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Old 06-01-2019, 10:14 AM   #15
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IMHO, you need these to protect your AS
  • power surge suppressor
  • arc fault outlets in the food area
  • GFI outlets in areas that may get wet
  • lightning arrestor on any antenna, cable or satellite inlet
  • water pressure regulator and filter
  • wheels locks
  • hitch lock
  • door lock
  • VPN for network connections
  • DC- DC converter to isolate TV from AS

as a wise man once said, if you can think about something occurring , it can occur. thus its not if, but when.

cheaper to protect yourself that fix it afterwords
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Old 06-01-2019, 10:17 AM   #16
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Very interested in the lockbox. Can you show a picture or give some specs (ei. manufacture or dimensions). I would like to have something like that for when I have to use an extra 30 amp extension.
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Old 06-01-2019, 10:23 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xrvr View Post
That daisey chain set up has been usedfor years.
That does not make it good or right. Sounds like a nightmare to me.
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Old 06-01-2019, 10:38 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Gsmblue View Post
That does not make it good or right. Sounds like a nightmare to me.
If it's a nightmare to you, then obviously you haven't ever attended any Airstream rally in the last 50+ years, where you are provided rally power. That is 3 amps, which is enough to only operate your converter, and NOTHING ELSE. PERIOD. Every rally I attend, there are entire rows of trailers that lose power because some yahoo decided that 3 amps couldn't apply to them, because they needed to use a hair dryer or microwave.
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Old 06-01-2019, 12:03 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle_bob View Post
Hi

First up - indeed, always use a *good* surge protector. The EMS variety from Progressive is a good choice. Yes, they will disconnect you from time to time. That's exactly what they are supposed to do !!!

Fried converter .... hmmm ..... real easy way to do that is to loose the neutral on a 240V circuit. You then get some nutty high voltage on the lightly loaded side of the circuit. The EMS will not detect the neutral going wacky. It *will* detect the leg going above 120V and disconnect for that reason. A normal "non smart" surge protector should do the same thing.

Strange nonsense on the TV cable grounds ( HDMI is on the TV ground) ? That suggests that you either had the ground to neutral or something like that. The "normal" hookup isolates power neutral from power ground. Neutral goes nuts and ground stays solid. If somebody "up the chain" hooked ground to neutral ... yikes ....

To be abundantly clear about this: Page 8-20 in the 2019 Classic owners manual shows the inside of the power center. There is one "lump" labeled "ground bus" another one is labeled "neutral bus". They are separate for a reason. You very much do *not* want to get them confused. If you are playing around in the power center, keep that in mind.

Just to complete things, this is also the reason you put in a ground jumper when you hook up a generator. The trailer does not connect the two lines. It expects them to be connected outside the trailer (at the power source and *only* at the source).

Bob


Bob....could you please explain, in layman's terms what you mean by this...

Just to complete things, this is also the reason you put in a ground jumper when you hook up a generator. The trailer does not connect the two lines. It expects them to be connected outside the trailer (at the power source and *only* at the source).

Thanks
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Old 06-01-2019, 12:05 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turk123 View Post
We are at Alumapolosa and are at the Holloway camp area. The Airstream folks provide a Hodge podge of electrical wiring and 4 trailers split 20 amps. When we hooked up the electrical my outer skin was electrified! They brought back the electricians to repair the lines on the ground.
. . .


Did this initial connection to their appararently bad wiring causing some arcing inside your trailer [and a new hidden short?], which then caused the remaining problems? What is the chain of causation here, if you can take an educated guess?

Did you use a surge protector when you did your initial connection to the "Hodge podge?"

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Old 06-01-2019, 12:29 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverWind View Post
Bob....could you please explain, in layman's terms what you mean by this...

Just to complete things, this is also the reason you put in a ground jumper when you hook up a generator. The trailer does not connect the two lines. It expects them to be connected outside the trailer (at the power source and *only* at the source).

Thanks
One of the things a protection device is looking for is a bonded neutral/ground. This bonding should not occur within the trailer.

At a campground pedestal, or your house, the neutral and ground are connected (bonded) at the meter.

Some generators have a bonded neutral/ground, connected within the generator itself.

Some generators do not have a bonded neutral/ground, called a floating neutral. This type of generator needs a wire jumper between ground/neutral, or testing and protection devices will recognize this as a fault. It is not necessary for safety.

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Old 06-01-2019, 12:30 PM   #22
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I suspect bob was talking about one of these.


https://www.microair.net/products/ge...12272654155860
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Old 06-01-2019, 01:52 PM   #23
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"That daisey chain set up has been usedfor years. Works as long as everyone follows the rules."

"Everyone following the rules" would have to include the so-called electricians (were they really, or were they just self-appointed "experts"?) who created this unsafe setup. Let's review a first-hand description of the situation:

The Airstream folks provide a Hodge podge of electrical wiring and 4 trailers split 20 amps. When we hooked up the electrical my outer skin was electrified! They brought back the electricians to repair the lines on the ground. Yesterday I adjusted my hitch and as I was kneeling and grabbing the hitch, I got knocked backward by a charge of electricity.

In the afternoon a wire nut got hot and melted through so the wires shorted against the metal box. It sent the voltage through 8 trailers including mine. It completely fried two trailers converters, blew out a surge protector and fried my HDMI mono price box and melted my HDMI cables ends.


This was an extremely dangerous electrical lash-up that could easily have killed someone. It was sheer luck that it only fried a few trailers, rather than a few trailer owners. I don't care what unsafe practices were common years ago; this should never have been allowed to happen. Far better to include the words "DRY CAMPING ONLY" in the get-together announcement than to risk the lives and equipment of attendees with a grossly inadequate and incorrectly wired ad hoc electrical system. I have a Progressive Industries EMS, but I would never connect to such a setup.

"Does not surprise me that the new type owners and new type trailers fouled this up."

You've got to be kidding. To blame the victims of what was clearly an unsafe setup is way out of line.
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Old 06-01-2019, 03:02 PM   #24
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this is a VERY dangerous situation.

if i was at the event, i would call the police and the local city inspector. they must all follow code. In some countries , you can lose your job, licence to work and or go to jail. In most countries, the people that are responsible for the hazardous deployment will go to jail if and when someone gets hurt or dies

the EMS device is great. it is mounted inside our AS so that its is always inline and keeps us safe

shame on AS Corporate for allowing this to happen
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Old 06-01-2019, 03:19 PM   #25
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Hot Skin

This is a problem that is being addressed very seriously
On RV Forums and I would suggest the excellent YouTube’s
that are provided dealing with the subject

Surge protectors are good but you are best
To test the skin with a digital volt meter. Or a logic probe.

It’s all part of improper grounding. Death could occur. Some people notice pets
Not wanting to touch the trailer stems. That’s a clue!
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Old 06-01-2019, 03:29 PM   #26
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They’re expanding and building out the Airstream factory enterprise like crazy in Jackson Center but are not providing top of the line infrastructure support to their own sponsored Alumapaloosa event? Seriously? “Hodge-podge” wiring for electricity which could fry not only Airstreams but their owners? Again, seriously? Airstream corporate needs to get their priorities straight. This seems like a great way to get sued.
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Old 06-01-2019, 04:24 PM   #27
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My 1966 & 2 1967 AS had small white indicator light above water heater shore power cord that if lit polarity wrong would get small shock, remedy was turn plug over, then polarity was correct. 76 does not have light. In late 60s was at northern Il. rally at Amboy Il, rained hard water was up to floor of all AS, every body was daisy chained to elect. We waded in knee deep water, no one got shocked or died. Guess we all were lucky as no one unhooked electric. NEVER AGAIN stupid doings.
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Old 06-01-2019, 04:46 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paprika View Post
"That daisey chain set up has been usedfor years. Works as long as everyone follows the rules."

"Everyone following the rules" would have to include the so-called electricians (were they really, or were they just self-appointed "experts"?) who created this unsafe setup. Let's review a first-hand description of the situation:

The Airstream folks provide a Hodge podge of electrical wiring and 4 trailers split 20 amps. When we hooked up the electrical my outer skin was electrified! They brought back the electricians to repair the lines on the ground. Yesterday I adjusted my hitch and as I was kneeling and grabbing the hitch, I got knocked backward by a charge of electricity.

In the afternoon a wire nut got hot and melted through so the wires shorted against the metal box. It sent the voltage through 8 trailers including mine. It completely fried two trailers converters, blew out a surge protector and fried my HDMI mono price box and melted my HDMI cables ends.


This was an extremely dangerous electrical lash-up that could easily have killed someone. It was sheer luck that it only fried a few trailers, rather than a few trailer owners. I don't care what unsafe practices were common years ago; this should never have been allowed to happen. Far better to include the words "DRY CAMPING ONLY" in the get-together announcement than to risk the lives and equipment of attendees with a grossly inadequate and incorrectly wired ad hoc electrical system. I have a Progressive Industries EMS, but I would never connect to such a setup.

"Does not surprise me that the new type owners and new type trailers fouled this up."

You've got to be kidding. To blame the victims of what was clearly an unsafe setup is way out of line.
What rules? Never heard a word about detailed rules for electrical hookups at the last International Rally. We ended up relying on our 500 watt solar array which was just fine. We also had a component that allows us to use our AC with our generator installed by the Micro-Air crew at the rally so we off grid.

I realize that these events are put on by very well meaning volunteers and my hats off to them. However, as others have said here, you are ultimately responsible for the safety and security of you rigs and yourselves. The better informed you are the better off you'll be. So....thanks to AirForums and our participants for raising our collective consciousness.
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