|
|
01-15-2009, 08:32 PM
|
#1
|
1 Rivet Member
1975 31' Sovereign
Pensacola
, Florida
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 17
|
Electrical help..short or not
Just curious if anyone could give me some suggestions on this little problem we are having. We are restoring (amatuer level) a 1975 31ft rear bath. Recently I replaced the univolt with an Xantrax unit. I managed to save the old fuse panel thank goodness. I installed this about 3 months ago. Now for some reason the 1st fuse (20amp purple wire that goes to the rear bath lights, switch, and hallway overhead light) keeps melting. The wire itself gets EXTREMELY hot and starts smoking and the end of the fuse always melts now. I am trying for the life of me to figure out what in the world could be causing this. Does anyone have any suggestions on what to do first? I am pretty handy but I am not the greatest at the electrical problems like this. Any help would greatly be appreciated. Thanks to all!
|
|
|
01-15-2009, 08:38 PM
|
#2
|
Rivet Master
1963 22' Safari
2020 27' Globetrotter
State of
, Washington
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,512
|
Since the problem has occured have you done any major work on the rear area of the trailer? Perhaps a screw went through a wire? Sounds like you have a pretty solid short circuit going if you're over heating and smoking from that circuit.
__________________
Scott & Megan
VAC LIBRARIAN WBCCI 8671
1963 Safari from the 1963-64 Around the World Caravan
|
|
|
01-15-2009, 08:51 PM
|
#3
|
1 Rivet Member
1975 31' Sovereign
Pensacola
, Florida
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 17
|
Thanks
I did screw in the fuse panel to the wall as well as the Xantrax inv. I think they are far enough away from the entry where that wire comes in. I wasn't sure if it might be the switch in the bathroom or not but I guess you are right it would have to be something pretty hefty to smoke a wire. I do have the trailer plugged into the wall but I am not sure why out of nowhere it would start doing that.
|
|
|
01-15-2009, 08:54 PM
|
#4
|
Rivet Master
1963 22' Safari
2020 27' Globetrotter
State of
, Washington
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,512
|
Might make sure that contacts on the back of the fuse panel aren't getting against the skin. You can also with the power off check with a volt meter for continuity between that circuit and the shell of the trailer.
__________________
Scott & Megan
VAC LIBRARIAN WBCCI 8671
1963 Safari from the 1963-64 Around the World Caravan
|
|
|
01-15-2009, 08:58 PM
|
#5
|
Master of Universe
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction
, Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 12,711
|
You are fortunate the fuse melts, though it should fail quicker, before the wire gets so hot. You have a dead short—i.e., something has made a very good (not in the sense of good is wonderful) complete circuit. Goransons may be correct since a screw could probably connect a hot wire to the trailer body which acts as a ground. It could be a broken wire in a fixture, the switch, an old wire where the insulation has finally worn off and shorted to the trailer body, or the wiring for the old fuse panel. This is not a complete list. You could have crossed wires somewhere when you hooked up the new converter and—perhaps the hot and ground wires to the fuse panel for that particular circuit are crossed. Or, did you somehow connect a 120 v. wire to a 12 v. one?
Does anything work before the fuse blows? If some things do and some things don't, the problem is probably not in the "don't" area, but between do and don't or at the ends of that area.
You may not have know much about electrical systems before, but you soon will get a practical education tracing down the problem. Electrical circuits are very logical, so just follow things through methodically eliminating one thing at a time. If you can get to some wires, and you've eliminated everything else, you may have to pull them out, but first attach new wires to them very securely so you can have new ones ready to use.
Now's the time to buy a multitester to make sure you have 12 v. DC where it should be and 120 v. AC where it should be. You will find that tester a wonderful toy for years to come to check all sorts of things like amps and ohms and volts and amaze your friends when you show them that their houses only get 117.6 v. (or whatever) instead of 120 v. (or they will think you had too much aluminum to eat).
Gene
|
|
|
01-15-2009, 09:11 PM
|
#6
|
Rivet Master
1977 Argosy Minuet 6.0 Metre
1973 21' Globetrotter
1975 26' Argosy 26
Vista
, California
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 589
|
sounds like the connection is loose and it is arching causing the heat and melting the fuse
check the fuse holders' screw connections
Bibbs
|
|
|
01-15-2009, 09:16 PM
|
#7
|
1 Rivet Member
1975 31' Sovereign
Pensacola
, Florida
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 17
|
You guys are great
When I first put the fuse in all the lights from the back hallway and the overhead bathroom lights work. So everything will work with the fuse in but then the lights will flicker and you can smell the fuse getting hot. I guess I will be picking up some tools Friday. When I put a new fuse in the panel my inverter fan comes on as well so I guess I will test out everything to see what is grounding it. I really appreciate all of your help. I am wanting to have this thing done and ready in the next 2 months.
|
|
|
01-15-2009, 11:20 PM
|
#8
|
Rivet Master
2005 25' Safari
Salem
, Oregon
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,378
|
Electrical shorts?
Hi, basic diagnosis:
(1.) Shorts, blow fuses.
(2.) Shorts and circuit overloads, trip circuit breakers.
(3.) Fuses and circuit breakers [correct size] protect wires and circuits.
(4.) Poor connections create heat and melt fuses and wire insulation.
(5.) Poor grounds cause things to work poorly.
(6.) Open circuits, hot or ground, cause things to not work at all.
(7.) Intermittant problems is a whole different animal.
__________________
Bob 2005 Safari 25-B
"Le Petit Chateau Argent" Small Silver Castle
2000 Navigator / 2014 F-150 Eco-Boost / Equal-i-zer / P-3
YAMAHA 2400 / AIR #12144
|
|
|
01-16-2009, 03:19 AM
|
#9
|
Rivet Master
1971 25' Tradewind
1993 34' Excella
Currently Looking...
Estancia
, New Mexico
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,743
|
This is a long shot I'm sure, but there are some 40 amp fuses which are the same size as the 20 amp fuses in some of the Univolts.
__________________
Sail on silver girl. Sail on by. Your time has come to shine.
|
|
|
01-16-2009, 07:21 AM
|
#10
|
Rivet Master
2012 25' FB Eddie Bauer
Vintage Kin Owner
Virginia Beach
, Virginia
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 7,801
|
Warning !
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumatic
This is a long shot I'm sure, but there are some 40 amp fuses which are the same size as the 20 amp fuses in some of the Univolts.
|
AND THE PROBLEM WITH THAT IS.... If you've got a 40 amp where you need a 20 amp, you've turned the WIRE into the fuse! Fuses are designed to blow and give their little lives to protest the wiring and the dwelling from burning. If the fuse isn't blowing until the wire's insulation is smoking you've got a fuse that's the wrong size (this is akin to burning down your house by sticking a penny in the fuse box).
__________________
Today is a gift, that's why they call it the present.
|
|
|
01-16-2009, 07:38 AM
|
#11
|
Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
Corona
, California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
|
Never, ever, increase fuse sizes in the trailer, because one continues to blow.
To do so, is asking for a fire.
There is a partial short within that circuit. A bulb can cause that.
Take all the bulbs out, and see what happens. If the circuit clears, then reinstall the bulbs, one at a time, and observe the results.
Or, get an "ohm" meter, and look for the problem, first killing all the power to the fuse panel.
Andy
|
|
|
01-16-2009, 08:04 AM
|
#12
|
Rivet Master
2012 25' FB Eddie Bauer
Vintage Kin Owner
Virginia Beach
, Virginia
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 7,801
|
Spelling vs meaning!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foiled Again
AND THE PROBLEM WITH THAT IS.... If you've got a 40 amp where you need a 20 amp, you've turned the WIRE into the fuse! Fuses are designed to blow and give their little lives to protect the wiring and the dwelling from burning. If the fuse isn't blowing until the wire's insulation is smoking you've got a fuse that's the wrong size (this is akin to burning down your house by sticking a penny in the fuse box).
|
fingers fast, brain farts
__________________
Today is a gift, that's why they call it the present.
|
|
|
01-16-2009, 04:52 PM
|
#13
|
Retired Moderator
1992 29' Excella
madison
, Wisconsin
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,644
|
if you cannot fix it with a hammer then it is probably an electrical problem.
follow andy's advice and report back.
john
__________________
you call them ferrets, i call them weasels.
|
|
|
01-16-2009, 06:20 PM
|
#14
|
Rivet Master
1971 25' Tradewind
1993 34' Excella
Currently Looking...
Estancia
, New Mexico
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,743
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foiled Again
AND THE PROBLEM WITH THAT IS.... If you've got a 40 amp where you need a 20 amp, you've turned the WIRE into the fuse! Fuses are designed to blow and give their little lives to protest the wiring and the dwelling from burning. If the fuse isn't blowing until the wire's insulation is smoking you've got a fuse that's the wrong size (this is akin to burning down your house by sticking a penny in the fuse box).
|
Absolutely.
Just in case I was not clear, I was not suggesting putting a 40 where a 20 belongs. In some univolts the 40s are the same size and look very much the same as the 20s. If you put a 20 where a 40 belongs
she's a gonna blow. There are other Univolts in which the 40s are much bigger.
Nevermind what you thought I meant. I thought I meant to say what I thought. It's a 60s thang.
__________________
Sail on silver girl. Sail on by. Your time has come to shine.
|
|
|
01-16-2009, 08:15 PM
|
#15
|
Rivet Master
1977 Argosy Minuet 6.0 Metre
1973 21' Globetrotter
1975 26' Argosy 26
Vista
, California
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 589
|
Is the fuse clipped tight in its holder? Is there a good connection at both ends of the fuse? If the fuse holder clip was loose it could get hot. You might need a new fuse holder
bibbs
|
|
|
01-16-2009, 08:46 PM
|
#16
|
1 Rivet Member
1975 31' Sovereign
Pensacola
, Florida
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 17
|
waiting to get to it
Well, I didn't get the chance to do any electrical work today because my wife wanted some rotted flooring cut out (seems like the toilet might have leaked). I am definitely going to try all the suggestions. I think it's time to get an ohms meter and start learning. My wife and I are really chomping at the bit to get this thing done. I will get to it in the morning and let everyone know what happens. Sometimes I think it would be a heck of a lot easier to have just bought a newer one but we had always wanted a vintage airstream so I am not gonna complain. Thanks again everybody.
|
|
|
01-16-2009, 09:00 PM
|
#17
|
Rivet Master
2005 25' Safari
Salem
, Oregon
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,378
|
Shorts, don't melt fuses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyG
Just curious if anyone could give me some suggestions on this little problem we are having. We are restoring (amatuer level) a 1975 31ft rear bath. Recently I replaced the univolt with an Xantrax unit. I managed to save the old fuse panel thank goodness. I installed this about 3 months ago. Now for some reason the 1st fuse (20amp purple wire that goes to the rear bath lights, switch, and hallway overhead light) keeps melting. The wire itself gets EXTREMELY hot and starts smoking and the end of the fuse always melts now. I am trying for the life of me to figure out what in the world could be causing this. Does anyone have any suggestions on what to do first? I am pretty handy but I am not the greatest at the electrical problems like this. Any help would greatly be appreciated. Thanks to all!
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS
Hi, basic diagnosis:
(1.) Shorts, blow fuses.
(2.) Shorts and circuit overloads, trip circuit breakers.
(3.) Fuses and circuit breakers [correct size] protect wires and circuits.
(4.) Poor connections create heat and melt fuses and wire insulation.
(5.) Poor grounds cause things to work poorly.
(6.) Open circuits, hot or ground, cause things to not work at all.
(7.) Intermittant problems is a whole different animal.
|
Hi, only a poor connection at the fuse holder, [or not in this case] direct heat like in a flame or fire, will melt a fuse. [#(4.) above.] And [posts #6 & 15]
__________________
Bob 2005 Safari 25-B
"Le Petit Chateau Argent" Small Silver Castle
2000 Navigator / 2014 F-150 Eco-Boost / Equal-i-zer / P-3
YAMAHA 2400 / AIR #12144
|
|
|
01-17-2009, 12:34 AM
|
#18
|
1 Rivet Member
1975 31' Sovereign
Pensacola
, Florida
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 17
|
Thanks, I think I am going to take the fuse panel off the wall and clean the connections (clips). It seems to me that the post that screws in and holds the wire is black versus the other ones which are silver. I don't know if that makes any difference but I am determined to get it fixed tomorrow. That is my main objective. Thanks
|
|
|
01-17-2009, 06:43 AM
|
#19
|
Rivet Master
1971 31' Sovereign
1967 22' Safari
1958 22' World Traveler
Pardeeville
, Wisconsin
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 569
|
It sure would be nice if the weather here in Wisconsin would allow ME to get out and work on my Safari... I hope it all goes well for you!
__________________
Jay (KB8VMO)
WBCCI #10917
AIR #32349
TAC #WI-2
|
|
|
01-17-2009, 06:51 AM
|
#20
|
Site Team
2002 25' Safari
Dewey
, Arizona
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 15,618
|
I would also verify the size of the fuse that is heating up. Maybe the PO tried to troubleshoot the problem by installing larger fuses. Also make sure that nothing is shorting out the back side of the voltage distribution board to ground.
__________________
Richard
Wally Byam Airstream Club 7513
|
|
|
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
Recent Discussions |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|