Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-10-2012, 04:59 PM   #15
Rivet Master
 
richinny's Avatar
 
2011 34' Classic
Westchester Cty.NY , / Miami FL
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,122
dznf0g, i hear 'ya but from what i've read all you're going to get is a nice load test. it looks to me that your batteries will start your truck/car.

starting batteries are built for a short burst of high amps and deep cycles are built for low/slow drains and deep discharging. apples/oranges

think of a vehicle that won't start from a low battery, it will play the radio for long time just fine :-)
__________________

__________________
Ricky
2012 F150 Super Crew 5-1/2' bed Ecoboost 4x4 3.73 elec. lock diff. Propride hitch
give life. kidney & pancreas transplant 9/9/06
Ingrid-my unofficial '"World's Oldest Streamer" 1909-2008 R.I.P.
richinny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2012, 05:28 PM   #16
Site Team
 
, Minnesota
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,940
Images: 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by dznf0g View Post
Mark, that's not really true. Although they are fully automatic and idiot proof, they test individual cells through software analysis....of something proprietary, I suppose. They don't spell out what may cause a failure...it is a pass fail with only a CCA readout that is not coded. But, GM uses these codes for engineering failure analysis and warranty cost management. That is why I have one provided to me. A warranty claim will not pay without the code provided on the claim. Each code is unique to the test run on that battery.
I not afraid to change my opinion. I think it would be a great addition to my toolbox. Wishing I had access to one.

Congratulations. Keep us posted on your results.
__________________

__________________
markdoane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2012, 05:30 PM   #17
Rivet Master
 
dznf0g's Avatar

 
2007 30' Classic
Oswego , Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,400
Images: 5
I'll see if Interstate or Midtronics can tell me something, but I'm not holding my breath.
__________________
-Rich-

"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." - Red Green
dznf0g is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2012, 05:34 PM   #18
Rivet Master
 
dznf0g's Avatar

 
2007 30' Classic
Oswego , Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,400
Images: 5
This is what I do know. It gives CCA readout. It can tell if you have a surface charge, need to charge (of course). Runs a different test if in the car or out. Runs a different test if it is above or below 32*....that's all I can think of right now. The rest is "invisible".
__________________
-Rich-

"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." - Red Green
dznf0g is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2012, 09:25 PM   #19
Rivet Master
 
Tom Nugler's Avatar

 
1972 25' Tradewind
Currently Looking...
McHenry County , Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,129
Images: 5
I feel your pain.
VW/Audi has had the Midtronics testers as a minimum requirement for 15+ years.
We've had 3 different models and I've never found a correlation between the ratings available on in the tester and the deep cycle batteries used in RVs.
The ones we use have an AH rating in the listings but I used it on a 3 month old 105 AH, just charged battery and while it read out the static voltage it returned a recharge error message. I believe it has to due with the design of the plates. 100 years ago when I started in the biz I think AH was the only rating on the batteries from Germany.
I've also tried e-mailing support and never got an answer back.
I'm not sure which tester GM uses as they've been off of our location for 4 years.
For the readers here I'll describe the import ones we use. They have menus for Regular/LA and AGM/Spiral batteries, in or out of car testing. Then DIN, JIS, CA, CCA and AH ratings. Input the value of the rating and press enter. Then enter the RO number and last 4 of the VIN to print out the algorithmic code used by the bean counters at warranty. (Yeh, too much technology.)
Maybe an ancient, dust covered, SUN carbon pile tester forgotten in the corner would give better result.

Tom
__________________
AirForums # 2806
WBCCI / VAC # 6411
TAC IL-11

Not All Who Wander Are Lost.

Avid supporter of trailing edge technology.
Tom Nugler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2012, 07:43 AM   #20
Rivet Master
 
dznf0g's Avatar

 
2007 30' Classic
Oswego , Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,400
Images: 5
Thanks, Tom. I guess maybe the only way to draw any conclusions would be to test a bunch of suspect and bad Deep Cycle batts and see how the tool behaves with various input settings and compare to traditional "long hand" test procedures.

I just don't have access to a bunch of marine/rv batteries and mine are not suspect. All I can determine is that they show good up to a cca input of 1300CCA...then they fail, presumably only due to a low CCA present (1080).

You have a much newer one at work than I have. Mine was assigned about 10 years ago, is for LA batts only, has no printer, and only gives, I think, a 6 digit code. The dealers are required to have the newer one. Mine works fine for verifying defective warranty batteries in the scrap bin.
__________________
-Rich-

"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." - Red Green
dznf0g is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2012, 02:57 PM   #21
Rivet Master
 
dznf0g's Avatar

 
2007 30' Classic
Oswego , Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,400
Images: 5
OK, so here's the spec on the Interstate SRM-29 (group 29) RV/Marine batt.

RV Deep-Cycle/Starting Batteries

210 RC and 675 CCA (How is RC calculated?)

93 aH by 15Amp method
106 aH by 5 Amp method (right????)

Here was the answer from Midtronics: (name withheld pending permission from author of the email to disclose)

"Hello Rich,
I'm afraid not. Years ago, a VERY generic rule of thumb was multiply aH x 3. However, that's not going to be reliable. There is simply too much variation in battery designs. We get this question a lot, and here is my answer that I keep on file:

Ideally, you need a cranking value to test against. If the battery does not have one listed, then first contact the battery supplier or manufacturer to request a CCA, CA, or MCA value -or any other value that your tester has available (CCA is recommended). The next best thing would be if you have access to new batteries of the exact same kind (same manufacturer, everything same). You would take readings on a sample of say 10 new and fully-charged batteries, add it up and divide by 10 to get an average and use that as your test number going forward. You may need to tweak it up or down as you gain experience, but that’s a good starting point. Now that you have a CCA or other valid cranking value to use, let’s make sure that we’re clear on what the test results mean. Testing a deep-cycle battery against a known cranking value provides useful information, but is not a definitive test. I have an analogy: Think of a cranking battery as a sprinter, and a deep-cycle battery as a long-distance runner. A deep-cycle battery that meets its’ cranking performance may not meet its’ deep-cycling capacity (it may run the sprint but not the marathon). A battery that passes an established cranking value ensures two things: 1. The battery meets its’ cranking rating, and 2. The battery has no gross failures such as a bad-cell or short. Both are positive indicators, but, again, not a guarantee that the battery will meet its’ deep-cycle rating. Still, a good CCA test with one of our testers is better than the alternative of a timed-discharge test –and it’s certainly better than guessing or just going by voltage and time-in-service, etc. I hope that this information helps!So multiplying be 3 isn't too accurate (that would equal 630 in my case vs. 675 per Interstate."

The one thing I can't really figure out.. I couldn't make my batts fail until I erroneously input 1300CCA I know by batteries are healthy, but double the spec??????
__________________
-Rich-

"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." - Red Green
dznf0g is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2012, 03:19 PM   #22
Rivet Master
 
dznf0g's Avatar

 
2007 30' Classic
Oswego , Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,400
Images: 5
Found it:
RC (Researve Capacity)

BCI defines it as "the number of minutes a new, fully-charged battery at 80ļF (27ļC) can be discharged at 25 amps and maintain a voltage equal to or higher than 1.75 volts per cell" (i.e., 10.5 volts for a 12-volt battery). This rating represents the time the battery will continue to operate essential accessories in the event of a charging system failure.
__________________
-Rich-

"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." - Red Green
dznf0g is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2012, 11:50 AM   #23
Wise Elder
 
Jammer's Avatar
 
2010 30' Classic
Vintage Kin Owner
South of the river , Minnesota
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,119
Hi dzn.

There are a number of true deep cycle Group 27 batteries that also bear a CCA rating, which is usually in the vicinity of 600 CCA. I would use that as a starting point as you test batteries. The Interstate Marine battery you mention lacks an amp-hour rating and is better understood as mainly a starting battery.

I don't have any inside knowledge on how the Midtronics tester works, but I would imagine that won't "fail" batteries until they only deliver around half their rated CCA. The CCA rating is a "when new" rating and deteriorates slowly over time. Batteries that have really failed usually won't deliver more than 20-25% of their original CCA in my experience, and often less than that.

In other words, the setting doesn't matter that much -- there are few marginal batteries out there that will pass at, say, 400 CCA while failing at 800 CCA.
__________________
To learn to see below the surface, you must adjust your altitude
Jammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2012, 11:56 AM   #24
Rivet Master
 
dznf0g's Avatar

 
2007 30' Classic
Oswego , Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,400
Images: 5
I suppose if I really want to know, I should run my batts down to 50% and maybe 75% while in the AS. The Trimetric monitor will measure the aH used since last charge and its corresponding voltage. I was looking for a way for this tool to give me a "health" status because it is a quick 15 second test.

I do know that these batteries, when new, delivered 190aH (combined) when discharged to a 50% level. (12.2V if I remember the spec correctly)
__________________
-Rich-

"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." - Red Green
dznf0g is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2012, 03:04 PM   #25
Rivet Master
 
1981 31' Excella II
New Market , Alabama
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 5,648
I expect that if your batteries put out a good CCA number that they would be in pretty good shape. I expect that a battery that has a low CCA would not put out its rated AH's. I also expect that a deep cycle battery would not have the same CCA as a car battery. I would think that if you test a new deep cycle battery and a new car battery you would have at least a qualitative comparison.

If car battery puts out 1000CCA and a similar sized deep cycle puts out 500 CCA. Then you know if your fully charged deep cycle only puts out 200CCA that it is probably on the way out and will run down long before it reaches the rated AH.

Perry
__________________

__________________
perryg114 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:38 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.