Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 07-17-2017, 05:35 PM   #1
2 Rivet Member
 
1958 22' Flying Cloud
portola valley , California
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 79
Follow up on Easy startElectrical/power/generator/lithium ion battery update

We unplugged from shore power Saturday evening. Sunday morning at 11:30 am batteries were down to 21% but showing 13.2 volts.
We fired up generator Honda EU2000i and batteries started charging as follows: Float charge 60 AMPS occasionally down to 10 AMPS then a minute or two later back up to 60AMPS. Multimeter showed approx 1.3 AMPS from generator on power cord.

Turned generator off then switched to shore power (just as an experiment) and still read Float Charge 50+ AMPS so no difference then between using generator or shore power.

Turned generator back on read 13.26-7 V 70 AMPS+ and the Float charge was at 35 AMPS indicated on Magnum panel.
12:30 pm batteries were up to 32% charged. It took 45 minutes to charge from 21%-32%

Went into set up mode and changed charge rate from 40% to 60% at that time Reading was 13.3 V charging 35 AMPS. (We had originally reduced the charge rate from 100% to 40% because previously in trying to recharge the batteries using the generator (but not shore power) after about 10 minutes something caused the generator to "trip" and go into default mode, which we believe may be because our Magnum 3112 (?) can draw enough current to overwhelm the generator)

at 1:30 pm charging at 25 AMPS batteries at 40% 13.3 V

3pm 49% charged batteries, panel read 13.27 V, Float charging only 3.9 AMPS then 1.4 AMPS charging on generator so we then went back to shore power which read 13.2 V discharging 2.0 AMPS on Starlight , Magnum showing FLOAT charge 0 AMPS, so now apparently no charging at all going on

3:20 pm reconnected generator and it read Float Charge 1.0 AMPS

5:50 PM still on generator read .6 AMPS on power cord, 49% charged batteries panel showed Float Charge 0 AMPS
unplugged generator and reconnected to shore power for the night

Monday July 17

Still on shore power
8:45 am read 13.52 V Discharging .5-.8 AMPS Batteries 86% charged Float Charge 1.3 AMPS, fan ran all night and so did refrigerator which is still cold.

9:50 am read 87% batteries charged 13.84 V charging 2.8 AMPS Float charge 0 AMPS solar boost panel reads 14.1 V and 6.0 AMPS

3:20 pm Solar Boost monitor reads 13.5 V 1.0 AMPS
Starlight Solar monitor reads 13.4 V battery charged to 85% and discharging 1.9 AMPS Float charge 13.4 V and 0 AMPS

We cannot figure out why we cannot get the batteries to charge back up fully and why charging is taking so long now.

Questions

Should the batteries drain so fast one night from just a 12 v fan and the refrigerator running?
It is a electric refrigerator not run on propane. Nothing else was running. It had been a very hot day here in high 90ís Saturday and Sunday but cooled down at night.

Is there a way to test to see if the batteries to see if anything is wrong with them ? The generator seems to run things correctly so no issue there, but it is odd that when we switched from generator to shore power in the afternoon the system seemed to stop charging as shown by Float charging-0 amps on the Magnum display, but then while on shore power overnight the batteries did charge from 49-86%

The inverter is starting off in Float charging mode even when the batteries are down to 21% Could that be why charging is taking so long? We saw in the Magnum manual that bulk charging only happens when the battery voltage is below 12.9 so we assume that is why it is not going into bulk charging mode. Can/should that voltage be adjusted to get into bulk mode sooner? Could there be something wrong with the inverter or how it is wired?

Is it possible that the monitor showing battery % charged is incorrect?

Any there suggestions to get this system working.

My husband, Mike, and I have spent hours and hours trying to figure out and eliminate issues to get to the bottom and we are frustrated because it still is not working properly and after more than one year of trying to get it going we are still stuck in our driveway!
Many thanks for any help or suggestions.
__________________

Driftin Di is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2017, 06:04 PM   #2
Rivet Master
 
gypsydad's Avatar

 
2017 28' Flying Cloud
2014 25' FB Flying Cloud
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Austin (winter) Lincoln MT (summer) , Texas & Montana
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,945
Battery?

I would say you have bad battery cells, but I am not sure which battery you have...you mention lithium in the beginning of your thread? Many of us have had bad battery issues with wet cell batteries.
__________________

__________________
Empty Nesters; Gypsies on the road!
2017 28' Twin Flying Cloud
2017 F250 King Ranch, 4X4, Blue-Ox WDH
Summer in Lincoln, MT- Winter in Austin, TX
gypsydad is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2017, 10:06 PM   #3
3 Rivet Member
 
2015 28' Flying Cloud
Newtown , Pennsylvania
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 221
Your battery can't be down to 21% and be at 13.2 volts. You need to properly set the parameters on the Magnum.

Bruce
__________________
50 amp, Awning package
2015 Ram 2500 6.7 TD, Blue Ox 1000 lb.
4 Lifeline AGM, Trimetric 2020
PD9160 converter, Prosine 1800 inverter
2x eu2000i Propane
AstroBruce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2017, 10:27 AM   #4
3 Rivet Member
 
2018 33' Classic
Newport , Pennsylvania
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 236
Ask Outside Interests

July 18, 2017 Outside Interests
Reader Cheryl V. has an interesting question:
“Have you heard of a device that helps start your AC slowly so that a 13500 [BTU] can run on a Honda 2000 generator?” she asks. “I forgot to ask about it at Alumapalooza.”
Now that summer is in full swing, temperatures are high both inside and outside our Airstreams and AC maintenance and operational practices are top of mind. Experts at Outside Interests have pondered Cheryl’s question, and think she’s asking about a “soft start” capacitor, like the Dometic SmartStart II.
It doesn’t actually “start the AC slowly”, but acts like a boost battery to take some of the initial load off the power source (usually a generator) when the air conditioner compressor starts up.
The short answer to the question? It’s not a good idea to try to run your air conditioner on a single Honda 2000 generator, even with this device.
Your RV air conditioner pulls a great deal of power when it ramps up upon starting, and can easily overload the typical 2000 watt RV generator—resulting in the generator shutting down or possible damage to the air conditioner.
A start capacitor stores power to help with this initial load, but it’s not able to make miracles happen. Even with a start capacitor, a 2000-watt generator is not a good match for the typical Dometic air conditioner installed on an Airstream. Dometic recommends at least a 3500-watt generator. Many Airstreamers have success with 3000-watt generators, or two 2000-watt generator running in parallel.
You might have read online that some folks allow their ACs to run from a 2000-watt generator, but please be careful. This goes into the same category as running the air conditioner on a 15-amp plug. It will work…until it doesn’t. And a burned-out air conditioner is an expensive repair. Look carefully at all recommendations, guidlines and warnings printed in the documents supplied with any product of this kind.
Hope that helps, Cheryl. Keep cool! Check out this other Outside Interests article about air conditioning for more information.
Ask Outside Interests!

Got a tough question about Airstreaming and need a reliable answer? Drop a line to editor@randbevents.com and let us know what you’d like us to cover in future editions of Outside Interests. Your RV news for the Airstream community and photos are always welcome, too.

A/Cair conditionerDometicgenerHonda 2000start capacitor
EarlM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2017, 07:42 PM   #5
Adrock
 
Adam2026's Avatar
 
2017 27' Flying Cloud
Buffalo , New York
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 14
Misleading thread title

I am a little confused about why This thread starts off talking about a battery issue but then switches to an A/c running on a generator issue.

While I cannot speak about the initial battery issue that was being discussed I have some knowledge through a lot of reaserch about the a/c running on a Honda 2000 or a 20amp household plug. There is confusion in the posted article about Easy Start and Smart start(sure start). These are two different devices made by different companies. Although their names both contain the work "Start".

The Easy Start, which is referenced in the title of the post, is a proven device that can help with the large amp demand of an initial a/c start up and preventatively against low voltage and amperage from poor and inconsistent power sources at many camp sites. Additionally it will allow you to run an A/c on a Honda 2000.

The article speaks about issues with a different product which from my reaserch and my opinion does not give the same assurances as Easy Start. I feel that Easy Start is being lumped in with other products while it is actually very unique.
Adam2026 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2017, 07:18 AM   #6
3 Rivet Member
 
2017 25' International
Framingham , Massachusetts
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Driftin Di View Post

Questions

Should the batteries drain so fast one night from just a 12 v fan and the refrigerator running?
It is a electric refrigerator not run on propane. Nothing else was running. It had been a very hot day here in high 90’s Saturday and Sunday but cooled down at night.
Yes. Running an electric only 'frig all night on batteries only WILL drain them that fast! Same as trying to run an AC all night on batteries.
quietguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2017, 09:27 AM   #7
3 Rivet Member
 
2016 19' Flying Cloud
Portland , Oregon
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 146
Follow up on Easy startElectrical/power/generator/lithium ion battery update

Something's not right, a battery reading of 13.2v is not 21% charge. I suspect that wherever that reading is from it's not the actual batteries.

Also, you refer to an inverter when I think you mean converter. Inverter changes DC low voltage to AC 120 volts. Converter converts AC 120 volts to DC voltage. The Converter also charged the batteries when connected.

Unless you have calibrated (and reset) the parameters which are used to calculate the battery percentage of charge you should ignore them. Focus on the voltage readings. Disconnect the batteries, leave them for 1 hour and then measure them with a volt meter to get an exact reading from the batteries.

If you have solar, maybe that's what's generating your funny voltage reading. Hence why I suggest you disconnect the batteries to get a good test reading during debug.

Yes, a pure electric fridge is going to drain the batteries pretty fast. If your system has a shunt and can measure amp draw you should be able to measure the draw. If not, you might want to invest in a amp measure to get a rough idea of draw. Amazon has a 100 amp cheap one which only requires a sensor to be slipped onto one of the battery cables. Cheap but works.

Sorry I cannot be of more help without seeing detailed schematics and pictures of the system.

Good luck
Snowy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2017, 11:01 AM   #8
Rivet Master
 
gypsydad's Avatar

 
2017 28' Flying Cloud
2014 25' FB Flying Cloud
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Austin (winter) Lincoln MT (summer) , Texas & Montana
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,945
Quote:
Originally Posted by EarlM View Post
Ask Outside Interests

July 18, 2017 Outside Interests
Reader Cheryl V. has an interesting question:
“Have you heard of a device that helps start your AC slowly so that a 13500 [BTU] can run on a Honda 2000 generator?” she asks. “I forgot to ask about it at Alumapalooza.”
Now that summer is in full swing, temperatures are high both inside and outside our Airstreams and AC maintenance and operational practices are top of mind. Experts at Outside Interests have pondered Cheryl’s question, and think she’s asking about a “soft start” capacitor, like the Dometic SmartStart II.
It doesn’t actually “start the AC slowly”, but acts like a boost battery to take some of the initial load off the power source (usually a generator) when the air conditioner compressor starts up.
The short answer to the question? It’s not a good idea to try to run your air conditioner on a single Honda 2000 generator, even with this device.
Your RV air conditioner pulls a great deal of power when it ramps up upon starting, and can easily overload the typical 2000 watt RV generator—resulting in the generator shutting down or possible damage to the air conditioner.
A start capacitor stores power to help with this initial load, but it’s not able to make miracles happen. Even with a start capacitor, a 2000-watt generator is not a good match for the typical Dometic air conditioner installed on an Airstream. Dometic recommends at least a 3500-watt generator. Many Airstreamers have success with 3000-watt generators, or two 2000-watt generator running in parallel.
You might have read online that some folks allow their ACs to run from a 2000-watt generator, but please be careful. This goes into the same category as running the air conditioner on a 15-amp plug. It will work…until it doesn’t. And a burned-out air conditioner is an expensive repair. Look carefully at all recommendations, guidlines and warnings printed in the documents supplied with any product of this kind.
Hope that helps, Cheryl. Keep cool! Check out this other Outside Interests article about air conditioning for more information.
Ask Outside Interests!

Got a tough question about Airstreaming and need a reliable answer? Drop a line to editor@randbevents.com and let us know what you’d like us to cover in future editions of Outside Interests. Your RV news for the Airstream community and photos are always welcome, too.

A/Cair conditionerDometicgenerHonda 2000start capacitor
I am not sure how this went from the battery to the AC with a Honda 2000 generator, either. I agree, however, the EasyStart from Micro Air has many happy users with both the 13.5 AC and the 1500AC units, using a single Honda 2000 with a single AC unit, when Easy Start is installed. Don't be confused by this article above. It is NOT the Smart Start. that many ASers are using; it is the EasyStart. Contact Mateo at Micro Air for more questions and I believe they also offer a discount to ASers. Their are also several Youtube videos on this, including installation.
Now back to the original OP question; what battery are you using; lithium or wet cell from AS original equipment? I still suggest checking for bad cells at the Interstate dealer or AS dealer.
__________________

__________________
Empty Nesters; Gypsies on the road!
2017 28' Twin Flying Cloud
2017 F250 King Ranch, 4X4, Blue-Ox WDH
Summer in Lincoln, MT- Winter in Austin, TX
gypsydad is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Lithium Ion Batteries phil1ben Dollars & Cents 19 04-20-2019 04:48 PM
My Li-ion, 2kW, Battery Project sgschwend Batteries, Univolts, Converters & Inverters 72 04-20-2018 08:00 PM
Upgrading Converter/Charger To Accommodate Lithium Ion Batteries doutterson Electrical - Systems, Generators, Batteries & Solar 2 10-13-2016 10:01 PM
Lithium ion battery bearrand Batteries, Univolts, Converters & Inverters 9 04-04-2014 07:02 PM
Lithium ion battery sk8r29 Batteries, Univolts, Converters & Inverters 18 03-30-2011 02:33 AM


Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:10 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
×