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Old 08-20-2006, 07:49 PM   #1
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Exclamation Cross wired 64 trade wind advice, please!

today i installed my 12V fantastic fan in our 64 tradewind's rear vent. when i went to hook it up, something was wrong, so i checked the voltage, and it read 120. i pulled out the light just ahead of it, and checked that voltage, and IT read 120 as well. our unit came with AC from the factory, and that is just ahead of the light, so the trailer was wired with a 120 run to the AC.

in the rear of the unit, i have a circuit breaker, with a 30A breaker that turns the trailer off, and (2) 20A breakers for the interior stuff. one of those breakers trips the AC, the other one trips these 2 leads that i think should be 12V. i doubt very seriously they would wire multiple 120 leads to the roof back then, especially at these locations. the 2 leads are not connected at the top of the trailer, even though the leads are only 12 inches apart.

i am 99.9% sure these 2 leads, or at least ONE of them should be 12V. i assume that coming off the circuit, there's a lead for the transformer, and i guess it would be possible for someone to have wired these runs either to the wrong side of the transformer, or directly to the circuit breaker? i'm no electrician, but does this sound like a plausable theory?

has anyone else ever experienced anything like this? any advice would be appreciated! i plan on looking a little closer tomorrow at lunch. guess i'll start at the rear, if i can get in there!

thanks again all!

jp
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Old 08-20-2006, 10:14 PM   #2
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If you have a manual check the wiring diagram. they can be tricky to read for a novice but it should tell you how many circuits you have. I know in most '60's trailers I've seen, there is only 2 110V circuits plus a main. One is for your AC and the other for appliances and outlets.
I installed a FF in my '67 and tapped into the first wire I found and it turned out to be 110V. I fished further down the curbside and found the 12V circuit and then every thing was Fantastic!
Not sure what the issue is with your ceiling light.
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Old 08-20-2006, 10:38 PM   #3
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My 63 has 120 VAC as well as 12 VDC running to the overhead lights. The rear fan and the kitchen fan have switches so they can run on city power or 12 volts. You should find wiring for both types of current in the ceiling.
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Old 08-21-2006, 06:47 AM   #4
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would they run a single 110 lead to the rear vent opening with NO 12V, though? it's got a dedicated lead that goes to the AC just ahead of it. also, i fished around the ceiling light and found no other wire leads, so at the very least, that one has to be cross-wired somewhere. i HATE tracking down electrical bugs! if i get a chance this afternoon, i'll take a look at the rear circuit breaker and see if it's a main run, wired wrong. i HOPE so, as that would be a relatively simple fix. if it's in the wall, though, i think i'm hosed!

jp
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Old 08-21-2006, 08:34 AM   #5
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Quote:
i think i'm hosed!
any chance you can drop the center ceiling sheet and expose all the wiring?

john
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Old 08-21-2006, 09:55 AM   #6
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Your 64 may be an early one, and there may still be some residual 120 volt wiring from the 1963 models that were not deleted.
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Old 08-21-2006, 12:23 PM   #7
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I think the lete 50's and early 60's trailers only had 120v run up to the vents unless they had more advanced packages like the International.

On my International Ambassador, I have 120vac and 12vdc wired to each 14" vent with a swtich to go from city to batt to power the vent.

I know on Colin's '59 Ambassador, which is also an International he only has both 120vac and 12dc on his rear 14" vent. His front 14" vent only has 120vac.

It probably is the case that you only have 120ac available.
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Old 08-21-2006, 02:44 PM   #8
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My '59 TradeWind only had 110 volt to the center vent for the fan and no 12 volt to any of the three vents. I sliced in a 12 volt line from the small ceiling light that was 12 volt to go to the hanging booth light.

Brad
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Old 08-21-2006, 02:52 PM   #9
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why would i have 120 run to the 12v light, then? that's the strange part. you would think that at least that one run would be 12V? there's no 12V lines there at all, though there is a 12V fixture.

man, i love these old things! ha! something tells me when the little one's back on the road, i'm going to redo this one from the frame up, too... i never learn. ha!

jp
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Old 08-21-2006, 05:59 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by A-Merry-Can
why would i have 120 run to the 12v light, then? that's the strange part. you would think that at least that one run would be 12V? there's no 12V lines there at all, though there is a 12V fixture.

man, i love these old things! ha! something tells me when the little one's back on the road, i'm going to redo this one from the frame up, too... i never learn. ha!

jp
Our 63 has dual power (12v and 120v) to each and every light and vent in the coach.
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Old 08-21-2006, 09:26 PM   #11
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the saga continues....

... ok, things are becoming a LITTLE clearer... sorta.... i tested both leads again, the one in the rear vent, and the one behind the roof light. one read a varying read out of around 18 volts, the other read around 20... fluctuating slightly... something is DEFINITELY wierd. i thought they were 120V, but maybe i read my guage wrong. the fantastic fan does not work on either, BUT the dome light does.

here's my NEW hypothesis. i think maybe i have a faulty ground for a 120 volt outlet, switch or whatever, and that is causing the whole trailer to have a live ground every time the AC cycles (however many times a second that is), hence the fan is not working.

i tried the fan on a 12V car battery, and she ran really smoothly, so i know the fan's ok.

the 12V bulb did not blow on the lead behind it's hole. the one i mentioned earlier as being 12V.

i have NOT tried to plug in a 120V item to any of these leads yet. i could if that further supports my case.

so now, what to do? like i mentioned earlier, i'm NO electrician. how do i trace this down? i'm thinking i should pull all the outlets, and turn off the AC as a starter point. IF these outlets are grounded to the trailer, and the 12V is grounded to the trailer as well, wouldn't the AC cause the wierd problems i'm having getting a steady voltage readout?

next steps? what other tests could i do to verify this?

advice appreciated as always!

jp
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Old 08-21-2006, 10:05 PM   #12
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JP ~

Did your unit have the dual voltage fan in the ceiling vent? Seems to me some of those had a step down transformer that would take 18 VAC to 12 VDC and the fan would run on either source of power. The 12 volt coming from the battery while boondocking and the 18 volt was stepped down from the 110 volt while plugged in to shore power. Did/does your unit still have the Univolt or other changed out power supply? Some more research is in order here. This answer may cause more questions than it does answers. I'll look through my records and see if anything turns up on this two way fan and the power supplies to it.

Brad
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Old 08-22-2006, 01:16 PM   #13
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it didn't have a ceiling fan in it at all. i assumed that the lead left by the opening was a 12V for a future fan, and the leads that were plugged into the dome light were 12V as well, being 1156 auto bulbs. it's frustrating beyond belief! i HATE tracking down electrical bugs. it may have to wait a few weeks. got a few trips planned in the meantime!

if the AC were grounded to the shell somewhere, wouldn't it cause the voltage on the 12V leads to fluctuate?

jp
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Old 08-22-2006, 01:42 PM   #14
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If both electrical systems are grounded to the shell, I would imagine there to be problems. One of the two, I would expect it to be the 12 volt, could be grounded to the shell without issues. The 120 volt should be a separate and unique system to the 12 volt. Nothing in common. At least that's how I put in my 12 volt system.

Heck with it for now - go camping!!

Brad
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