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Old 01-27-2005, 08:50 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In
Technically, there is no such thing as a 12 volt DC fluorescent light, since a fluorescent light must operate on 120 volts AC, or there abouts.
Andy

Well, if we're going to be technical.... Fluorescent tubes are not constant voltage devices. As the gas ionizes the resistence drops and, unless the voltage is controlled, the tube will draw more and more amperage until it fails. This is one of the functions of a "ballast".

While large lamps can require hundreds, or even a 1000 + volts in startup voltage, I would guess that Andy is about right for the small 12" or 18" lamps we see in RVs; probably 150 volts, give or take. The operating voltage will quickly fall, however, and again I am guessing, to maybe 30 volts. Certainly not much more than that, anyway.

On the more practical side, I installed four fluorescent light fixtures in our coach and they certainly make it a more cheerful place at night. Those undervolted automotive bulbs were so yellow and gloomy! And at a fraction of the amperage per lumen.

Mark
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Old 01-28-2005, 08:18 AM   #16
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So let's see if I have this. 12V is 12V. Some Flor lights may not bother my ssensitivities and there are different freq ballasts. Already knew about the sun light, have one in my office. Be careful with lights that get hot. Three LED's arrived yesterday. I'll test these and post impressions.
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Old 01-28-2005, 10:39 AM   #17
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Airstream put 12 1.4A Thin-Lite fluorescents in our trailer, and we don't have a problem with light color or flicker. However, as the temperature falls, so does their light output. It's nice to have the incandescent sconce just inside the door, when the heat has been off.

In several places, they used a pair of them at ceiling height, where the distance from light to surface is greater. For example, two overhead in the salon, galley, and dressing areas. There is also a pair over the mirror in the head. The single one over the couch is sufficient for reading, but there are also two incandescent reading lights on either side of it. The single one over the berth is adequate, given the two incandescent reading lights under the overhead cabinet and two incandescent sconces on the mini-wardrobes. The single one under the microwave and over the appliance garage is great. Where one falls a bit short is over the sink. That should've been two, or one of the larger models.

It's nice to have them in pairs, where you can have the extra light when on shorepower but cut light and thus power use down when boondocking.

LED's emit a light beam from their end, and aren't well-suited to overall illumination. They do work well in reading or task lighting applications, however. Many of the so-called "white" LEDs have a significant bluish tint, but there are those with a warmer color.
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Old 01-28-2005, 04:52 PM   #18
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A couple of sources for 12volt rope light...

I have been thinking of using 12volt rope light when I get to the point of being able to tackle that part of my AS remodel. So far I have found a couple of sources for the stuff that look promising:

http://www.christmaslightsetc.com/rope-light.asp

http://www.platinumsales.com/

The first site seems to have the best pricing for the rope. Kits of 150' with 5 sets of hardware run about $120. Less than $1.00 per foot seems like a pretty good deal. They also sell interesting special effects controllers that could make your AS light up like a christmas tree. The second site sells a 12' dimmer switch (as well as the rope light too).

Does anyone reading this have any direct experience with the use of 12' rope light? I like indirect lighting have use 110 volt rope lighting to good effect for that in our home. I have not yet found if these suppliers indicate how much light is ouput per foot of rope.

Malcolm
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Old 01-28-2005, 06:18 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Over59
Well simple things sure aren't. I am designing the light for "The Bat Cave Express", my 1959 Overlander. When the weather warms I'll be ready to wire. Flurescent lights are out. Applications include reading lights, kitchen work lighting, night lights, ect. When I have the wiring all laid out I'll know what I need for a DC panel, number and size of circuits. I've been looking at the marine lighting and it's low watt stuff for the most part. I was expecting the amps to be equivalent like 1 amp ac shines like 1 amp dc.
The lights that came in my trailer were #1141, there is a wide angle 1141 LED equivalent that uses less than 10% of the power, and puts out the same light.
You can also look into DC halogen lights, they put out a lot of light, but I am not sure about power consumption.
Terry
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Old 01-28-2005, 06:52 PM   #20
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The lights that came in my trailer were #1141, there is a wide angle 1141 LED equivalent that uses less than 10% of the power, and puts out the same light.
You can also look into DC halogen lights, they put out a lot of light, but I am not sure about power consumption.
Terry
LED development is proceeding quickly, but I don't think there is anything currently available to replace an 1141 with more lumins in white light. There are some incredibly efficient red and even better green leds. The red ones are being sold for turn signal lamps.

12 volt Halogen bulbs are rated in watts, so the energy consumption is easy to figure. Watts = Volts X Amps. Halogen must be selected carefully to get the most out of them. If undervolted they do not get hot enough and burn off too much energy in non-visible wavelengths, plus a dark film will coat the inside of the bulb greatly reducing the light output. Of course, if overvolted they burn out faster. The problem for boondockers is that supplied voltage can vary between 13 and about 11.2 volts. Under these conditions a 12 volt halogen will become LESS efficient than an ordinary incadescent fairly quickly.

Mark
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Old 01-28-2005, 07:26 PM   #21
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I put 120VAC rope lighting over the valances in our 34's salon. All I could get was 18', but I found a 2' extension to do the 20' required. I also installed a sliding dimmer in the cord. I don't have any nighttime pictures, just this one:



These really have to be dimmed down to get a good mood effect at night. You might try a set of 120VAC lamps on 12VDC and see how bright they are. I was going to try ours on 12VDC but never got around to it. I used NO fasteners. The vinyl tubing is sticky enough to stay in the angle between the valance and ceiling fabric.
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Old 02-12-2005, 02:29 PM   #22
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Post Paging Mr. Ohm.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by j54mark
High wattage 12 volt lights are a problem due to the high amperage necessary to carry the wattage (watts = volts X amps). Two 100 watt 12 volt lamps would require a dedicated 20 amp circuit.

Mark
Ah!
Ohm's Law works even after all these years.
I learned it in high school and pondered it in college when I was obtaining my B.S. in Electronics Engineering!
Works everytime!
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Old 02-12-2005, 03:11 PM   #23
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I am looking to replace my light fixtures in my Minuet.
If there is a good source of LED lighting I would like to know where I could get one to try it out.
Thanks for the link, Mark. I went to Swego and got some ideas for an experiment with Xenon bulbs!
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Old 02-12-2005, 03:15 PM   #24
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Has anyone replaced their old lights with florescent lighting? I see that they are available and I would like to replace the old dim lights in my 1978 Argosy. Any suggestions?
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Old 02-12-2005, 06:25 PM   #25
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Has anyone replaced their old lights with florescent lighting? I see that they are available and I would like to replace the old dim lights in my 1978 Argosy. Any suggestions?
Sure. See the thread at http://www.airforums.com/forum...ad.php?t=10541

Mark
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Old 02-12-2005, 09:08 PM   #26
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That just takes me back to this thread. Will any florescent fixture work in place of what's in the coach now.
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Old 02-12-2005, 09:27 PM   #27
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That just takes me back to this thread. Will any florescent fixture work in place of what's in the coach now.
Odd, I just tried it again from within the post and it opened up a new window with the old thread on fluorescent lighting.

But to answer your question, no. You will have to use 12 volt fluorescent lighting. They can be wired in as a direct replacements for your 12 volt incadescents. Sunray and Thinline are both popular brands.

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Old 02-12-2005, 10:05 PM   #28
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Thanks. I tried it again and got back to the original thread. I looked at the sites listed, and they may be able to help me. Sorry for all the trouble. Judy
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