Electrical & 12V system

[TG Twinkie]

Congratulations Lindy!!!!!
I was more than happy to help. When you get ready to do the brakes and dinette and toilet, let me know.

[Minno]

WooHoo Lindy!!!!

Like TG, I was more than happy to help, and will be happy to help on future projects.

Chris

[lucymcdog]

I'm installing my propane detector soon and want to make sure I get things done right. It has a red and a black wire coming out of it. I connect the black wire to the little yellow wire that goes to my fuse box and then connect a white wire to the red one and run it to a screw in the wall for the ground?

Feeling a little insecure here since its been a while since I've messed with this stuff..

Thanks
Lindy

[wasagachris]

Lindy the other way around. The red wire will be 12VDC Positive and the black wire will be 12VDC negative. Red to yello and black to white(ground).

[TG Twinkie]

I agree; Red to Yellow: Black to white. It's that same old problem with trailers having a white common/ground and black for +12 volts. Remember the water pump had red and black wires as well. The propane detector is wired the same way as the pump except there is no switch.

[lucymcdog]

Thanks! I don't know why I can't keep that straight. Or why it can't be consistent with the 12V system in cars. Next time I have to jump start my car I'm going to have to really think about what's "hot" (red?) and what's "not" (black?)!

[TG Twinkie]

Most 12 volt devices like the pump will come with red and black wires. Now the lights (ie marker,tail etc) is a different story.
Jumping the car won't be a problem if your jumper cables are like most and have color coded ends on them. Just match em up. Assuming the wires in your car that are on the battery are red and black that is. Just remember "RED" is positive.

[cella59]

I've gutted the 59,now its time to redo the ac/dc...looking for a dc charger/ ac/dc fuse panel combo. I thought I came across one on one of the sites...now I can't find it. any help would be great...

[TG Twinkie]

Go to page 13 on this post. There are photos of a converter and web sites if you read far enough. Page 10 has photos of the fuse blocks etc.

[tonka71]

very informative - great work, Lindy...color me impressed

[lucymcdog]

Originally Posted by tonka71

very informative - great work, Lindy...color me impressed

I even impressed myself! I couldn't have done it with the help from the folks on the forum. I'm ready to do it again if (when) I can find another little trailer.

[tonka71]

I barely have even gotten started on the '68 when I bought the '76 (my wife is a craigslist addict). Now I have two projects staring at me and no idea where to even begin.

Threads like this are great though...inspiring!

[lucymcdog]

This time with a 1965 24' Tradewind.

With a whole new set of problems, the first of which is the electrical. I have already ordered a new converter and think I can install it by looking to see how I did it in the little trailer. There were two wires going into the old converter (black, white, tiny blue in each wire - is the blue the ground?) as well as the battery wires which have a couple of exposed spots on them. Should I just wrap the battery wires with electrical tape or cut out the bad spots and splice in new wiring? If I do that should I use that shrink stuff to cover the splice?

There is a little metal shelf (4th photo) in the closet with the breaker box that I would like to put the new converter on. Would that work as long as I put a vent in the door? It would certainly be a lot easier to access than in the back end where the old "constavolt" converter was.

The big question now is should I rewire the whole trailer like I did before or go with the existing wiring. The PO said he was an electrician by trade (but out of work) and said it "wasn't up to code but was safe". He was going to leave it as is.

The trailer already has a breaker box with two 20 amp breakers and one 30 amp breaker. The shore power cord is new and is hard-wired directly into the breaker box (I haven't opened the box yet). Is this box sufficient?

This trailer has the original air conditioner and it works. It is controlled by a switch instead of a thermostat so it is either off or on. There is a toggle switch on the a/c itself so both switches have to be on for it to run. The PO had already purchased a thermostat so I'm assuming I can just install it where the switch is (it is on a cabinet in the kitchen)? The wiring for the a/c can be seen in the 6th picture (3rd row, 2nd picture). It is the top wire and goes to a regular light switch type of switch.

All lighting in the trailer is 12V and the overhead lights were replaced by the PO so they are new. The original "spot" lights are in the front over the soon-to-be-dinette that the PO started but didn't finish.

There is a fuse box of sorts that the battery goes to (see 1st photo) but it uses those little glass fuses. I'm assuming I should get another ganged fuse box and run the existing wires through that with "real" fuses?

Enough questions for now - I'm sure there will be more later!

Thanks in advance for your help!

Lindy

[Minno]

Hi Lindy! Kay read your post and suggested that I sit down and see what I thought… My first thought is: You’re ambitious! Second thought: I wish I was close enough to come look at her and see everything first hand… But here goes!

Q: There were two wires going into the old converter (black, white, tiny blue in each wire - is the blue the ground?).

A: I think so. Looks like the bare ground wire was either painted or maybe really corroded? Is there bare copper wire underneath the blue if you scrape it off? Double check by using an ohm meter to test that the wire is really connected to the ground bus in the breaker box.

Q: as well as the battery wires which have a couple of exposed spots on them. Should I just wrap the battery wires with electrical tape or cut out the bad spots and splice in new wiring? If I do that should I use that shrink stuff to cover the splice?

A: Depends on how badly damaged the wire is. Are there any nicks in the wire itself? If it’s branded wire, are any of the strands broken? If yes to either, then replace the wire. If the wire is still good and not badly corroded, then you should be able to use the shrink wrap stuff to cover the broken insulation areas. I would opt for shrink wrap over electrical tape.

Q: There is a little metal shelf (4th photo) in the closet with the breaker box that I would like to put the new converter on. Would that work as long as I put a vent in the door? It would certainly be a lot easier to access than in the back end where the old "constavolt" converter was.

A: As long as it’s strong enough to hold the new converter, and you allow for ventilation, that should be ok.

Q: The big question now is should I rewire the whole trailer like I did before or go with the existing wiring. The PO said he was an electrician by trade (but out of work) and said it "wasn't up to code but was safe". He was going to leave it as is.

A: Kinda hard to say without seeing everything. More a comfort level question for you. Would you feel safer if you re-wired it all?

Q: The trailer already has a breaker box with two 20 amp breakers and one 30 amp breaker. The shore power cord is new and is hard-wired directly into the breaker box (I haven't opened the box yet). Is this box sufficient?

A: Depends on what you want to plug in. The 30 amp breaker is most likely the main breaker from the shore power cable. One of the 20 amp breakers probably feeds the a/c. That leave you one 20 amp breaker for all the other 110 VAC stuff you want to run, including the converter. Which is pretty standard for that age of trailer.

Q: This trailer has the original air conditioner and it works. It is controlled by a switch instead of a thermostat so it is either off or on. There is a toggle switch on the a/c itself so both switches have to be on for it to run. The PO had already purchased a thermostat so I'm assuming I can just install it where the switch is (it is on a cabinet in the kitchen)? The wiring for the a/c can be seen in the 6th picture (3rd row, 2nd picture). It is the top wire and goes to a regular light switch type of switch.

A: Really hard to say. That switch and wire looks like 110 VAC wiring, not a thermostat wire at all. Need more pictures to get a really good look at all the a/c wiring and any controls it might have.

Q: There is a fuse box of sorts that the battery goes to (see 1st photo) but it uses those little glass fuses. I'm assuming I should get another ganged fuse box and run the existing wires through that with "real" fuses?

A: The little glass fuses are real fuses… But, I would replace it with a new fuse panel once you figure out where all the wires go and what they feed. But that's me. If you can figure out where everything goes, and what size fuses to use, and it all works ok, then you might just want to leave it alone.

Congrats on your new trailer too!

Chris

[lucymcdog]

Hi Chris! It is good to hear from you again. I was afraid you wouldn't find my new post to this thread. Thank Kay for me for finding it.

My first thought is: You’re ambitious! Or DUMB!!!

Second thought: I wish I was close enough to come look at her and see everything first hand… Ah! but you can!!! Don't you think Kay deserves a vacation to Colorful Colorado??? Ever been to Mesa Verde? The Great Sand Dunes, Joyful Journey Hot Springs? There's free parking (or a bed inside) for you two any time you're ready!

Q: There were two wires going into the old converter (black, white, tiny blue in each wire - is the blue the ground?).

A: I think so. Looks like the bare ground wire was either painted or maybe really corroded? Nope. It is a solid wire encased in blue. Maybe green faded to blue after 46 years? Is there bare copper wire underneath the blue if you scrape it off? Yes, solid copper wire. Double check by using an ohm meter to test that the wire is really connected to the ground bus in the breaker box. Oh dear, I've got to go back and read the ohm meter lesson. I touch the blue wire and then touch.... what??? I can't plug in the trailer now because I took out the VERY heavy old converter and I'm afraid with all the exposed wire ends, I might fry myself.

Q: as well as the battery wires which have a couple of exposed spots on them. Should I just wrap the battery wires with electrical tape or cut out the bad spots and splice in new wiring? If I do that should I use that shrink stuff to cover the splice?

A: Depends on how badly damaged the wire is. Are there any nicks in the wire itself? Yes. If it’s branded wire, are any of the strands broken? Doesn't look like it. If yes to either, then replace the wire. If the wire is still good and not badly corroded, then you should be able to use the shrink wrap stuff to cover the broken insulation areas. I would opt for shrink wrap over electrical tape. I think I might have to splice it anyway for it to reach the little metal box I'm going to put it in. That way I can cut out the bad and put in the new.

Q: There is a little metal shelf (4th photo) in the closet with the breaker box that I would like to put the new converter on. Would that work as long as I put a vent in the door? It would certainly be a lot easier to access than in the back end where the old "constavolt" converter was.

A: As long as it’s strong enough to hold the new converter, and you allow for ventilation, that should be ok. I've still got some of the perforated stuff I used in the baby trailer that I can put in the door. It gives plenty of ventilation. And, when anybody sits on the potty, they can peek in and make sure the new converter is working!

Q: The big question now is should I rewire the whole trailer like I did before or go with the existing wiring. The PO said he was an electrician by trade (but out of work) and said it "wasn't up to code but was safe". He was going to leave it as is.

A: Kinda hard to say without seeing everything. More a comfort level question for you. Would you feel safer if you re-wired it all? Hmmm.... I was hoping for a yes or no. I think the wires in this trailer are in better shape than in the little one (they ARE 5 years younger!). At least it does have a breaker box so that's more than the other one had. I'll have to talk to my comfort level and see what I want to do.

Q: The trailer already has a breaker box with two 20 amp breakers and one 30 amp breaker. The shore power cord is new and is hard-wired directly into the breaker box (I haven't opened the box yet). Is this box sufficient?

A: Depends on what you want to plug in. The 30 amp breaker is most likely the main breaker from the shore power cable. One of the 20 amp breakers probably feeds the a/c. That leave you one 20 amp breaker for all the other 110 VAC stuff you want to run, including the converter. Which is pretty standard for that age of trailer. I could put in a larger breaker box and add a couple more circuits. But it seems to work with what's there so is it worth the trouble to add more lines? The fridge is original and is gas and electric (don't know if it works) so that means the fridge is on the line with everything else. We don't have a microwave or electric coffee pot but maybe I could add another breaker or two and we could live in luxury!

Q: This trailer has the original air conditioner and it works. It is controlled by a switch instead of a thermostat so it is either off or on. There is a toggle switch on the a/c itself so both switches have to be on for it to run. The PO had already purchased a thermostat so I'm assuming I can just install it where the switch is (it is on a cabinet in the kitchen)? The wiring for the a/c can be seen in the 6th picture (3rd row, 2nd picture). It is the top wire and goes to a regular light switch type of switch.

A: Really hard to say. That switch and wire looks like 110 VAC wiring, not a thermostat wire at all. Need more pictures to get a really good look at all the a/c wiring and any controls it might have. It is 110 VAC wiring. I'll take more pictures of the a/c (it's a weird looking unit). I don't know what a thermostat wire looks like but would guess it is a little bity thing? Where the heck might that be? The toggle switch on the a/c does have high and low so I guess you are supposed to regulate the coolness by that. Do you need a thermostat? I've got a brand new one you can have.

Q: There is a fuse box of sorts that the battery goes to (see 1st photo) but it uses those little glass fuses. I'm assuming I should get another ganged fuse box and run the existing wires through that with "real" fuses?

A: The little glass fuses are real fuses… But, I would replace it with a new fuse panel once you figure out where all the wires go and what they feed. But that's me. If you can figure out where everything goes, and what size fuses to use, and it all works ok, then you might just want to leave it alone. I think I might feel better with a new fuse box like I put in the baby trailer. Tracking down what wire is for what might be difficult though - there are wires everywhere and they all look like VAC wires. There are no little yellow, white, black and green wires anywhere that I can see. The PO said that Airstream used the VAC wires for 12V and you really couldn't tell them apart (this guy said he was an electrician). Could that be?

Congrats on your new trailer too! Thanks! It gives me something to do other than quilting, knitting, teaching exercise class, being the town judge, serving on committees..... Ah... life in a small town...


Chris

[Minno]

I hate to tell you but we just got back from a 2 week trip that included Durango, Albuquerque, and a little tiny town in western Texas named Winters. We went to Carlsbad but got there the day the fire started in the park so missed the cave tour we had reserved. Got our money back - for once the gov't was prompt without being asked! We went to the 4 Corners Vintage Resto Rally. Well worth going to if you can swing it! Next time we plan to actually bring our AS.
Chris is out working in our son's trailer so we can use it next weekend for a TAC rally here. Looooooong story: we're selling our SOB so we can use our son's SOB til the AS is done and son gets back from his Navy sponsored trip to Pearl Harbor in 3 years.
Maybe you should bring your trailer to lovely Minnesota - just don't plan on stopping at any rest areas right now! Stupid Legislature!
I'll cue Chris to check your thread when he gets done....

Kay

[Minno]

Hi Lindy,

Yes, we’ve been away awhile. Haven’t been able to work on Little Girl for a couple of months now due to other family things, some house projects, and a much needed vacation the first part of June. Just completed a fairly major plumbing project for the new boiler that will be installed tomorrow. More work than anticipated. And now, my focus for the next two weeks or so will be building another crib for our new granddaughter that arrived last Tuesday!

I would never say dumb. Perhaps addicted is a good word. You are certainly in good company being addicted to these vintage trailers!

I can't plug in the trailer now because I took out the VERY heavy old converter and I'm afraid with all the exposed wire ends, I might fry myself. Yes, do not plug the trailer in until you’re sure it’s safe.

Oh dear, I've got to go back and read the ohm meter lesson. I touch the blue wire and then touch.... what??? Set the ohm meter to the 0K scale & touch the two probes together. It should read zero ohms (direct short). This will tell you the meter is working ok. Now, touch one probe to the ground bus inside the breaker box, and the other to one of the blue wires. If it reads zero ohms, then the blue wire is ground. If the meter doesn’t change, then the blue wire is not connected to the ground bus and we’ll need to do some more investigating.

I think I might have to splice it anyway for it to reach the little metal box I'm going to put it in. That way I can cut out the bad and put in the new. Good plan!

Hmmm.... I was hoping for a yes or no. I think the wires in this trailer are in better shape than in the little one (they ARE 5 years younger!). At least it does have a breaker box so that's more than the other one had. I'll have to talk to my comfort level and see what I want to do. This is just me speaking here – if it were my trailer, I would re-wire it just so I knew it was all new and good. But, that’s me, and I’ve re-wired my entire house (with all the proper permits and inspections). Re-wiring it is a lot of work and expense, but you already know that from your little trailer.

I could put in a larger breaker box and add a couple more circuits. But it seems to work with what's there so is it worth the trouble to add more lines? The fridge is original and is gas and electric (don't know if it works) so that means the fridge is on the line with everything else. We don't have a microwave or electric coffee pot but maybe I could add another breaker or two and we could live in luxury! If you want to add a microwave, coffee pot, or any other large current sucker, I would add another circuit breaker and a couple of additional outlets. Ideally, the microwave would be on its own circuit. Depending on the brand of the breaker you have, you might be able to find twin breakers, where there are two separate breakers in the same physical breaker device. So, each of the single 20 amp breaker could be replaced with a twin 20 amp breaker pair, and you instantly doubled the number of circuits from 2 to 4 without needed a new breaker box. But, the breakers have to match the box – pretty much means the same brand name and series. Here's a link to a twin 20 amp breaker so you know what I'm talking about: Twin 20-20 Amp Circuit Breaker

It is 110 VAC wiring. I'll take more pictures of the a/c (it's a weird looking unit). I don't know what a thermostat wire looks like but would guess it is a little bity thing? Yes, small wires. Typically 18 gauge. Where the heck might that be? The toggle switch on the a/c does have high and low so I guess you are supposed to regulate the coolness by that. Interesting sounding a/c. Can't wait to see more pics of it. Most roof a/c’s either use a wall thermostat or have one built into the unit itself.

I think I might feel better with a new fuse box like I put in the baby trailer. Tracking down what wire is for what might be difficult though - there are wires everywhere and they all look like VAC wires. There are no little yellow, white, black and green wires anywhere that I can see. The PO said that Airstream used the VAC wires for 12V and you really couldn't tell them apart (this guy said he was an electrician). Could that be? No idea. Seems odd, but strange things happen all the time in these vintage babies. But I think you may have at least partially answered your comfort level question…

It gives me something to do other than quilting, knitting, teaching exercise class, being the town judge, serving on committees..... Ah... life in a small town... I think you should buy a couple more to help fill up all your idle time!

Chris

[lucymcdog]

Originally Posted by Minno

I We went to the 4 Corners Vintage Resto Rally. Well worth going to if you can swing it! Next time we plan to actually bring our AS.

Kay

You went to the restro rally in Alburquerque? We were going to go to it but had just gotten back from our maiden voyage in the little trailer to Mississippi and Texas. I went to it last year and it was fabulous. That is the reason I finally got an Airstream. They made everything look so easy!

Dang! So near and yet so far! If you went down Hwy. 285 then you passed right through our little town.

[lucymcdog]

There were two wires connected to the old converter. Each cloth wrapped wire had a black, white and tiny blue. I put the meter on 20K and touched one end to the blue and one to the ground in the box. On one wire it registered 0.00 on the other it didn't change. Bummer.

Here are pictures of the ancient a/c and original water pump. The PO said the water pump worked but I think I'll get a new one anyway.

When I took the breakers out of the breaker box the wires on the 30 amp one came out before I could tell what went where. I'm assuming that the large black wire goes where I put it but where does the small black go? The large black is the power cord and the small black belongs to the wiring that goes into the trailer.

Its beginning to look more and more like I should just forget the old and bring in some new... If I do that though, how do I wire the a/c since it would need to be between the skins?

[lucymcdog]

Here are the rest of the pictures I forgot to post on the previous posting. The last picture is of one of the overhead vents - where maybe I could put in a fan?