000 miles, new laminated flooring, new upholstery, new 3200 lbs axles

HowieE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2010, 11:18 AM   #33
Wise Elder
 
Jammer's Avatar
 
2010 30' Classic
Vintage Kin Owner
South of the river , Minnesota
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,119
Another electrical thread with more ADVICE than FACTS. When I was new to the forums I tried to help diagnose electrical problems over the 'web until somebody almost burned themselves because they couldn't explain the problem clearly and didn't know the basic risks and safety measures involved in working with electricity.

This is an area where QUALIFIED people observing the facts IN PERSON should be a prerequisite to offering any advice or suggested steps... which then should be implemented by or under the supervision of QUALIFIED people.

Even simple advice to measure the voltage at an outlet with a multimeter can lead to injury if the person MAKING the measurement does not know that it is dangerous to proceed if ... it is raining ... the test leads are wet ... the test leads are plugged into the CURRENT jacks on the meter ... or are damaged. Or, if the person MAKING the measurement has a pacemaker, or is barefoot.

These aren't flashlight batteries we're talking about here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clyde43 View Post
Had electrician wire 30 amp at my home. Got Bambi home plugged in and breaker threw with smoke and flames. Have I fried my whole trailer? Lights still work on batteries. Don't know is reversed polarity or something else. I think electrician ran 220 to 30 amp plug is it suppose to be 120 run to it? Help please!

....

Here's the details...

Plugged into 30 amp one 20 amp breaker threw and hot smell. Then we tried (like idiots) 110/20 household plug. Fire and smoke shot out of breaker box (no breakers thrown) and we unplugged. We took off breaker box cover but saw not damage visually.

Sounds bad to me. What do yall think? Do you think breakers stopped damage or everything is gone? Now I have to find a Rv service place I trust. Any reccommendations in Alabama? Wish we were close to Ohio.
Who KNOWS? I can GUESS along with everyone else. Which breaker? Is there any thermal damage to the insulation on the wiring in the breaker panel on the trailer? Is there heat damage to the shore power cord? Is there visible damage to the breaker that tripped? Can the OP tell? Can the OP remove the breaker from the box, safely, and evaluate its condition and operation? Can the OP even remove the breaker panel cover and evaluate this situation safely without creating further risks of damage and injury?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wasagachris View Post
Clyde43 I would hold the electrician financially responsible for the damages if any to your trailer.
Exactly. No electrician should wire a TT-30R receptacle to a 240 volt circuit. Ever. If they did, they made a mistake, and they should be liable for repairs. Call your insurance agent. Call your attorney. Call the electrician who screwed it up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TG Twinkie View Post
If you run the AC on 14 gage wire, you will destroy the AC compressor motor.
That's just wrong. I'm still selling tickets to the upcoming meltfest where we're going to run an A/C on 14 gauge wire for a week at 100 volts in front of witnesses just to provide a counterexample.

Quote:
Originally Posted by billberk View Post
I accidentally got plugged into 220 at the lake earlier this year and now I have a new AC, refrigerator, convertor etc...

I should have looked at my meter but I didn't. It cost right at $5000.

Hope your damage is not as extensive.
I would be surprised to learn that such wholesale replacement was really necessary. With the fridge, for example, a fuse replacement should have been sufficient, or a replacement of the heating element if there is no fuse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 87MH View Post
Before Clyde43 proceeds I think the SRO (Service Requisition Order) needs to be examined...if the original SRO says something like "Install an RV 30 breaker..." then maybe there is a valid claim. On the other hand, if the SRO only says something like "Install a 30 amp breaker...", then without further guidance from purchaser/homeowner, the installer could easily (mis)understand that his job is to install a 30 amp dryer type of receptical (much more common).

If the whole thing was done verbally - well it's the installers word on what he UNDERSTOOD against Clyde43's word on what he WANTED.

Avoid verbal communication - especially where money and liability is concerned - get it in writing.
No electrician in any jurisdiction in the U.S. is allowed to wire an outlet for the wrong voltage even if that's what the customer says they want. Do you think you could get an electrician to wire a regular household 15A outlet for 240 volts? Even if you asked? Well, a TT-30 outlet is, specifically, a 120 volt outlet, just like the regular household 15A outlet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harleyjohn View Post
I have a '92LY and wanted to be completely prepared for all camp site electric posibilities, so I bought a 50A to 30A adapter to use at campsites where only a 50A outlet is available.
I was told that the 50A is like the other service at campgrounds and are 110/115v.
When I asked a sales person at an RV store if the camp site 50a service can be 220v.
He said that it could and that the 50/30A adapter directs each 110 leg to where it does no harm.
ANY TRUTH TO THIS INFO???
Yes, the typical 50A campground outlet is dual voltage, and the adapters are wired in a way that provides 110 volts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HowieE View Post
With 220 feeding the panel you most likely damaged any 120 system that was on when you plugged in. That may be limited to the converter if all else was turned off. If the micro wave was on the controls in it way be fried.

The refig. controls are 12 volt but if it was on the electric heating element may be open now.

You can use the 120 adapter idea to test things as long as you do not attempt to run the AC. That is the only thing that will draw more that the current limit of a 20 amp line.
I think this sort of troubleshooting advice is potentially dangerous when given to someone who has no background in electricity. For example, the heating element in the fridge could be burned out and shorted to ground.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HowieE View Post
I would disconnect the converter and test it separately on a 20 amp line as I think it is toast.
How do you KNOW? SOME converters are inherently dual voltage and can run ALL DAY on 240v. IF it is damaged do you think it is SAFE to perform such a test?

So, I would encourage everyone to STEADY ON with the well-meaning advice and consider the CAPABILITIES of the OP and the SAFETY questions such troubleshooting steps beg.

My advice for the OP is to seek out QUALIFIED professionals...

...both for the electrical troubleshooting

AND answers to the questions of who pays to clean up the mess.
__________________
Jammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2010, 05:01 PM   #34
x
 
XXXX , XXXX
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,601
Congrats Jammer someone had to say all you said. The same goes for propane. If you are not fully qualified get someone who is. Electricity and gas are dangerous things if not handled properly. Is saving a few dollars worth your life.
__________________
wasagachris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2010, 05:19 PM   #35
Rivet Master
 
Over59's Avatar
 
1959 26' Overlander
Putnam , Connecticut
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,064
Images: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by wasagachris View Post
Congrats Jammer someone had to say all you said. The same goes for propane. If you are not fully qualified get someone who is. Electricity and gas are dangerous things if not handled properly. Is saving a few dollars worth your life.
Ditto...
__________________
Over59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2010, 06:21 PM   #36
1 Rivet Member
 
Currently Looking...
Hagerstown , Maryland
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Over59 View Post
Ditto...
Double Ditto....
__________________
jmsokol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2015, 09:41 AM   #37
3 Rivet Member
 
hshovic's Avatar
 
2007 25' Safari FB SE
Bozeman , Montana
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 222
Images: 20
even the professionals....
I just had a new house built with a 30 amp outdoor receptacle next to the Airstream driveway. Just before finishing the house, I plugged the cord in and BAM! The Surgegard blew up. Turns out the electrician wired it wrong.
He said "well, there were no markings on the receptacle." He replaced
the Surgegard and fixed the wiring. Lucky for him, the Surgegard was only $300. The cost to rewire the trailer would have been more.
__________________
Hank
WBCCI 1489 AIR 20708
2015 Chevy 3/4 ton 4 x 4 gas; 2007 Safari FB SE
"Its better to light just one candle than to curse the darkness,
Unless you're blinded by the light..."
hshovic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2015, 09:52 AM   #38
1 Rivet Member
 
Currently Looking...
Hagerstown , Maryland
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by hshovic View Post
even the professionals....
I just had a new house built with a 30 amp outdoor receptacle next to the Airstream driveway. Just before finishing the house, I plugged the cord in and BAM! The Surgegard blew up. Turns out the electrician wired it wrong.
He said "well, there were no markings on the receptacle." He replaced
the Surgegard and fixed the wiring. Lucky for him, the Surgegard was only $300. The cost to rewire the trailer would have been more.
Actually, every TT-30 receptacle (the standard 30-amp/120-volt outlet you're referring to) is clearly marked "125-volt maximum". But it is rather small lettering and it's typically black-on-black. I've been trying to get the electrical industry to make the labels bigger, but it's an uphill battle. At least your electrician did the right thing and replaced what he blew up due to his miswiring. But I have emails from RV owners in similar situations that had the electrician asking the owner to cover the repair on their own homeowner's policy. And some of these repairs can be in the tens of thousands of dollars.

Mike Sokol - The No~Shock~Zone
__________________
jmsokol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2015, 10:05 AM   #39
Overland Adventurer
 
AtomicNo13's Avatar
 
1991 34' Excella
2009 34' Panamerica
Telluride , Colorado
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,885
Sounds like he did like most electricians do.... Wired it 220v!
__________________
AtomicNo13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2015, 10:51 AM   #40
Rivet Master
 
BambiTex's Avatar
 
1967 26' Overlander
1955 22' Flying Cloud
1964 17' Bambi II
Clear Lake Shores , Texas
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,150
Had the same problem on our new house. Plans called for 30 amp "RV" outlet in the garage. First time I plugged in the Bambi II it fried the Univolt and tripped the breaker. Was wired as 220 volt. I was replacing the univolt anyway so all the electrician had to do was rewire the outlet.
__________________
BambiTex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2015, 01:06 PM   #41
4 Rivet Member

 
2015 27' Flying Cloud
Portland , Oregon
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 446
Send a message via AIM to hhendrix Send a message via Yahoo to hhendrix
bump so I can watch this thread. BTW jmsokol, nice website. good info.
__________________
The ability to follow instructions is highly underrated.
hhendrix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2015, 08:34 PM   #42
Rivet Master

 
2007 22' International CCD
Corona , California
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,322
Now I'm super glad I wired my own plug--following the very clear directions right on the box.

It's been my experience the so-called professionals just assume, and do what they have always done. Had similar issues with a plumber that claimed 39 years experience when he plumbed our house and ignored my request to put the outdoor faucets on a separate circuit with a drain valve for winter. First freezing weather blew out all the hose bib lines. I fixed it the way I told him to do it, no more issues. Air won't freeze😄

I get suspicious when someone tells me 'that's the way we always do it around here...' and I know better!


Sent from my pocket Internet using Airstream Forums
__________________

__________________
KE4GNK/AE
'The Silver HamShack' (2007 International 22FB CCD 75th Aniversary model)
Multiple Yaesu Ham Radios inside and many antennae sprouting from roof, ProPride hitch
2012 shortbed crewcab 4x4 Toyota Taco TV with more antennae on it
rmkrum is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2nd Trip...Flames & All strohmdl Classic Motorhomes 9 07-30-2009 06:33 PM
30 amp plug schematic gparker Electrical - Systems, Generators, Batteries & Solar 8 07-13-2008 10:41 PM
30 amp Plug Differences Cracker Electrical - Systems, Generators, Batteries & Solar 7 09-18-2006 08:45 PM
30 amp vs. 15 amp plug? 63flyingcloud Electrical - Systems, Generators, Batteries & Solar 7 09-29-2005 01:26 PM
got flames? john hd Airstream Motorhome Forums 3 02-09-2003 08:54 PM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:41 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.