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Old 06-05-2017, 08:14 PM   #1
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hooking up generator to AS TT

Hi
First, forgive my ignorance as I am new to rving.
What is the procedure for hooking up a generator to a
2017 AS International 30 ??
Does it get plugged into the 50 amp receptacle where shore power
gets plugged in ???
Harry
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Old 06-05-2017, 08:25 PM   #2
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the AS owners manual on page 6-5 states "The remote generator hookup is not available with 50 Amp service "
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Old 06-05-2017, 08:26 PM   #3
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Yes. Depending on your generator you might need an adapter to plug the other end of your shore power cord to you generator.
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Old 06-05-2017, 08:44 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Milo1952 View Post
the AS owners manual on page 6-5 states "The remote generator hookup is not available with 50 Amp service "
That is referring to a second plug on the front of the trailer that a generator can be plugged into. 50 amp trailers don't have that plug. The manual is not saying you can't hook up a generator...just that you don't have an additional 'remote generator hookup" i.e. plug on the front of the trailer. It is kind of confusing.

In your case, your input is via the shore power cord, using appropriate adapter for the plug on the generator end of the cord. You will find an adapter like this one handy. It allows you to plug your 50 amp cord into 30 amp shore power if that is all that's available, or into a generator using the 15 amp fitting, if your generator only has standard 15 amp plug-in. Some do have a 30 amp plug in.

https://www.etrailer.com/RV-Wiring/C...1l4hoC34fw_wcB

Please note also that depending on your generator size (1,000 watt, 2,000 watt, 3,000 watt etc) you are limited on what accessories you can use, i.e. microwave, Air conditioning (at least 3000 watts required to run one unit), etc.
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Old 06-05-2017, 08:57 PM   #5
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Hi

To be very clear: The "normal" shore power hookup is 50A at 240V. You would need a 12KW generator to fully power the AS and operate everything as if it was on shore power.

You can indeed get away with a lot less and very careful power management. At 2KW and below, you need to watch things like the battery charger.

Bob
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Old 06-05-2017, 08:59 PM   #6
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The 30 amp socket on the Honda Companion does not match a standard 30 amp RV plug. It requires a three pole twist lock plug. See the thread below. Pat

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f37/...-163172-2.html
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Old 06-06-2017, 11:17 AM   #7
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Hey there Uncle Bob

are you 100% sure it's 50A at 240V and not 50 A at 110/120V ???
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Old 06-06-2017, 11:20 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Milo1952 View Post
Hey there Uncle Bob

are you 100% sure it's 50A at 240V and not 50 A at 110/120V ???
It is 50 amp @120/240 volts.
There should be two legs, each 120v. It should be 240v across the hot leads, but sometimes it will be 120/120, both on one leg.
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Old 06-06-2017, 12:10 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Milo1952 View Post
the AS owners manual on page 6-5 states "The remote generator hookup is not available with 50 Amp service "
True. The 30 amp (one AC) comes with a wonderful plug on the front, along with a automatic transfer switch. The 50 amp service does not have this. I guess the transfer switch for 50 amps was too expensive for Thor to install.
So, you have a couple choices, all involving the normal AC power inlet.
1. Drag out your 50 amp power cord and connect it using a "dog bone" adaptor to the generator. My generator has a connector called a NEMA L5-30. It's a three prong twist lock that supposedly resists falling out due to generator vibration.
2. Buy a 30 amp cable that has a 50 amp female on one end and a 30 amp RV plug on the other end. Much lighter, and you won't have 50 amp anyway. I got mine from Amazon, it's 25', made in Switzerland, and seems to be well made. You'll still need an adaptor to go from the 30 amp RV plug to the three prong generator plug. (Some newer generators come with the 30 amp RV plug...Champion, for one)
Quote:
Voltec Industries 16-00588 30-Ampere to 50-Ampere RV Locking 10/3 STW Cord, 25-Feet
You can also use this if you're in a campground with only 30 amp service.

In either case, you'll only be able to run one air conditioner.

The 50 amp inlet has two 50 amp circuits, while the 30 amp only has one 30 amp. So in any adaptor, the two "hot" lugs of the 50 amp plug are simply wired together. You'll be limited to the output of the generator, but you'll have power on all the devices and plugs.
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Old 06-06-2017, 05:15 PM   #10
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Airstream Service will install a front 50 amp plug and transfer switch for about $2,000. However, I think it is a worth while modification, especially if you carry your genny in the truck bed and run it off of your propane tanks. Thats almost as good as a built in genny in your Airstream. My system propane plugs into a quick disconnect with a shut off on the tongue opposite the pigtail. The LPG cover is notched for both. If you shield the genny exhaust from the tailgate you can run it with the tailgate up. With the window(s) cracked if you have a camper shell.
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Old 06-06-2017, 05:45 PM   #11
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It is 50 amp @120/240 volts.
There should be two legs, each 120v. It should be 240v across the hot leads, but sometimes it will be 120/120, both on one leg.
Hi

If you have 120 / 120 on both (the lines are in phase/ zero volts between the hot leads) that's a *really* big problem. In that case the return for both legs is in phase. If you get 50A into each of them, you will have 100A back through the neutral. There is no breaker or fuse in the neutral (doing that is a no-no). It will happily try to put the 100A down there with no alarms or anything else.

The problem is that the neutral wire and contact on the connector are only rated for 50A. Putting 100A through them is running at 2X their rating. Needless to say this can lead to all sorts of odd issues (fire being one of them ..).

The way it *should* work is that you feed two voltages down the hot leads. Both of them measure 120 V to ground. That's the way any 240V circuit in the US looks. The trick is that they are 180 degrees out of phase from each other. That is what gives you 240V looking between the two hot leads. Again, this is exactly how the 240V in your home is set up.

If it is set up correctly and you pull 50A on each side of the circuit, there is no current in the neutral. The two currents are 180 out of phase and they add to zero. If you have a non-ideal power factor on one leg or imbalance between the two sides, you will see current on the neutral. If you have 100% imbalance (full current on one side, no current on the other) you get 50A down the neutral. That's legit, the wire and contact on the connector are rated for 50A.

Still not convinced? Grab a cheap multimeter and do some measurements. Follow good safety practices when you do. Take a look at the wire in the cable, they all are the same size aren't they? Look at the physical contacts on the connector, they all are the same size aren't they? Yup, indeed it's not that hard to verify. Other than the 180 degree stuff it's mostly common sense numbers.

So why don't we talk about a 240V feed to an AS? The answer is pretty simple. There are no loads that run from hot to hot (using 240V). Everything is set up to run from hot to neutral (using 120 at the load). You *can* feed a limited amount of current (50A) into the trailer using a 120V generator. Yes it would be a bit odd, but you could do it. You would only be able to run half the loads. With any modern generator I'm aware of, plugging into a 25A 240V circuit would be a much better idea.

There are other brands (think big MH's) that do have 240V loads. They will be really unhappy when they plug into an improperly wired shore power outlet. Next time you are at the campground look around. How many AS's are parked? How many 90' long, 8 slide out, "big rig" motor homes? (ok, that's a little bit exaggerated). The reason you don't see a lot of fires is that these guys spot the problem. "The AC doesn't work". They complain and it gets wired correctly.

Yes, it's all a bit crazy.

Bob
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Old 06-06-2017, 07:20 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by uncle_bob View Post
The way it *should* work is that you feed two voltages down the hot leads. Both of them measure 120 V to ground. That's the way any 240V circuit in the US looks. The trick is that they are 180 degrees out of phase from each other. That is what gives you 240V looking between the two hot leads. Again, this is exactly how the 240V in your home is set up.
For the sake of THIS discussion, we're taking the output of a generator (120v. 30 amp, or less) and getting it into a 50 amp plug so the trailer appears to have power on all the outlets. The way it's done is to connect both hot leads of the 50 amp plug together. There's no issue with two 50 amp legs flowing to a single neutral, because we only have a single 30 amp at the source.

For a long time I wondered how a power pedestal could be wired as if it had 240v, and yet be used in an RV. The answer was so simple I overlooked it. INSIDE the trailer, the power is divided into two 120 v. circuits.
Likewise, dogbones are wired so as to provide 30 amps into both hot spades of a 50 amp plug. They're not out of phase because we only have one 30 amp. source.

Speaking of big motorhomes, Rock and Roll tour busses have 5 air conditioners. They never plug into normal shore power, but rather run on generator all the time.
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Old 06-07-2017, 08:09 AM   #13
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Hi

Your house brings in 240V from the pole. Unless you have a very unusual house, that's what you get. The 240 hits your main box and fans out. Some things get both sides of the feed and see 240V. The wall plugs get one side of the feed and then see 120V. The 50A on the RV is no different. The issue is the previous comment that 50A shore power might not be wired as 240V. *IF* that is the case, you do have a very big problem.

Bob
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Old 07-14-2018, 08:09 PM   #14
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My generator has a 120/240 twist lock receptacle, in addition to the 120 plug. Can this be adapted to the 30 amp plug to get full power to the trailer
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