Gas or Propane Generator

[dznf0g]

Watt you guys talking about?

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by Mollysdad

I'd be concerned about mounting 200 pounds above hitch due to metal fatigue. There's gotta be a bunch of vibration leading to cracking.

If you don't mind a mechanical engineer's opinion, I'd be more concerned about the increased tongue weight if you used that generator bracket on an Airstream. A trailer frame is a tough piece of metal, and vibration from a dinky little generator like that isn't likely to cause problems with metal fatigue. Unless you had bad welds in the first place, in which case vibration from the generator would lead you to find the bad welds while the trailer is safely parked…

[PKI]

If you tow with a truck, your choice (big LPG tank permanently mounted in bed). If you tow with an SUV, go LPG - no place to store gasoline (exceptions of course).

If you use battery power all the time, look very close at solar and bigger battery capacity.

If you have to have AC, look very close at your choice. Makes for a very sensitive decision. Big one vs small one with a soft start. Gas vs LPG. Quiet vs just a little bit louder. Expensive vs economy priced. Heavy vs light. Solar very expensive but possibly doable. Figure out what works for you.

If you seldom use battery power, but occasionally need a charge, get a generator and leave it at home when you don't need it.

Ain't it cool to have choices. Pat

[Mollysdad]

Originally Posted by Protagonist

If you don't mind a mechanical engineer's opinion, I'd be more concerned about the increased tongue weight if you used that generator bracket on an Airstream. A trailer frame is a tough piece of metal, and vibration from a dinky little generator like that isn't likely to cause problems with metal fatigue. Unless you had bad welds in the first place, in which case vibration from the generator would lead you to find the bad welds while the trailer is safely parked…

No. I worried about metal fatigue in the rack suspending 200+ pounds above the tanks.
I guess I didn't make myself clear.

I thought about added tongue weight, but that's somewhat offset by carrying the generator in the truck bed. The total weight is less by the weight of the bracket.

... vibration from a dinky little generator like that isn't likely to cause problems with metal fatigue.

A Honda eu3000is is dinky? Meet the folks who don't like it because they can't muscle it into the truck. 150 pounds with gas.

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by Mollysdad

A Honda eu3000is is dinky? Meet the folks who don't like it because they can't muscle it into the truck. 150 pounds with gas.

Compared to the big commercial generators I dealt with when I worked for a living, anything you can move without a crane is dinky. Size is relative.

[gypsydad]

I ordered a new Dual Fuel Champion 3400 from Amazon and it arrived last week. Finally unpacked and fired her up using a portable 5# propane bottle with the included regulator and hose for the 5 hour break in period. It started right up with the electric start and ran continuously with no issues. It was easy to move around using the folding handle and wheels. I ended up lifting it into the back of my Yamaha side by side UTV; says 95lbs weight, and I did not have any problem lifting it, which was a concern about moving it around initially. The handles and wheels make it easy to maneuver and lift. I used the UTV to carry the generator and propane bottle during break in period so I could take it over to my AS across the property. All electric in the AS worked as advertised, of course only one AC at a time. (Mateo of Micro Air advised me I would not need an Easy Start with this generator, and he was correct.) Independently, both AC's fired right away and the Champion did not bog down at all. Specs say 3060 starting watts and 2790 running watts on LPG. No more carrying gas in the bed of the truck. I will use the LP connection on front of the AS primarily. Easy to carry the extra 5# propane bottle when/if needed. At $1,053 delivered by Amazon, this is a great deal! So far, very happy!

[AirMiles]

Question: How did you connect your Champion Dual Fuel Generator to your Airstream?

I've read that some people just make a hose to plug it in without the large fuel controller and adjust the fuel mix with the 1/4 turn shut off valve. But I feel you need to keep the fuel controller to adjust the fuel mix. It took me two attempts to make it work.

My first attempt was to just make a 10' extension hose with a male LP tank connection on one end and a female LP tank connection on the other. I just connected this extension hose between the AS propane tank and the hose that came with the generator with the fuel controller with the 2" high-to-low pressure regulator. This setup did not work. There was too much restriction through the double tank connectors, so occasionally the generator would fuel starve after a short run (60 seconds). This hose is not pictured since it didn't work.

My second attempt (see picture) was to connect directly to the AS quick disconnect. I removed the small 2" high-to-low propane regulator from the larger fuel controller. I obtained the fittings to connect the rubber hose directly to where the 2" regulator was removed. On the other end of the hose, I added the fittings to terminate the hose with a male compression fitting. Then I made two different options to connect to the male compression fitting.

Option 1) I added a female-to-female compression fitting, another male compression fitting and then the male quick disconnect fitting needed to connect to the AS quick disconnect port. With this option I run the generator from the AS quick disconnect port.

Option 2) I bought an standard LP gas grill replacement hose with a female compression fitting on one end and an LP tank regulator connection on the other. I can remove the female-to-female compression fitting from Option 1 and connect to this standard LP gas grill hose (the short one in the picture). With this option I run the generator from a standard propane bottle.

My second attempt has been working perfectly and is pictured here: http://www.airforums.com/forums/f42/...ml#post1996143

[thiel]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

So..... the watts are less on Propane.

Only if the reduced power output of the,(lpg) 'engine' powering the alternator is enough to overload.....our 2000i dual fuel conversion has been good up to 1500w on both lpg and petrol.

Just wanted to chime in because power reduction figures are often misquoted:

-- On natural gas, there's approximately 15% power loss

-- On PROPANE there is only 1-2% loss in power. So ALMOST ZERO loss.


(I see people confusing this all the time.)

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by AirMiles

Question: How did you connect your Champion Dual Fuel Generator to your Airstream?

I've read that some people just make a hose to plug it in without the large fuel controller and adjust the fuel mix with the 1/4 turn shut off valve. But I feel you need to keep the fuel controller to adjust the fuel mix. It took me two attempts to make it work.

My first attempt was to just make a 10' extension hose with a male LP tank connection on one end and a female LP tank connection on the other. I just connected this extension hose between the AS propane tank and the hose that came with the generator with the fuel controller with the 2" high-to-low pressure regulator. This setup did not work. There was too much restriction through the double tank connectors, so occasionally the generator would fuel starve after a short run (60 seconds). This hose is not pictured since it didn't work.

My second attempt (see picture) was to connect directly to the AS quick disconnect. I removed the small 2" high-to-low propane regulator from the larger fuel controller. I obtained the fittings to connect the rubber hose directly to where the 2" regulator was removed. On the other end of the hose, I added the fittings to terminate the hose with a male compression fitting. Then I made two different options to connect to the male compression fitting.

Option 1) I added a female-to-female compression fitting, another male compression fitting and then the male quick disconnect fitting needed to connect to the AS quick disconnect port. With this option I run the generator from the AS quick disconnect port.

Option 2) I bought an standard LP gas grill replacement hose with a female compression fitting on one end and an LP tank regulator connection on the other. I can remove the female-to-female compression fitting from Option 1 and connect to this standard LP gas grill hose (the short one in the picture). With this option I run the generator from a standard propane bottle.

My second attempt has been working perfectly and is pictured here: http://www.airforums.com/forums/f42/...ml#post1996143

Thanks for the post and update, Airmiles! As for the QD on my AS in front, I thought I would run to town yesterday and just purchase a propane hose with male QD's on both ends, but our little Lincoln HW store does not stock. Now I am heading to Helena later today to Lows or HomeDepot and try to find one. I thought I would just plug mail QD into trailer and into Dual Fuel and go...are you saying you think I need to use an LP regulator inline with this configuration also? I thought the one on the AS line was all I would need? I will be camping at 6k altitude typically up here in Glacier area next week....

[Rocinante]

Still loving our propane-fired Honda EU 2000i Companion.

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by Rocinante

Still loving our propane-fired Honda EU 2000i Companion.

Who did you purchase it from? How much, and also will it run a 13,500 AC without the Micro Air Easy Start? I thought I read somewhere here that folks were running a single AC 13,500 without the Easy Start?

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

Thanks for the post and update, Airmiles! As for the QD on my AS in front, I thought I would run to town yesterday and just purchase a propane hose with male QD's on both ends, but our little Lincoln HW store does not stock. Now I am heading to Helena later today to Lows or HomeDepot and try to find one. I thought I would just plug mail QD into trailer and into Dual Fuel and go...are you saying you think I need to use an LP regulator inline with this configuration also? I thought the one on the AS line was all I would need? I will be camping at 6k altitude typically up here in Glacier area next week....

No luck with trying to jury-rig with hoses and connections I have with me connecting directly to the AS QD. I can not find female connections here in Banff area, so may have to wait till I get back to US next week. I thought someone mentioned you could get the right hose, connectors, regulator also on line somewhere? If so, can someone please post again. Portable 7# bottle is working with supplied regulator and short hose...

[Rocinante]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

Who did you purchase it from? How much, and also will it run a 13,500 AC without the Micro Air Easy Start? I thought I read somewhere here that folks were running a single AC 13,500 without the Easy Start?

GenConnex is where we bought it. Runs our AC fine, even in Eco mode, with EasyStart installed.

[RandyNH]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

No luck with trying to jury-rig with hoses and connections I have with me connecting directly to the AS QD. I can not find female connections here in Banff area, so may have to wait till I get back to US next week. I thought someone mentioned you could get the right hose, connectors, regulator also on line somewhere? If so, can someone please post again. Portable 7# bottle is working with supplied regulator and short hose...

GenConnex is the place to go

http://www.genconnexdirect.net/propane-fittings.htm

[dasams]

Originally Posted by Rocinante

GenConnex is where we bought it. Runs our AC fine, even in Eco mode, with EasyStart installed.

Same set-up and it ran our 15,000 BTU AC when at sea level. But it did not work in Central Oregon for the eclipse. Elevation was 3,600 ft and pressure was 0.88 atm. Hence perhaps 12% power loss. YMMV, Dave

[Rocinante]

To be fair, we have not experimented with this setup at higher elevations.

[RandyNH]

Originally Posted by dasams

Same set-up and it ran our 15,000 BTU AC when at sea level. But it did not work in Central Oregon for the eclipse. Elevation was 3,600 ft and pressure was 0.88 atm. Hence perhaps 12% power loss. YMMV, Dave

GenConnex has high altitude orifices, up to 10,000ft for their setups, were you utilizing one of these?

[dasams]

Originally Posted by RandyNH

GenConnex has high altitude orifices, up to 10,000ft for their setups, were you utilizing one of these?

AFAIK, I have the standard orifice and I was not aware that different sizes are available. Can they be easily changed in the field? If so, that would be great.

[ROBERT CROSS]

Have the conversions changed?
No mixture block?

I converted our Honda in 2007 with a US Carb dual fuel. It has a mixture adjustment, re-adjusts nicely for altitude.

Bob

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by thiel

Just wanted to chime in because power reduction figures are often misquoted:

-- On natural gas, there's approximately 15% power loss

-- On PROPANE there is only 1-2% loss in power. So ALMOST ZERO loss.


(I see people confusing this all the time.)

I'm still confusing it....

Power reductions of the engine, not the alternator...correct.

Seems to this OF, that as long as the generator is not near max load the alternator doesn't care what the engine is powered with.

Our 2000i spins fine powering the 1500w microwave...on lpg or petrol, exactly the same rpm' needed in either case.

The engine is a bit less efficient on lpg but it's never been maxed out trying.

Bob