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Old 05-22-2006, 04:41 PM   #15
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My only experience is with two newer Airstream trailers each causing the ground fault in my garage outlet to trip. There was a common cause and it was the TV set. Apparently when the TV was hooked up to the antenna and the TV was plugged into the electrical outlet the breaker would pop. This happend when the TV was brand new. I took it back got another of the same brand and style and it did the same thing.

I used that TV everywhere and it never caused a problem until the trailer was home. Fast forward 3 years, new 2004 Classic. Forgot all about the problem with the old trailer, plugged in the new TV, attached the antenna wire coax, bam it pops the garage breaker again.

Somebody once told me it was a faulty design of the chasis of the TV set.

Jack
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Old 05-22-2006, 05:05 PM   #16
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hi jack

yep applicances can be a problem.

i turned off the 12v main and all of the 120 v breakers, including the main...still happened.

so this has got to be part of the wiring scheme right from the plug.....since the gfci trips with everything turned off.

cheers
2air'
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Old 05-22-2006, 08:17 PM   #17
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gfr/gfci

what is a gfr? never heard of them!
a gfci is an electronic device that monitors the current between the hot leg 120/220v leg and the neutral. by design if the differnce is more than 5mA it will open. you basicaly need the same going to a load (hot) and the same returning (neutral) to complete the circuit, more than 5mA and it will open. at the electrical service panel the neutral and ground are bonded, i.e. the same potential 0 OHMS. it sounds to me that there is a bonding problem between the ground and neutral were there is a potential/resistance more than zero ohms from the hot leg to the ground and the hot leg to the neutral (the neutral and grounding connection). i would gamble to say if you disconnected the neutral and hooked up the ground only on the power cord it would work much the same as when the ground was disconnected. I DO NOT RECOMMEND THIS.

the ground is there for safety so if the neutral was lost (opened) the hot has a return path so when YOU touch the device you arent the return path because you have more resistance than the copper ground.5mA isn't alot of current 5/1000's of an ampere.

if the circuit is on a gfci breaker it simply could have been wired up wrong or a bonding issue as well. damp locations are always a problem as well as these are electronic devices that can be tempermental. i have heard of 3 or for bad gfci's installed in a row before a good one. not likely but it happens.


hope this helps

crowbar
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Old 05-27-2006, 04:06 PM   #18
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My suggestion would be to take plug apart and use electrical grease on connection then check the poles polarity make sure the plug is all lined up with your pole. USE A VOLTMETER and test poles slots best way to do this is test all with a known ground. Eliminate the positive lines and test where the nuetral(ground) line is on yours and the pole then match up your plug with the poles save your self a electricians call and easy to do .
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Old 05-30-2006, 09:39 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman
update on this issue......

hi john hd and others

i'm having some dealer service done in 2 weeks and called them about this issue....

it has happened at 2 more of my regular campgrounds this year, where they have recently upgraded the outlets with gfi plugs.....

as soon as i touch the plug with my 30 amp cord, a 15 amp cord or any 3 prong plug the gri/gfcr trips....

this happens even with ALL my breakers turned off AND the 12v main turned off.....

i've checked the park plugs and they are grounded properly and carrying proper voltage...also no one else camping nearby has issues....

the only way i can use power now in these locations is with an ungrounded adapter (ground plug removed) which i've done from the 15-20amp plugs but not the 30amp plug....

my dealer/service tech called j.c. and was told that basically the gfci on the newer trailers is triggering the ground/fault trip....and that THIS WILL HAPPEN in just about every newer campground that uses gfi/gfr outlets......

in other words this is NORMAL function for new airstreams and i will need to camp somewhere else!!!!

can this be correct info?
is this really true?

i wondered if the trailer wiring design wasn't tripping the faults....now i'm told IT IS and that's normal?

any electrical wizards wanna offer input? what can i do? with the a/c season about to start i'd like use 30 amp power....

anyone else having this problem with newer airstreams?



cheers
2air'
Question do you have problems at other camp sites?

If so did you check your plug make sure it is wired correct?

Will the poles GFI trip if the circuit breakers are shut off in the trailer?

If so unplug everything 120 volt in trailer including refrigulator make sure Air condition is shut off.

Then try process of elimination...
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Old 05-30-2006, 10:41 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrcrowley
If so did you check your plug make sure it is wired correct?
Will the poles GFI trip if the circuit breakers are shut off in the trailer?
If so unplug everything 120 volt in trailer including refrigulator make sure Air condition is shut off.
Then try process of elimination...
thanks for the suggestions.....

this issue only happened at 2 campsites all of last year but many more this year....5-6 so far...
so i'm thinking a ground connection in the breaker box or near the shore plug is loose....
i'm having the service department check it friday....i'm hopeful, but fully expect they won't be able to reproduce the problem....

at campsites where there have been gfci problems.....yes it happens even with ALL circuit breakers flipped off in the trailer and the 12 volt system disconnected. i haven't unplugged the fridge or microwave, but once the circuit breakers are turned off these items are out of the loop anyway....

i'll report back next week with an update.

cheers
2air'
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Old 05-30-2006, 11:30 PM   #21
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I have an 10 yr old GFR that powers an outdoor receptacle. This weekend it pooped out while Scooter was using the smoker to cook pork butts. The smoker is 1.5 Kw.

The weird thing is that it now puts out between 20 and 28 Vac. Neither the breaker or the GFR tripped.

Has anyone had this happen, or know why?
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Old 06-06-2006, 05:27 AM   #22
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From my past experience I recommend you make sure you disconnect all electronic gadgets from the wall recepticles when troubleshooting GFI tripping, because I have seen many of them that have an AC capacitor on the line input to chassis which unbalance the current in the return and will trip the GFI, depending upon which time of the AC cycle you turn the power on.
Also last year I fixed a MH where the 2 white wires where interchanged on the GFI. That don't matter in a regular recepticle but sure will be intermittent with a GFI. That MH owner spent many bucks and trips to repair centers for over a year trying to find that problem.
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Old 06-06-2006, 09:10 PM   #23
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My .02 worth

I encountered two electrial problems with our 04 Safari.
1) lost power at the bath electrial plug when the GFI would trip. If I remember correctly also lost power at the outlet by the range. This would sometimes happen even without using the outlet. Removed the GFI bath wall plug and found a loose wire on the plug.

2) lost power to the trailer---took the twist end of the power plug (where it connects to the trailer) apart and again found a wire had come loose from the plug.

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Old 06-07-2006, 09:52 AM   #24
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Rivet gfci

[quote=2airishuman]thanks for the suggestions.....

this issue only happened at 2 campsites all of last year but many more this year....5-6 so far...
so i'm thinking a ground connection in the breaker box or near the shore plug is loose....
i'm having the service department check it friday....i'm hopeful, but fully expect they won't be able to reproduce the problem....

at campsites where there have been gfci problems.....yes it happens even with ALL circuit breakers flipped off in the trailer and the 12 volt system disconnected. i haven't unplugged the fridge or microwave, but once the circuit breakers are turned off these items are out of the loop anyway....



i don't think its your campers wiring. w/ your breakers off you are out of the equation like you said. it is on thier side. the fix is to remove your ground like you did. the gfci monitors the neutral and hot leg. greater than a 5ma current and it opens. removing the ground will not affect the performance of the gfci. just like in a old house when you replace the 2prong plugs w/ 3prong all appliances and lights operate the same. you just don't have a ground or the second(safety) path to ground. dont forget that the neutral AND ground are the same (supposed to) at the main panel (shore). if you have a difference (resistance i.e. current/voltage) between the ground and neutral you have a fault conditiion, so it can't start to monitor the hot and neutral w/ no good reference (continuity/zero volts/zero ohms/) between the ground and neutral. it is a bonding issue at the service.

hope this helps

crowbar
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Old 06-15-2006, 12:41 AM   #25
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thanks to those who are trying to help me solve this gfci issue......

i've also read this recent thread....
http://www.airforums.com/forum...highlight=gfci

and hope some of you will chime in...



to recap ny situation:

-many campgrounds now have gfci outlets AT the campsites....
-when i plug into MOST of these outlets.......the outlet trips....
-when this happens i unplug everything in the trailer (except the fridge/microwave) AND flip ALL the breakers OFF....

-still the gfci trips....on the campground outlet....
-changing sites doesn't help.....
-NO ONE else in the park has an issue....
-this only happened twice last season, but already more than 8 times this year....

my work around has been to use a 2 prong adapter (no ground) into the 15/20 amp shore plug.....to provide juice into the trailer....

recently i called airstream about this.....
and my dealer service center called airstream about this.....
also a licensed electrician stopped by the dealership while i was in for service......

the a/s factory person AND the electrician said....

"when a trailer built with gfci outlets is plugged into a shore outlet that also has a gcfi....the 2 will trigger a fault and trip the gcfi plug".....

i understand the statement and knowing zip about electricity, it still makes sense.....

but here is what does not make ANY sense....
how or why would airstream build trailers that will CONFLICT with the modern park outlets?

the factory answer to me was......
"you need to go to parks that don't have gfci outlets".....

read that again folks......the factory recommends going to parks with the older outlets, so as not to trip the gcfi used at newer or upgraded parks????

not only is this a dumb suggestion....i've been camped sided by side with other new airstreams that don't trip the gfci at their sites while mine does!!

so in reality i suspect there is a loose wire somewhere and the factory simply doesn't want to take the hours it might to find this and fix it.....

any thoughts?
cheers
2air'
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Old 06-15-2006, 12:48 AM   #26
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more on this issue.......

ok, so the dealer service center has been advised by the factory that the gfci tripping is NORMAL when a gfci trailer is plugged into a gfci equiped outlet.....so my dealer service guys can't/arent' gonna fix this...since it is supposed to be that way......

they do however agree with me that it is ridiculous to suggest going only to older campgrounds that do not have gfci outlets......

so
they build me a solution....
a work around......
a 30 amp adapter WITHOUT a ground.....

we decide to christen it........

THE JACKSON CENTER DOG BONE

in honor of the mother ship.....

here is a picture of the dog bone without a ground.....

"the jackson center dog bone"
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all of the true things that i am about to tell you are shameless lies. l.b.j.

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Old 06-15-2006, 12:56 AM   #27
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so now i carry

a 50amp to 30 amp dog bone.....
a 30 amp to 15 amp dog bone.....
a 15 amp to 30 amp dog bone......
a 30 amp marinco twist lock to standard 30 amp dog bone.....

and the 'jackson center dog bone'......

yes it is working,
and yes i've been advised it is safe,
and yes it is a DAMN'D silly solution!!

even my dog thinks this is a silly solution......
(note how he rolls his eyes in disgust in the first photo)


so i ask you fellow campers.......
and airstream factory gods.........

is this ANY way to treat a dog?

cheers
2air'
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Old 06-15-2006, 02:48 AM   #28
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My input for what it's worth.
Since you trip the GFCI with all breakers off the problem is in the breaker box itself or in the main line between the breaker box and the plug on the end.
IMHO I don't think using a non grounded plug should be the answer.

Garry
on edit
guess you already know the above
So look for a screw that holds the breaker box that could be too long and touching something on the back side, pull all the breakers and look at the connections and tighten all including the main, make sure "all" the wires on the buss bar are tight, then run a new temporary line into your box just for testing.
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