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Old 04-08-2013, 02:01 AM   #1
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Does this breaker box need to be rewired?

Attaching multiple photos to show you what I've got....

Started another thread attempting to figure out how to find a Hubbell "Twist-Lock" plug for my inlet. Fairly sure it's a non-NEMA plug. If I had to bet, I'd guess that the matching plug for the inlet is a Hubbell 3333c, for which you can see images here. The middle prong on my inlet is a "plunger", so I think it's actually a dummy.

Anyway, about the breaker.... it says it's rated for 125 max amps!!! Something else about this trailer [which is an Avalair -- off shoot cross between Avion & Airstream, BTW] is that it has a "secondary junction" box w/ 15 amp wire & adapter on the outside next to the twist lock inlet. Sooo... I'm really not quite too sure about how to wire a breaker box, but it appears to me that the black cable is the secondary junction box from outside. The yellow cable is the 30-amp inlet, but it appears that all its wires go to the ground bars... altho, now that I'm thinking about it... one of these bars is likely ground, and the other is a "hot bar". I'm only acting like I know what I'm talking about here. I'm guessing that the green & white wires are the hot wires, and the black wire is the ground wire. Just a guess....

Hopefully the pictures look clear enough.
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Old 04-08-2013, 06:22 AM   #2
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The one thing that jumps out at me is: What's that black wire that goes straight to the bus bar, sans breaker, in the second picture? Presumably that's the incoming power, but you'd want that on a breaker, too.
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Old 04-08-2013, 06:43 AM   #3
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Get someone that KNOWS what they are doing.

I see multiple code violations in those pictures.

FWIW Black is the Hot feed, White is the neutral and green is the ground.

Yes the box needs to be rewired.

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Old 04-08-2013, 08:30 AM   #4
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Accident waiting to happen!

Sorry, but that has to be one of the WORST wiring jobs I have seen. Re-wire............ABSOLUTELY!

Start with separating the neutrals and grounds into separate bus bars. Add strain relief to the incoming wires at the case openings. No input breaker. No visible chassis ground ( since there is no ground bus bar). Clean up all of the wiring so it enters the breakers or bus bars at right angles.

And that's just for starters!

YES! Definitely get someone (NOT an amateur) who really knows how to wire an RV-specific breaker box.
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Old 04-08-2013, 09:52 AM   #5
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You might take a look at this from VTS to replace the plug:
Furrion 30A Round Stainless Inlet
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Old 04-08-2013, 10:31 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lewster View Post
Sorry, but that has to be one of the WORST wiring jobs I have seen. Re-wire............ABSOLUTELY!

Start with separating the neutrals and grounds into separate bus bars. Add strain relief to the incoming wires at the case openings. No input breaker. No visible chassis ground ( since there is no ground bus bar). Clean up all of the wiring so it enters the breakers or bus bars at right angles.

And that's just for starters!

YES! Definitely get someone (NOT an amateur) who really knows how to wire an RV-specific breaker box.
Lewster

I was wondering if the grounds and neutrals needed to be separated. Is an input breaker required? Could you please tell me where I can get an RV specific breaker box? I don't need one with the 12v stuff as my 12v box is on the other side of the trailer.

Thanks in advance, Dan
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Old 04-08-2013, 11:23 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lewster View Post
Sorry, but that has to be one of the WORST wiring jobs I have seen. Re-wire............ABSOLUTELY!

Start with separating the neutrals and grounds into separate bus bars. Add strain relief to the incoming wires at the case openings. No input breaker. No visible chassis ground ( since there is no ground bus bar). Clean up all of the wiring so it enters the breakers or bus bars at right angles.

And that's just for starters!

YES! Definitely get someone (NOT an amateur) who really knows how to wire an RV-specific breaker box.
So you're suggesting the breaker box needs to be replaced??

I texted these photos to a professional yesterday, and he quoted me $225 for "rewiring the power supply and bringing it up to date", and that even includes the Hubbell plug w/ wire that I need. Seems like a fairly good deal, but I'm not exactly sure what he means by "rewiring the power supply and bringing it up to date".
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Old 04-08-2013, 11:24 AM   #8
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All things considered, a new properly sized circuit breaker box with new breakers would be the best solution and they are relatively inexpensive at the likes of Home Depot and Lowe's.

Also, any circuits around water - kitchen, bathrooms and outside - require GFI (ground fault interrupter) breakers which are more expensive than regular breakers. That is a requirement of the NEC (National Electrical Code) since the early 70s.
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Old 04-08-2013, 01:10 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grndslm View Post
Hopefully the pictures look clear enough.
It's clear that someone left you a mess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lewster View Post
Sorry, but that has to be one of the WORST wiring jobs I have seen. Re-wire............ABSOLUTELY!
I've seen worse, but only in buildings originally wired when REA came through.

Quote:
Start with separating the neutrals and grounds into separate bus bars. Add strain relief to the incoming wires at the case openings. No input breaker. No visible chassis ground ( since there is no ground bus bar). Clean up all of the wiring so it enters the breakers or bus bars at right angles.
There is a ground terminal in the bottom center but it isn't large enough. He will have to add a ground bar. Usually it's workable to adapt whatever ones are readily available though it will take some drilling.

Quote:
YES! Definitely get someone (NOT an amateur) who really knows how to wire an RV-specific breaker box.
+1



Quote:
Originally Posted by 68 TWind View Post
You might take a look at this from VTS to replace the plug:
Furrion 30A Round Stainless Inlet
As has been pointed out to you before, you should remove the obsolete inlet and throw it away. If you don't want to spend the money on a new inlet then just use a 30a cord, permanently installed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TouringDan View Post
I was wondering if the grounds and neutrals needed to be separated.
Yes

Quote:
Is an input breaker required?
Not if there are 6 or fewer breakers and the shore power cord is sized to match the plug with which it terminates

Quote:
Could you please tell me where I can get an RV specific breaker box? I don't need one with the 12v stuff as my 12v box is on the other side of the trailer.
Airstream used an ordinary Square D QO load center in my trailer. They work fine. Any breaker box can be used as long as it has a ground bar that is separate from the neutral bar. For many breaker boxes, the ground bar can be purchased separately.

Quote:
Originally Posted by grndslm View Post
So you're suggesting the breaker box needs to be replaced??
Nothing wrong with the box itself, but the wiring is terrible.

Quote:
I texted these photos to a professional yesterday, and he quoted me $225 for "rewiring the power supply and bringing it up to date", and that even includes the Hubbell plug w/ wire that I need. Seems like a fairly good deal, but I'm not exactly sure what he means by "rewiring the power supply and bringing it up to date".
Either his rates are incredibly reasonable or he has no idea what he's getting into and will change the price once he figures that out.

Again, throw away the inlet you have, even if he has a matching end in his junk drawer you'll be up a creek if something happens to it while you're on the road. You can buy 30a Marinco cables anywhere.
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Old 04-08-2013, 09:20 PM   #10
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Jammer

Thanks for answering my questions. I was hoping that you or Lewster would step in and clear it up for me.

I have looked at the Square D panel boxes at Lowes. I just don't like the size. They are 12.5" long by 9" wide and will hold 6 breakers. I will probably try to work with the original panel box. It has a 30 amp main circuit breaker with two 20 amp circuit breakers and is much smaller.

Dan
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