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Old 12-09-2010, 10:48 AM   #81
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Hi Lindy,

Yes, I would check the other color wires to make sure that they are good to the rear light fixtures. Those would be the red and brown ones to the turn signal/stop lights.

The blue/white wire in the sheath must be what's left of the brake wire on the front of the trailer. I'd look for a place in the a-frame where the wire could go into. In Little Girl, the brake wire fed back thorugh the frame as far as possible before being attached to the underside of the floor. You may another piece of wire inside the a-frame. But getting to it might be hard, and I wouldn't spend a ton of time looking for it. We (as in you ) can always run a new brake wire along the underside of the trailer.

Chris
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Old 12-09-2010, 03:55 PM   #82
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Better numbers?

Today I cut off all the old wires that were exposed, exposed new connection wires, cleaned those up good and did another meter test with the charger hooked to the appropriate wire and grounded well. ALL (green, red, brown) tested 12.11 or better.

Then I took my license plate light and went to every wire (green, red, brown) and it worked at each site!

As for the strange wire on the tongue(black with blue/white inside), I found the other end. It is, in fact, the wire that goes into the belly pan and is connected to the brakes. It used to be connected to the long wire on the tongue but, since most of it seems to have run UNDER the belly pan instead of inside it, it had long ago gotten cut. This is the wire where the white is bolted to the tongue and the blue is connected to the TV wire but NOT to the blue wire coming out of the trailer.

I've attached pictures of the brake wires showing the blue/white one coming out from the belly pan and then it goes across from the streetside brake to the curb brake. Red wires go into the brake on both sides.

This is what I have coming out of my trailer: red, brown, white, green, black and a tiny little stub of yellow. My TV cord has 7 wires: red, brown, white, green, yellow and 2 blacks.

I still have not found a white wire connected to the frame or skin. The only other black wire I found is in the curbside taillight and it wasn't connected to anything.

You asked if there was a connector on the other end of the umbilical cord. Do you mean is the plug on it that plugs into the TV? No. I have the plug but haven't hooked it up yet.

If you think everything is ready to be hooked together, I will be going to a real town tomorrow and can pick up connectors to hook the TV cord to the trailer cord. But do I need to wait until I get my fuse box for the umbilical cord? I have ordered the fuse boxes that I need but they won't be here until next week.

Just FYI - all my old lady friends are calling me the Meter Maid now. They're impressed with what I've learned from all you guys.

Needless to say, THANKS!
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Old 12-09-2010, 05:00 PM   #83
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Fuse Box?

What do you mean FUSE BOX for the UCord? The only fuses that should be protecting the UCord wiring are those in your TV and they already exist. But it is an option some people use. But where would you put it since you can't locate the wiring inside the trailer? If you mean for the SHORE POWER cord that's a different thing.

When you get the 2 UCords (trailer and TV) connected together, you should test all of your circuits again before putting the trailer plug on.

On the TV UCord check again closely, I think one of those black wires is really dark blue; strip back the outer sheath on the cord about 1/2" to check this.

I don't think you will need the yellow wire since you don't have backup lights.

Match all the colors of the TV and Trailer UCords and connect them. If in fact one of the blacks is blue it should be used for the brakes. If you don't have a blue; perhaps the 2 blacks are different sizes. If that's the case use the larger of the two for the trailer (battery circuit) and the smaller of the two for the brakes.
Since you can't locate the other end of the white (Ground) wire on the trailer UCord and if your lights don't work when you connect the negative (black) lead of the charger to the white wire on the TV UCord you can simply take the splice apart between the TV and Trailer UCord; connect a #10 guage white wire to the end coming from the TV and attach it to the frame of the trailer. You might even be able to hook it in the same place the brake white wire is connected. Just make sure that you clean up the connection point on the frame.
If you are going to use heat shrink tubing to cover the splice point just double the white and black (brake) wire back on itself so that the end of the wires comes out and can be hooked to the frame and to the blue wire for the brakes. Then slide the heat shrink over it and shrink it down.
When you make your splices strip back just enough insulation to where the bare part of the wire fits inside the metal part of the barrel connector; make sure no part of the bare wire is outside the insulating sleeve on the barrel connector. Once you've made the splice pull on the wire with a moderate amount of force to make sure the splice won't come apart. If it does then redo the splice with a new barrel lug.
If you have not used the crimper for these types of crimp connections, there is a proper way to make up the splice. When you put the crimper over the barrel connector make sure you have it over the metal part; not the plastic part of the connector. Also most crimping tools have 2 different size crimping jaws. the larger one (which is usually closest to the handle) is for the yellow barrel lugs; the smaller jaw is for the blue and/or red connectors.
Did you check to see if the black wire in the trailer UCord might be one of the black wires in this photo? They don't look like 10 guage in the photo. Can you see where else they go? The wire on the right looks like a solid wire to me. Must be part of an old AC circuit. Can you tell what it is for?

Getting back to the black (battery) wire; before you put power to this wire make sure it is not touching the trailer at the other end. Use your meter in the 2K mode, read between the frame of the trailer and the black stub on the trailer UCord. If you get a "0" on the meter, it is clear. Of course this still doesn't solve the problem of where the other end of this wire is inside the trailer.

Let us know before you decide to check out the brakes. you don't want to leave the charger connected too long. If the coils are still good you could damage them if left powered too long.

If you want to protect the brake wiring running below the belly pan just get a stick of 1/2" PVC conduit and attach it to the belly pan and run the brake wire thru it.
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Old 12-09-2010, 05:04 PM   #84
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Lindy, Lindy, meter maid... sounds like a Beatles song!

That's all really good news on the lights and the wiring! Congrats on getting this far with your project!!

Also good news on the brake wires. All the ones you showed in the pictures look great. Of course, you'll need to figure out if the brakes actually work, but that's a future project...

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucymcdog View Post
This is what I have coming out of my trailer: red, brown, white, green, black and a tiny little stub of yellow. My TV cord has 7 wires: red, brown, white, green, yellow and 2 blacks.

I still have not found a white wire connected to the frame or skin. The only other black wire I found is in the curbside taillight and it wasn't connected to anything.
The TV cord looks ok, what I can see in the picture anyway. Is the rest of it in good condition too? And it is long enough to reach the TV connector once you're hitched up? If yes, then I think you can install the TV plug on the end of the cord at any time. Since you have 2 black wires, and no blue wire in the cord, you'll need to figure out which black wire at the TV end is the black wire connected to the blue brake wire. You don't want to miss-wire that and end up with +12 volts from the TV connected directly to your brakes. That would not be good.

As far wiring the cord to your trailer, I think we still need to track down the black and white wire that go into the trailer.

Use your multi-meter to verify the white wire is connected to the frame. It should be.

The black wire concerns me though. Since it would be connected to +12 volts coming from your TV, and we don't know where it goes, if you connect it without finding the other end you'll end up with a live 12 volt wire inside the trailer somewhere. Which could easily short out to the skin or the frame and cause problems.

If you can not locate that wire anywhere, then we could simply leave it disconnected and run a new black wire for the +12 volts to the battery and the fuse panel for your 12 volt circuits inside the trailer. That might be your best and safest option.

The yellow wire, which is normally for back-up lights, you can also just leave disconnected. Again, since you do not know where it goes once it's inside the trailer, I'd leave it disconnected from the TV cord completely.

I'm working on a wiring diagram for you, but another commitment this evening will prevent me from finishing it tonight. I'll try and get it to you still this week (if you think you want it).

Chris
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Old 12-09-2010, 08:09 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TG Twinkie View Post

Match all the colors of the TV and Trailer UCords and connect them. If in fact one of the blacks is blue it should be used for the brakes. If you don't have a blue; perhaps the 2 blacks are different sizes. If that's the case use the larger of the two for the trailer (battery circuit) and the smaller of the two for the brakes.

Did you check to see if the black wire in the trailer UCord might be one of the black wires in this photo? They don't look like 10 guage in the photo. Can you see where else they go? The wire on the right looks like a solid wire to me. Must be part of an old AC circuit. Can you tell what it is for? Those wires are 10 gauge wires, not solid AC wires. I'm almost sure they went to the water pump but they were just curled up under the sink. The yellow and black wire on the left are attached to a little on/off switch. The two black wires on the right are connected to a light. I don't know how they were connected together but maybe that yellow wire sticking off to the right went to one of the black wires on the light so that when you turn on the switch for the water pump the light comes on? There is a bare solid ground wire but it wasn't connected to anything.
I'll be picking up my battery and the stuff I need to connect the umbilical cords tomorrow. Hopefully, when I get the UCords connected everything will work. Stay tuned!
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Old 12-09-2010, 08:24 PM   #86
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Did you check to see if one of the yellow wires above is the same as the yellow wire below? Using your meter in the 2K mode and the jumper wire in aforementioned posts.

In the top picture the fuse block (at least I think is for fuses) looks like some sort of power distribution system to different devices. It looks as though you would provide power (a positive 12 volts DC) to the upper left hand corner of it. With fuses in each of the holders for what ever they were used for. But there is no sign of any Black wire? Any where close? Hmmmm! Any holes that a wire could have been pushed into or anything?
Do you have any clue where the 3 yellow wires go from the fuse block?
It looks like someone may have added this after the trailer was built.

If I were to guess, in the bottom photo, I'd say the black wire next to the bare wire on the right were connected and the yellow wire with the wire nut was connected to the other black wire. If the black wire on the far left is the pump, then the yellow wire next to it is the power and it is connected to one of those terminals on the fuse block in the upper picture.

If by chance you can't find heat shrink tubing large enough to work. Pick up a roll of SCOTCH 33 or SCOTCH 99 Electrical tape. It is a very good quality tape and will work well for making the splice area of your UCord weather proof. If you decide to use tape let me know and I'll instruct you on the proper way to wrap it to get a water tight wrap.
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Old 12-10-2010, 11:13 AM   #87
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Well, personally, I think the umbilical cord should be fused. But that might be a religious or political type discussion TG and I can have over a drink at a rally sometime... I think the extra safety is worthwhile. But, mounting the fuse panel could be a problem unless you want to cut open an access panel inside the trailer where the umbilical cord enters. If it were my trailer, I would make the access panel not only for the fuse block, but also to see where the black and white wires go. But, it’s your trailer Lindy, so if you don’t want to make the access hole, I understand and we’ll work around it.

The black +12 volt wire does need to be fused at some point before it connects to the battery. That could be an inline fuse, installed where you’re going to splice the cord to the stubs.

I’ll try and finish the wiring diagram for you this afternoon or evening after work.

Chris
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Old 12-10-2010, 11:55 AM   #88
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Fusing th UCord

I agree with Chris: It is a personal choice. If you plan to install a fused UCord, I would do it now since the existing trailer UCord is sooo short. You could make the access panel on the inside, then run a totally new one piece UCord from the trailer fuse panel to the TV. No splicing of old to new. I am a firm believer in the fewer connections the fewer problems.
Hope your trip to town went well.
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Old 12-10-2010, 03:59 PM   #89
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Hi Lindy,

Here's what I came up with for a wiring diagram. Hope it helps show where the battery and breakaway switch are in relation to the other wiring.

I included the fuse block for the umbilical cord. If you decide to not use that, at a minimum, you’ll still need a 30 amp fuse between the battery and all the other wiring, with the possible exception of the breakaway switch. I’ve seen that wired both directly to the battery, bypassing the fuse, and wired in so the fuse is between it and the battery. To me, since it’s an emergency last-ditch effort to stop the trailer, I would not fuse it.

I also noted that some people (including myself) install a fuse on the negative side of the battery. That’s to provide protection in case the battery is connected backwards.

Let me know if you have any questions or need clarification, or more details on some part of the diagram.

Chris
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Old 12-10-2010, 07:25 PM   #90
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Nice drawing Chris. I'm sure there are a lot of people out there that could use it. Much better than any I've seen in AS documentation. I agree with fusing the negative side of the battery. Maybe we will meet someday at a rally.
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Old 12-10-2010, 07:32 PM   #91
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Thanks TG!
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Old 12-10-2010, 09:25 PM   #92
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wiring diagram

Chris -
Thanks so much for the wiring diagram. I have to take time to study it to see if I can wire up the trailer like you suggest. It helps to have it drawn out so that I can actually see how it goes.

I picked up my battery, battery box, all sorts of wiring and connectors and even found the heat shrink wrap that was recommended to use. I also got my new running lights delivered today but still have to wait for my two fuse boxes.

I do have lots of questions - in no particular order. And I'm sure these won't be the last of the questions.

I would like to use the UCord fuse box (especially since I've already ordered it). I ordered one like in your picture that you posted. I don't have a problem cutting a hole in the trailer (is that blasphemous?) but I'm not sure exactly where I should cut it. The trailer cord comes out from under the thing that goes around the bottom front edge of the trailer (banana peel or something like that?) so it is actually sticking out of the belly pan. Should I cut into the belly pan to see where it is coming from or cut from the inside of the trailer above where it comes out? I can always rivet a patch over any hole that I make. And if I need to cut from the inside, it will be covered up with the dinette that we will be building.

With my battery sitting on the tongue between the propane tanks and the front of the trailer, will I need to cut another hole for the battery cables to come through? I bought 10 gauge black (oops! should this have been white?) and red wiring and connectors that will clamp on to the end of the wires and then will slip over the little bolts that come out of the battery.

The red wire (which will be on the positive bolt) will go into the fuse box but between the battery and the fuse box I need to tie in a black wire for the breakaway switch? Does that need to be 10 gauge as well? And do I just tie it in with the crimp on barrel connectors (and the shrink stuff)? Does the breakaway switch attach to the tongue too? According to your diagram the breakaway switch then ties into the Ucord fuse box on the trailer side of the Ucord fuse box (both the blue and black wires). Could the Ucord fuse box be placed in a waterproof box and sit on the tongue next to the battery? Or would it be better to be inside the trailer?

On the diagram the white wire from the TV cord has a dot and arrow just before the little fuse box. What does that mean?

Right now the blue wire from the TV cord is not connected to the blue wire from the trailer cord. It is connected to that black sheathed wire that was cut and has blue and white in it. (that is the only wire that is connected in the TV cord) Should I just ignore the blue cord from the trailer and hook the black sheathed wire back together and run it through the 1/2" pvc to protect it? That wire is the one that is already attached to the brakes (who knows if they work).

Working my way on down the diagram. How do I install a 30 amp fuse between the negative battery post and where it connects to the frame/ground bus? Do I need another fuse box for just that one fuse? I'm sure the auto supply store would have something like that since that's where I got everything else.

You show the negative wire from the battery tying in to the white wire but I have yet to find a white wire other than the little stub sticking out from the trailer Ucord. Can I just connect the negative black 10 gauge (which should have been white) to the frame itself? Or would that be tied into the black sheathed blue/white wire somehow since you show it going on back to the brakes?

I sure hope I haven't bitten off more than I can chew! This is just the OUTSIDE wiring! Heaven help me when I start wiring up the inside. Or better yet, Forum help me...

I'll sleep on it tonight and take your diagram down the hill with me tomorrow when I go work on the trailer. I'm sure there will be more questions. I really can't do much until I get the fuse boxes so that will give me a few more days to mull it over and think up more questions.

Again, thank you SO much!

Lindy
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Old 12-11-2010, 08:20 AM   #93
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solar panel

I forgot to add that I bought a small plug & play solar panel to keep the battery charged.
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Old 12-11-2010, 08:45 AM   #94
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With my battery sitting on the tongue between the propane tanks and the front of the trailer, will I need to cut another hole for the battery cables to come through? I bought 10 gauge black (oops! should this have been white?) That's OK it's your trailer and you know what it's for. and red wiring and connectors that will clamp on to the end of the wires and then will slip over the little bolts that come out of the battery.

The red wire (which will be on the positive bolt) will go into the fuse box but between the battery and the fuse box I need to tie in a black wire for the breakaway switch? Does that need to be 10 gauge as well? You can use 16 guage for the breakaway switch. I would not fuse the wire going to the breakaway switch. You can attach it at the battery along with the black that goes to the fuse blocks. And do I just tie it in with the crimp on barrel connectors (and the shrink stuff)? If you tie it at the battery you can just use a "ring" connector on the end of the wire. Does the breakaway switch attach to the tongue too? Yes, attach it to the inside of the tongue; if it had one previously there may already be holes for it. Make sure the cable coming off of the switch is long enough to be attached to the TV with enough slack so you won't pull the pin while turning. According to your diagram the breakaway switch then ties into the Ucord fuse box on the trailer side of the Ucord fuse box (both the blue and black wires).In Chris's drawing it is shown as not fused, that's the way I would do it. Could the Ucord fuse box be placed in a waterproof box and sit on the tongue next to the battery? Or would it be better to be inside the trailer? That's a matter of personal choice; BUT the old UCord won't be long enough to reach. I would locate it inside. Then pull the old UCord out and back into the trailer and connect it. Put the new UCord for the TV through the hole that you pulled the old one out of. If I had to guess, I'd say the old UCord is clamped to the frame or one of the outriggers. If it's not too much trouble, maybe you could remove the banana wrap to see where it goes. Or cut a hole or in the flooring or the wall inside to enable you to locate the old UCord.

On the diagram the white wire from the TV cord has a dot and arrow just before the little fuse box. What does that mean? It means it's connected to the frame of the trailer.

Right now the blue wire from the TV cord is not connected to the blue wire from the trailer cord. It is connected to that black sheathed wire that was cut and has blue and white in it. (that is the only wire that is connected in the TV cord) Should I just ignore the blue cord from the trailer and hook the black sheathed wire back together and run it through the 1/2" pvc to protect it? That wire is the one that is already attached to the brakes (who knows if they work). It is wired correctly for the TV brakes but you will have to tie the breakaway switch into it as well. One wire from the break away switch goes to the positive side of the battery. The other wire from the breakaway switch should be attached to the blue wire. You could take off the barrel lug that is there now and attach one of the wires from the breakaway switch. There would then be three wires at this junction.

Working my way on down the diagram. How do I install a 30 amp fuse between the negative battery post and where it connects to the frame/ground bus? Do I need another fuse box for just that one fuse? I'm sure the auto supply store would have something like that since that's where I got everything else. They make fuse holders that mount to a surface or you could just used an "inline" fuse holder. Either way just run a #10 wire from one end of the fuse holder to the battery negative terminal. From the other end of the fuse holder run a wire to the frame. Be sure to get a fuse holder that is rated for 30 amps.

You show the negative wire from the battery tying in to the white wire but I have yet to find a white wire other than the little stub sticking out from the trailer Ucord. Can I just connect the negative black 10 gauge (which should have been white) to the frame itself? Yes. Or would that be tied into the black sheathed blue/white wire somehow since you show it going on back to the brakes? The white wire to the brakes is already tied to the frame as I recall, so that's OK. To be clear there will be a wire from the fuse holder to the frame and another wire (existing) for the brakes.
Don't worry about being in over your head. You were able to troubleshoot the existing wiring in the trailer with a GREAT amount of success. Just take one thing at a time; ask questions if needed ahead of time. I will be happy to help and I'm sure Chris will to.
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Old 12-11-2010, 10:06 AM   #95
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I think TG has answered almost all of your questions. Just to confirm a couple of things:

The arrow looking thingy on my diagram is the electrical symbol for ground. That shows that the white ground wire is connected to the frame. If you can, use the same bolt location that currently attaches the white wire to the frame, and just add any additional white (or in your case, black) ground wires to that bolt. Be sure to clean the frame and the existing ring connector off and use new ring connectors on the new ground wires to ensure good electrical contact.

I'm with TG in placing the ucord fuse block inside the trailer, and pulling the ucord in further to make those connections. It will be a lot easier than trying to put connectors on those stubs sticking out of the belly pan. The only concern I have is to make sure the ucord is still long enough to reach the TV without being unplugged when making a tight turn. If it's too short, then I would buy a new ucord rather than adding splices to the existing one to lengthen it.

On the battery wiring to go inside, that will kinda depend on if you’re going to use the fuse block inside or not.

If you decide not to use the fuse block inside, then you can connect the battery ground wire, the brake white wire, the ucord white wire going to the TV, and the ucord white wire stub coming out of the trailer all to the frame bolt on the tongue, then you already have the ground wire going inside the trailer. And you can do the same thing with the +12 volt wire: use the positive battery post as your junction point. On it you would have the +12 volt wire from the ucord TV (which needs to be fused), the wire going to the breakaway switch (not fused), and wire going into the trailer (that will be fused at the new ganged fuse block). In order to use the black stub wire, you need to know where the other end is (which brings us back to cutting an access panel). You could bypass that wire and just run a new +12 volt wire into the trailer. That would require a new hole through the skin and inside wall, or through the belly pan and floor, depending on which way you want to go. A rubber grommet and vulkum will seal the holes ok.

If you decide to use the fuse block inside like I did, then the ucord from the TV will be pulled inside, and you will need to run the following wires back outside: +12 volt wire to the positive post on the battery, blue wire to the brake line, and white wire to the neg post on the battery or the frame bolt (either one will be fine). If they can all fit through the existing hole, great! If not, then you’ll need to drill a new hole. Again, a rubber grommet and vulkum will seal the hole and protect the wiring.

If you want, once you decide if you're going to use the fuse block, and where it will be located (inside or outside), let me know, and I'll do a more detailed drawing for you, showing where the wires are and if they are connected inside the trailer or outside.

Like TG said, take it one step at a time, and you'll be fine. Ask questions and we'll answer. The inside 12 volt wiring will be a piece of cake compared to the ucord wiring. Promise!

Chris
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Old 12-11-2010, 11:43 AM   #96
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Lindy,
Were you able to identify any of the yellow wires? Refer to my post #86.
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Old 12-11-2010, 12:49 PM   #97
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Dinette

You mentioned earlier that you are installing a dinette in the future. I know this is off the subject. But here is a before and after of the one I built and installed. It had a gaucho up front originally.
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Old 12-11-2010, 12:56 PM   #98
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yellow wires

The yellow wire from the on/off switch doesn't go anywhere. It is a long wire though and could possibly have gone to the water pump which was in the front of the trailer. The yellow wires from the antique fuse box are no more. I took it down since those yellow wires just went to the old water pump and some other kind of pump looking thing. Somebody said it was a pressure pump to keep the old torpedo galvanized water tank pressurized. Which doesn't make sense if it had a water pump. I can send you a picture of both if you need it.

I don't know what I would attach a jumper to in order to see what it does. But what I would like it to do is attach it to my new water pump and would like the little red light to come on when it is turned on. Think we can do that when I get to the inside of the trailer 12VDC wiring?

I hope others in my same predicament are following this thread. The information you guys have given me had been right on target - and works!
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Old 12-11-2010, 01:02 PM   #99
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1965 24' Tradewind
Starkville , Mississippi
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That's YOUR trailer? I already downloaded that picture long ago to save in my "how-to-do-a-dinette" file! I love the way you framed in the end pieces.

When I get to that stage, I'll start another thread and get more info about it - measurements, how high, how you did your table, etc., etc., etc....
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Old 12-11-2010, 01:33 PM   #100
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Trailer umbilical cord?

I know they aren't good pictures but I found these pictures I took after we took out the rotten front floor. I think the Ucord is just to the left of the frame and then goes out through the belly pan and up into the wall? Would it go THROUGH the frame?

Maybe that is where I need to cut a hole in the wall?

If only I had known to do something with it while it was all open...
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