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Old 05-14-2010, 12:06 PM   #15
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EMS Power Switch

Dan,

I installed an EMS Power unit in my trailer. It is the EMS unit in my trailer that waits for the 20 to 40 seconds before allowing the shore power to turn on in the trailer. If you have one of these units, I believe you have to turn it off if you are using a generator. Something about the ground to the EMS get confused. The EMS does this to save the compressor in the air conditioner. Something about releasing the head pressure in the compressor on a power failure.

EMS stands for Electronic Monitering System. I purchased mine from Progressive industries.

It would be nice if this is your problem.

Mark
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Old 05-14-2010, 01:20 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by markjoandall View Post
Dan,

I installed an EMS Power unit in my trailer. It is the EMS unit in my trailer that waits for the 20 to 40 seconds before allowing the shore power to turn on in the trailer. If you have one of these units, I believe you have to turn it off if you are using a generator. Something about the ground to the EMS get confused. The EMS does this to save the compressor in the air conditioner. Something about releasing the head pressure in the compressor on a power failure.

EMS stands for Electronic Monitering System. I purchased mine from Progressive industries.

It would be nice if this is your problem.

Mark
Mark,

Thank you.

I hate sounding so stupid, but I do not know if I have a "EMS Power unit ", but I will know before the day is out. ;>)

I will need to study the thing, but there is an aftermarket gizmo mounted on the wall in the living area. This thing has to do with the roof mounted solar panel. It displays the battery state and status of charging from the solar panel. I'll take a closer look at it and it's paperwork today.

YESTERDAY, I took my generators to the local Honda shop where I had purchased both units. The tech is sharp and is known in the community for his competency. He liked me, so it only cost me $15.66 for him to troubleshoot the gens. ;>)

He had them for about an hour. He told me that both gens were in perfect condition, in tune, and in all ways they were within specs. Well, they should be... the Companion is new and the 3 year old gen has about 20 "easy hours" on it.

If I can't get the problem identified and resolved, I'm going to forget about it for this season. Both gens operating alone just fine, as well as working in tandem when connected at the side receptacle... so I can get through this camping season, I think. After the season, I may very well gut the electronics, and replace/upgrade all of it.

Maybe I'll get lucky today... it is a new day. ;>)

Dan
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Old 04-13-2013, 05:27 AM   #17
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Dans question

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Originally Posted by Gator113 View Post
Mark,

Thank you.

I hate sounding so stupid, but I do not know if I have a "EMS Power unit ", but I will know before the day is out. ;>)

I will need to study the thing, but there is an aftermarket gizmo mounted on the wall in the living area. This thing has to do with the roof mounted solar panel. It displays the battery state and status of charging from the solar panel. I'll take a closer look at it and it's paperwork today.

YESTERDAY, I took my generators to the local Honda shop where I had purchased both units. The tech is sharp and is known in the community for his competency. He liked me, so it only cost me $15.66 for him to troubleshoot the gens. ;>)

He had them for about an hour. He told me that both gens were in perfect condition, in tune, and in all ways they were within specs. Well, they should be... the Companion is new and the 3 year old gen has about 20 "easy hours" on it.

If I can't get the problem identified and resolved, I'm going to forget about it for this season. Both gens operating alone just fine, as well as working in tandem when connected at the side receptacle... so I can get through this camping season, I think. After the season, I may very well gut the electronics, and replace/upgrade all of it.

Maybe I'll get lucky today... it is a new day. ;>)

Dan
Dan...did you ever get an answer? I have the EXACT issue.

Weldon
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Old 04-13-2013, 09:28 AM   #18
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I would suggest an electrician verify the wiring in the front power receptacle to see if there is a loose wire or some other abnormality in that device. I would also check the power cords for continuity in case a wire is frayed internally and the resistance drops the voltage from the generator.
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Old 04-13-2013, 11:08 AM   #19
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This is a real head scratcher. However, from your description it all seems to point to a transfer switch in the Airstream. Most transfer switches (and I don't know the one in your rig specifically) have a small delay switch in them, plus a relay. The delay switch is connected directly across the input terminals, so when the generator (your front outlet) is connected a very small heater inside the delay switch heats up and then in about 20 seconds sends power to the coil of the relay which then connects the trailer to the front outlet. There will be a clicking sound when that larger relay pulls in.

Now, if, for some reason the little thermal delay switch is inactivated, the main relay will drop out (more clicking) and the power will stop.

Now why this is happening only with your old Honda, and not the new one is what bothers me and why it happens with the two of them connected together is another problem in my mind, but it still seems to point to the delay system switch in the trailer.

When you use the rear (main) power input to the trailer, both generators and the shore power all work properly. That is consistent with the default position of the main transfer relay, which is set to take rear inputs directly.

There is something going on with the transfer switch and the way it relates to the electronics on the old Honda that seems to be the problem. The electronics on the newer Honda seem to behave a bit differently. I do not think it is a Honda issue though, I feel it is a delay relay problem. When the two Honda's are paralleled the old one may be the control and cause both to act like the old (electronically).

Now, the only delay switches I have seen are little thermal ones, and they are very simple heat activated devices. But that does not mean that in this age of electronics that some other solid state kind is in your unit, and "fights" with the electronic controls in your old Honda.

That is my best shot. At least you know you can use the rear input to your trailer and both or either generators will work. If all else fails and you don't want to fiddle with it anymore, just use the rear input of power for your generators, rather than the front one which involves the delay system and main power relay.
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Old 04-13-2013, 11:39 AM   #20
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The first thing I would check would be for dirty connections. It seems that the older Honda is not satisfying the requirements for the transfer relay to stay closed.

As far as the EMS, if there is one installed it is probably installed on the main shore power line and not the front generator input line, since inverter gens put out much cleaner power than you can expect from shore power. This is how I've wired mine.

The reason I would check for corrosion on all plugs and connections. Last week my EMS started disconnecting my shore power when I turned on my Electric water heater, a fairly high draw item. When I turned off the water heater the EMS would allow the power to come back on. A head scratcher since the EMS is testing the incoming electricity, not the stuff downline of the power distribution. The error code on the EMS showed an open ground. But the yellow power tester that came with the AS showed the ground was connected, but the ground test light seemed dimmer than normal. I cleaned my plug connections, and got a good strong ground indication and the EMS now likes the connection and I can run all my high draw stuff again.

It doesn't take much corrosion to screw things up.


BTW this is the transfer relay I have. I suspect you have the same.
http://www.parallaxpower.com/ATS301/...01%20REV_B.pdf
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Old 04-14-2013, 09:29 AM   #21
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Another easy option would be to spray contact cleaner on both ends of the power cords and into their respective sockets.
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Old 04-14-2013, 10:27 AM   #22
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Another easy option would be to spray contact cleaner on both ends of the power cords and into their respective sockets.
Exactly
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Old 04-14-2013, 10:43 AM   #23
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I had to repair my front plugin as a wire was loose and would not allow it to work. I origionally though it was the change over relay.
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