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Old 09-02-2017, 07:26 PM   #81
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I've been following the various threads about the Micro-Air Easy Start. I am interested in installing on both of my trailer's AC units since all of the comments have been positive.
Now I use a single Honda 2000 Companion to charge the batteries. I only have a single battery in one trailer, two in the other, and do not intend to upgrade the batteries or add solar panels to either of my trailers.

A few questions:
1. Can anyone speak of their experience when both the AC unit and the converter/charger (~9-10 amps ac) run at the same time while connected to their Honda 2000. Is the power draw high enough to affect the generator function?
2. Is their any issue installing it on a heat pump, is it different from installing on an AC?
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Old 09-02-2017, 08:12 PM   #82
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1. Can anyone speak of their experience when both the AC unit and the converter/charger (~9-10 amps ac) run at the same time while connected to their Honda 2000.
Are you asking about pulling 9-10 amps in addition to running the AC while on the Honda? That will not work as the Honda will not put out 13ish + 9 = 22 amps. While running the AC on the Honda, you should keep your other power draws to an absolute minimum.
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2. Is their any issue installing it on a heat pump, is it different from installing on an AC?
The AC's on new airstreams are heat pumps, i.e., they can run backwards to generate heat. Useful if you are on shore power and run out of propane in cold weather. So no issue AFAIK.
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Old 09-02-2017, 08:35 PM   #83
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Are you asking about pulling 9-10 amps in addition to running the AC while on the Honda? That will not work as the Honda will not put out 13ish + 9 = 22 amps. While running the AC on the Honda, you should keep your other power draws to an absolute minimum.
<<< snip>>>
Yes, that is exactly my question.
The specs for the Power Max Boondocker converters I installed in my trailers says they have a maximum draw of 10 amps a 108v ac. I do not know its actual draw.
If only the air conditioner or heat pump can run on a 2000 watt generator using the MA-ES, it would be necessary to disable the converter and/or any other thing (fridge or water heater element) that could drawing 120v? Is this what everyone does? It can easily be done by switching off it's power supply at the breaker or switching the fridge to propane.
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Old 09-03-2017, 06:07 AM   #84
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good to know.. what is size of board? what is different with two products. you sell the other item, 364, board only with no case? thanks
The circuit board inside of the EasyStart 364 is a totally different layout arrangement than the circuit board for the EasyStart 366. The EasyStart 366 circuit board is designed to support either 3-ton or 6-ton applicaitons (depending on which components get populated) and is meant to be mounted on 4 corner standoffs. The circuit board inside of the EasyStart 364 only supports 3-ton applications and was custom designed to precisely fit its IP65 enclosure and to provide clearances for the enclosed start cap. In the firmware, the two boards are very similar. The dimensions of the EasyStart 366 are as follows: 5.45in/138mm x 3.35in/85mm.

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Yes, that is exactly my question.
The specs for the Power Max Boondocker converters I installed in my trailers says they have a maximum draw of 10 amps a 108v ac. I do not know its actual draw.
If only the air conditioner or heat pump can run on a 2000 watt generator using the MA-ES, it would be necessary to disable the converter and/or any other thing (fridge or water heater element) that could drawing 120v? Is this what everyone does? It can easily be done by switching off it's power supply at the breaker or switching the fridge to propane.
Hello AW - To add to dasams' responses, if your converter is in rapid (bulk) or absorption charging mode, then the amount of power it draws from the AC source (2000W generator) will be too much to support in addition to the steady-state draw of your air conditioner. This is why a few customers occasionally experience a situation where the EasyStart allows their A/C to start, but it won't stay running because the 2000W generator overloads due to the TOTAL SUM of the loads drawn by the trailer. In my experience, both the refrigerator and the water heater need to be manually switched to propane, and the converter needs to either be in float mode or switched off at its AC circuit breaker. Please also realize that even if the batteries are charged, if the converter is left turned on at its circuit breaker and you suddenly turn on a bunch of DC lights and/or DC fans, the converter will attempt to power those by drawing energy from the AC source (2000W generator) again instead of letting the batteries handle it, which could then easily bring its AC demand back up to what it draws during bulk or absorption mode, once again resulting in a generator overload condition when combined with the steady-state draw of the A/C after its compressor has started.
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Old 09-03-2017, 07:31 AM   #85
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Installing LED bulbs will help reduce the lighting load,, allowing the AC to run when lights are on.
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Old 09-03-2017, 07:34 AM   #86
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The situation Matteo describes above is what happened to me.

I installed the EasyStart (not hard to do at all) and the AC fired right up on my Honda 2000. I decided to test it again a few days later and the AC wouldn't start. I emailed Matteo and he explained this situation. I switched the converter off and the AC started up just fine.

So when I first tested it, my converter just happened to be in float mode. The next time it was charging.

It's easy enough to switch the converter off so to me it isn't a big deal at all.

It's also worth noting the the compressor kicks in much more quietly with the EasyStart - you don't get that big clunk.

It is also worth noting that when I emailed Matteo he was on his way out of town and said he might have intermittent service to reply. And it was a weekend. Nonetheless he replied very quickly during the weekend- no waiting until the office opened on Monday.

It's a great product with great service.
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Old 09-03-2017, 07:38 AM   #87
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Where do you locate the easy start in a 2014 25 ft ?
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Old 09-03-2017, 08:08 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by Wayne&Sam View Post
It's a great product with great service.
Thank you, Wayne!

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Where do you locate the easy start in a 2014 25 ft ?
Your 2014 very likely has the Dometic Penguin II rooftop A/C installed. The EasyStart 364 gets installed and wired inside the A/C itself on the roof (outside portion), underneath its big plastic cover. Check out the installation guide for the Dometic Penguin II in the installation resources section of our new EasyStart™ Knowledge Bank.
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Old 09-03-2017, 08:24 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by Micro-Air View Post
<<snip>>
Hello AW - To add to dasams' responses, if your converter is in rapid (bulk) or absorption charging mode, then the amount of power it draws from the AC source (2000W generator) will be too much to support in addition to the steady-state draw of your air conditioner. This is why a few customers occasionally experience a situation where the EasyStart allows their A/C to start, but it won't stay running because the 2000W generator overloads due to the TOTAL SUM of the loads drawn by the trailer. In my experience, both the refrigerator and the water heater need to be manually switched to propane, and the converter needs to either be in float mode or switched off at its AC circuit breaker. Please also realize that even if the batteries are charged, if the converter is left turned on at its circuit breaker and you suddenly turn on a bunch of DC lights and/or DC fans, the converter will attempt to power those by drawing energy from the AC source (2000W generator) again instead of letting the batteries handle it, which could then easily bring its AC demand back up to what it draws during bulk or absorption mode, once again resulting in a generator overload condition when combined with the steady-state draw of the A/C after its compressor has started.
Great explanation!
Thanks
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Originally Posted by Wayne&Sam View Post
The situation Matteo describes above is what happened to me.

I installed the EasyStart (not hard to do at all) and the AC fired right up on my Honda 2000. I decided to test it again a few days later and the AC wouldn't start. I emailed Matteo and he explained this situation. I switched the converter off and the AC started up just fine.

So when I first tested it, my converter just happened to be in float mode. The next time it was charging.

It's easy enough to switch the converter off so to me it isn't a big deal at all.

It's also worth noting the the compressor kicks in much more quietly with the EasyStart - you don't get that big clunk.

It is also worth noting that when I emailed Matteo he was on his way out of town and said he might have intermittent service to reply. And it was a weekend. Nonetheless he replied very quickly during the weekend- no waiting until the office opened on Monday.

It's a great product with great service.
Thanks! Real world experience is what I was looking for.
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Old 09-26-2017, 07:32 PM   #90
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Two questions about these Easy Start units: first, would having it in the 1 AC of my 2014 25' Flying Cloud enable me to start and use the AC while plugged into normal household power at a friend's ranch? Second, a dealer told me (yeah, i know), it might void the warranty on the Dometic AC unit, so I'm wondering if there are any long term effects on the unit that anyone knows of? Thanks for any advice, I'm no electrician.
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Old 09-26-2017, 07:55 PM   #91
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I ran my a/c on household power without trouble using the Easy Start with a heavy duty extension cord. I had trouble at first because my 15-30 amp adapter was bad and heating up. Replaced it with new and it works fine. You will want to minimize other loads though.
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Old 09-27-2017, 04:11 AM   #92
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Two questions about these Easy Start units: first, would having it in the 1 AC of my 2014 25' Flying Cloud enable me to start and use the AC while plugged into normal household power at a friend's ranch? Second, a dealer told me (yeah, i know), it might void the warranty on the Dometic AC unit, so I'm wondering if there are any long term effects on the unit that anyone knows of? Thanks for any advice, I'm no electrician.
Hello LittleWolf. To add to dmac's comment, yes, with EasyStart you can start and run your A/C from a 20A outlet, providing the total load of the trailer is below 20A. We do not recommend that you use a 15A outlet because a 15k Dometic Penguin II will draw about 14.5A on a hot day, thus using up all of that circuit's capacity leaving no headroom for auxiliary loads in your trailer that were not turned off at their circuit breakers.

Regarding the EasyStart's long term effects, we don't have any documented side-by-side compressor life test data as of yet since that takes years to accumulate. However, theory dictates and we therefore will go on record to claim that use of the EasyStart protects your compressor far better than any factory configuration, thus extending its usable life. This is primarily for 2 reasons. First, the EasyStart continues to monitor your compressor for 5 different fault conditions after the startup is completed, during steady state operation, and will shut it down instantaneously if any of these potentially harmful conditions occur. None of the major RV rooftop A/C OEMs (Dometic or Coleman/Airxcel) offer this sort of protection in their control electronics or factory configurations. Second, the act of "soft starting" a compressor versus "hard starting" eliminates both the inertial stress on the motor mechanics as well as the electrical stress on the motor windings. This is the reason why the EasyStart not only dramatically reduces the current surge during startup, but also the audible noise that the compressor makes during startup. Use of an EasyStart is akin to a "gentle push", versus being hit over the head with a baseball bat. Obviously the latter might shorten your life!
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Old 09-27-2017, 06:08 PM   #93
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None of the major RV rooftop A/C OEMs (Dometic or Coleman/Airxcel) offer this sort of protection in their control electronics or factory configurations. Second, the act of "soft starting" a compressor versus "hard starting" eliminates both the inertial stress on the motor mechanics as well as the electrical stress on the motor windings. This is the reason why the EasyStart not only dramatically reduces the current surge during startup, but also the audible noise that the compressor makes during startup. Use of an EasyStart is akin to a "gentle push", versus being hit over the head with a baseball bat. Obviously the latter might shorten your life!
Matteo, I installed your product this year and it works well. I am curious though, and I guess all we can do is speculate...but why wouldn't the manufacturers simply integrate this technology into their A/C units? Is their something proprietary about it?
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Old 09-27-2017, 06:42 PM   #94
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Matteo, I installed your product this year and it works well. I am curious though, and I guess all we can do is speculate...but why wouldn't the manufacturers simply integrate this technology into their A/C units? Is their something proprietary about it?
pcskier - Another good question, with a very long answer, which might surprise you and everyone else. I'll do my best to keep it brief, which you already well know isn't my strong suit .

There are two major RV HVAC OEM players: Dometic and Airxcel (makers of Coleman brand rooftops). Let's talk about Dometic first.

Micro-Air is a strategic supplier for Dometic's marine division (makers of the Marine Air Systems and Cruisair brands of marine HVAC), and has been for over 30 years long before Dometic owned these brands. Dometic bought the marine HVAC business in 2003 and added it to their existing RV and Sanitation (Sealand toilet) businesses in the USA. Dometic's marine manufacturing locations were and still are in the USA. However, Dometic's RV rooftop manufacturing (for the Penguin II, Brisk II, and NXT models) is now exclusively in China. No matter how good or unique the electronics design is, China will not - I repeat will not ever - import a control from the USA to incorporate into their product. It'll never happen, and we know this first hand. Remember, I worked for Dometic marine for 10 years before joining Micro-Air.

Second, let's talk about Airxcel/Coleman. Their RV Rooftop division, formerly known as "RVP", was acquired by Airxcel from Carrier years ago, and is still manufacturing in high volume in Wichita, KS. Airxcel also had a marine HVAC division/brand called Marvair based in Cordell, GA. Both are still there, but the marine division got bought out by Dometic about 3 years ago. Prior to that buyout, Marvair marine used the EasyStart extensively. The RV division caught wind of this and incorporated the EasyStart into a special 240V/50Hz rooftop model they were building for Australia for sale to the Jayco trailer factory there. They started using EasyStarts in high volume, but eventually lost the contract at Jayco to AirCommand, which is now also part of Dometic since they got bought out as part of Dometic's aquisition of the Atwood company. (There are obviously too many corporate acquisitions!) In any case, while we were in at Airxcel/Coleman, and I was actually working with them in the factory in Wichita, I posed the question to them as to why they would not consider incorporating the EasyStart into their domestic 115V models. The answer was and still is that big, 4-letter, corporate dirty word: COST. Since Airxcel/Coleman was in such a fierce price war with Dometic RV (and still are to this day), Coleman would not even consider adding EasyStart even as an option, even at their deep OEM discount.

Part of the problem is that neither OEM fully understands what everyone here in this forum has taught us at Micro-Air. Honestly, if you had asked me 3 years ago if EasyStart could be the smashing success it is presently in the RV aftermarket, I would have told you no way. We're an OEM as well, and it wasn't that hard to figure out! Fact is, the RV owners such as yourself and everyone here can plainly see how it simply makes sense and is more cost effective to buy a $259 soft starter instead of a second generator, or a larger generator or inverter. It's really a no brainer, but none of the HVAC OEMs - neither Dometic nor Airxcel - understand or would even remotely accept this reality. And I'm not kidding you about this point. I've seen it first hand. Certainly, if either Dometic RV or Airxcel/Coleman had spent the last year engaging with their own customer base - YOU and everyone else here (!) - they would think otherwise. They've been in the RV market a lot longer than we have at Micro-Air, so why they haven't engaged well enough, I cannot answer.

So, that's why the OEMs aren't interested in incorporating EasyStart...yet. Although we've written off Dometic, we have a remote hope that someday we can get back into Airxcel/Coleman, but we're also very happy selling to the RV aftermarket. We've got a couple tricks up our sleeve which will be unveiled at the upcoming RVIA trade show in late November in Louisville. It's going to rattle the OEMs a bit and show them how easy it is to incorporate EasyStart.

We'll see what happens. Thanks for the question, and sorry for the long answer!
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Old 09-27-2017, 06:58 PM   #95
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its not the product, its the $$ to add to a super cheap product, I bet...
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Old 09-27-2017, 07:02 PM   #96
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Matteo, I hope you have or are working on patents!
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Old 09-27-2017, 07:05 PM   #97
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The end of Matteo’s description is why makes it all clear to me. When I start my AC with Easystart, you don’t hear that “clunk” of the compressor kicking in. It’s smooth and not very noticeable. It has to be easier on the unit.
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Old 09-28-2017, 11:10 AM   #98
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Hello LittleWolf. To add to dmac's comment, yes, with EasyStart you can start and run your A/C from a 20A outlet, providing the total load of the trailer is below 20A. We do not recommend that you use a 15A outlet because a 15k Dometic Penguin II will draw about 14.5A on a hot day, thus using up all of that circuit's capacity leaving no headroom for auxiliary loads in your trailer that were not turned off at their circuit breakers.

Regarding the EasyStart's long term effects, we don't have any documented side-by-side compressor life test data as of yet since that takes years to accumulate. However, theory dictates and we therefore will go on record to claim that use of the EasyStart protects your compressor far better than any factory configuration, thus extending its usable life. This is primarily for 2 reasons. First, the EasyStart continues to monitor your compressor for 5 different fault conditions after the startup is completed, during steady state operation, and will shut it down instantaneously if any of these potentially harmful conditions occur. None of the major RV rooftop A/C OEMs (Dometic or Coleman/Airxcel) offer this sort of protection in their control electronics or factory configurations. Second, the act of "soft starting" a compressor versus "hard starting" eliminates both the inertial stress on the motor mechanics as well as the electrical stress on the motor windings. This is the reason why the EasyStart not only dramatically reduces the current surge during startup, but also the audible noise that the compressor makes during startup. Use of an EasyStart is akin to a "gentle push", versus being hit over the head with a baseball bat. Obviously the latter might shorten your life!
Many thanks for that explanation. (And for replying to my email a few hours prior!) Its 2017, my AS is a 2014, what the heck am I worried about a warranty that has already lapsed?! So placed the order and am looking forward to testing this out; it makes sense that installing an Easy Start could actually be a protective measure for the motor. Wondering, however, how a user knows the Easy Start has detected one of the fault conditions? The installation is up top, so if my AC suddenly turns off my first assumption is my AC isn't functioning not that I'm being protected from using it because of an unsafe condition. Is there a way to know? (Or does this even matter because I'm going to have to call someone to look at it either way?! Think I just answered my own question).
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Old 09-28-2017, 11:33 AM   #99
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Matteo will no doubt give a better answer, but here's what I've found.

There are LEDs on the Eaystart that indicate the condition. It does require removing the AC cover and being up on the roof, so it's not very convenient.

However, usually it's a transient power problem - like something else in the trailer kicked on and caused an over load. Pretty quickly you learn to avoid that. And most importantly, the EasyStart resets itself in five minutes. If it goes out, just wait and it will come back on.
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Old 09-28-2017, 11:46 AM   #100
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Wondering, however, how a user knows the Easy Start has detected one of the fault conditions? The installation is up top, so if my AC suddenly turns off my first assumption is my AC isn't functioning not that I'm being protected from using it because of an unsafe condition. Is there a way to know? (Or does this even matter because I'm going to have to call someone to look at it either way?! Think I just answered my own question).
LittleWolf - that's another good question. Since the EasyStart will interrupt the compressor by itself, the thermostat will obviously not report anything is wrong and will indicate all is fine and still running. The fan will also keep running. The only thing that will tip you off that there is a problem is your A/C will be blowing warm air when it shouldn't be. Of course, the first 5 minutes after a power interruption and the A/C comes back on, the EasyStart deliberately inhibits compressor operation as part of its short-cycle prevention. However, if in the middle of use the A/C is blowing warm air when it shouldn't be, then the EasyStart is likely faulted for some reason. The EasyStart will attempt to restart the compressor every 5 minutes, so you might hear this happening. And, depending on the fault, the compressor might run a little while if the fault condition is delayed, or it might not even start since the fault occurs right away.
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