New 214 AH AGM 6Volt fits Battery Box

[Vantair]

http://usbattery.com/products/us-agm-batteries/us-agm-6v27/

Needing 2 new deep cycles after upgrading converter to new PD 4655vl which now comes
with Flooded,Gell,AGM, Lithium jumpers (Thanks Randy!)

Really trying not to modify the 2005 Intl CCD battery box and going crazy wanting
Either of the standard best bets. 1 & 2 or Trojans which are too tall.
Likely going the 2-6V in series this time. Only have 9.5 inches high allowed for battery clearance
9-7/8 to lid. All other dimentions seem ok.

1. BattleBorn 12V 100AH Lithium @900.00 / 30 lbs each (fits)

2. Lifeline GPL4CT 6V 220AH AGM @326.00 / 66 lbs each (too tall)

3. US Battery USAGM 6V27 6V 214AH AGM @250.00 / 58 lbs each (fits with spare height!!)

The US Battery AGM has it all except public reviews. Their Flooded
Batterys are US made and very well regarded we understand. Their AGMs are made off shore
For them. We realize the chance going outside the "proven standards" out there.

Any experience out there with the US Battery AGMs? These guys could be the next best solution
for us ASers without need to modify pre 2016 AS battery boxes.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

If it's just a matter of what fits, a pair of BattleBorn's will give you twice the usable capacity. One would *hope* they last a whole lot longer than the lead acids as well. Does that justify the higher price? ... hmmm....

Bob

[Vantair]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

If it's just a matter of what fits, a pair of BattleBorn's will give you twice the usable capacity. One would *hope* they last a whole lot longer than the lead acids as well. Does that justify the higher price? ... hmmm....

Bob

Yup ! And reason got on the phone with B.B. ready to order two when the hmmmmm hit me...
Almost 4 x the cost for spec’d usable 214ah (@50% DOD). Hopefully never below 30%.

Just found another similar sized AGM solution from “Centennial” 200ah 279.00 ea (also a sweet 8.9in height) few pounds heavier than US Batteries so perhaps more lead and lifespan ?

Anyone have experience Centennial AGMs ?

[steverino]

Originally Posted by Vantair

Yup ! And reason got on the phone with B.B. ready to order two when the hmmmmm hit me...

Almost 4 x the cost for spec’d usable 214ah (@50% DOD). Hopefully never below 30%.

Not understanding this; Usable AHr for the two 214 AHr 6v AGM batteries is 107 AHr at 50% SOC. Unless you are comparing 2 Battleborns to 4 of the AGMs.

[Hein]

Looks like a group 27 size in which case you might consider FullRiver DC220-6 or DC105-12



http://www.fullriverbattery.com/prod...teries/DC220-6


http://www.fullriverbattery.com/prod...eries/DC105-12

[Vantair]

Originally Posted by Hein

Looks like a group 27 size in which case you might consider FullRiver DC220-6 or DC105-12



http://www.fullriverbattery.com/prod...teries/DC220-6


http://www.fullriverbattery.com/prod...eries/DC105-12

Hein,,

Yes, those could do as well and suspect from weight also more lead/life.

[Vantair]

Originally Posted by steverino

Not understanding this; Usable AHr for the two 214 AHr 6v AGM batteries is 107 AHr at 50% SOC. Unless you are comparing 2 Battleborns to 4 of the AGMs.

To our simple understanding, two batteries 6v 214ah each (107ah usable each) wired in series x2=214ah / 12V is available at the 50% usable rate.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by Vantair

Yup ! And reason got on the phone with B.B. ready to order two when the hmmmmm hit me...
Almost 4 x the cost for spec’d usable 214ah (@50% DOD). Hopefully never below 30%.

Just found another similar sized AGM solution from “Centennial” 200ah 279.00 ea (also a sweet 8.9in height) few pounds heavier than US Batteries so perhaps more lead and lifespan ?

Anyone have experience Centennial AGMs ?

Hi

With the lead acid's you can only get about half of the amp hours as useful power. A 220 AH lead acid gives you 110AH from full charge to 50% (where you stop to avoid damage).

The lithiums work differently and are rated differently. The 100AH rating refers to the usable amp hours on the battery. Generally it's a 100% to 10% sort of number. Lithiums are quite happy to operate over that kind of range. There is no need to limit them at something like 50%.

Bottom line is that a 100AH 12V lithium gives you the same usable power in the RV as a 200AH lead acid stack. Yes, that's a bit weird. It also is a function of lead acid specs dating back to the 1800's and lithium specs being much more modern.

Next up is life of the batteries. Most lead acid manufacturers talk about something like 800 charge / discharge cycles on the battery at low discharge rates. The number is highly dependent on the depth of discharge, so you can find all sorts of numbers to quote. Lithiums get cycle number ratings in the 3,000 to 5,000 range. Those are for 100A or 20A discharge rates on a 100AH battery. Bottom line is that cycle life is rated to be *much* higher (like 6X) for the lithiums.

Many people have observed that regardless of charge cycles, lead acid's have a limited lifetime. Even with modest charge cycling, getting 5+ years out of a set is not what most people see. Many change out batteries in 3 or 4 years. It is alleged that lithiums have a 20+ lifetime on the same sort of basis. We haven't been running lithiums for 20 years so, only time will tell.

So right out of the starting gate, you need 2X the amp hours of lead acid. Next up is the likelihood that lithiums last a whole lot longer. As an example, one 100AH lithium (at $1,000 delivered) on day one is the same as two $500 100AH lead acids. If the lithium lasts 4X as long, that goes to $125 for the tradeoff price on the lead acids. At 6X the magic tradeoff number would be $83.

Are lithiums the perfect answer to all battery needs? Of course they aren't. They do have their issues. They are a new technology and there most certainly is risk involved. The upfront cost is high and the analysis above does not factor in any "cost of money". On the flip side, running out of battery every few years has a cost as well.

Lots of factors .....

Bob

[HiHoAgRV]

Originally Posted by Vantair

To our simple understanding, two batteries 6v 214ah each (107ah usable each) wired in series x2=214ah / 12V is available at the 50% usable rate.

Not quite. 2x 6v batteries double the voltage but not the AH capacity. (107 usable)

2x 12v batteries double the AH but not the voltage.

[Vantair]

[QUOTE=HiHoAgRV;2123784]Not quite. 2x 6v batteries double the voltage but not the AH capacity. (107 usable)

2x 12v batteries double the AH but not the voltage.

HiHoAgRV and steverino,

Got it now. Argh ! Embarrassingly, I work professionallly in low voltage electronics and this somehow got by me!

Someone or battery shop authority in past indicated the ah would add as well and thus the overwhelming reason to go 2) 6v in Series vs 2) 12v in parallel.

Suspect it was the substantial plate construction and thus battery lifespan / “capacity” in those terms that would double / triple in theory.

Perhaps for a physics excersise, why a series batteries own internal ah capacity from a slow discharge perspective not add together as well ? Yes. The laws of physics always apply...but why would it stay the same now having “two sources” of equal ah?

Getting that the combined total discharge C rating certainly would not add together.

[uncle_bob]

[QUOTE=Vantair;2123895]

Originally Posted by HiHoAgRV

Not quite. 2x 6v batteries double the voltage but not the AH capacity. (107 usable)

2x 12v batteries double the AH but not the voltage.

HiHoAgRV and steverino,

Got it now. Argh ! Embarrassingly, I work professionallly in low voltage electronics and this somehow got by me!

Someone or battery shop authority in past indicated the ah would add as well and thus the overwhelming reason to go 2) 6v in Series vs 2) 12v in parallel.

Suspect it was the substantial plate construction and thus battery lifespan / “capacity” in those terms that would double / triple in theory.

Perhaps for a physics excersise, why a series batteries own internal ah capacity from a slow discharge perspective not add together as well ? Yes. The laws of physics always apply...but why would it stay the same now having “two sources” of equal ah?

Getting that the combined total discharge C rating certainly would not add together.

Hi

The "confusion" is often a deliberate effort to get you to swap over to a different set of batteries. Internally the 12V battery is six 2V's in series. A six volt is just three 2V's in series. Hooking up two six volt batteries just gets you back to the right number of cells in series to give you 12V. No real magic involved.

========

One of the issues with batteries is plate spacing. Different markets are tolerant of different things. An application that wears out a set of batteries in under two years ( golf carts) doesn't care much about long term storage. Drop the spacing and you get more capacity. Another tradeoff is the self discharge rate goes up along with the life going down.

Why all this babble? The Trojan T-105 is the thing that is the grandfather of all the 6V conversions. It's a golf cart battery. If you take a look at their spec sheet, they consider 15% self discharge in a month to be "ok". Why? Close plates ...( and maybe some other stuff as well ....who knows).

Bob

[SilverHouseDreams]

The short of it is: in cells/batteries series increases voltage. In parallel increases capacity, but voltage remains the same.

https://www.batterystuff.com/kb/arti...-tutorial.html