Battery failure

[smithcreek]

Originally Posted by Bill M.

My guess is that if you put in AGM it will make it worse with the stock converter since you can not refill them.

That has not been my experience. Old converter works fine with AGM.

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by smithcreek

That has not been my experience. Old converter works fine with AGM.

My 2012 25' also worked fine when I replaced my OEM Interstates with the Interstate 12V AGM's...for the 2+ years I owned it without replacing my converter...what I learned this go around from the battery folks was they recommend the newer multi-stage converters, even with AGM's. In the long run, (I was told), a properly maintained "wet cell" can outlast a "sealed AGM" if the converter does not have the "float" mode? Anyway, interesting debate.

[rowiebowie]

Originally Posted by Al and Missy

There seems to be some confusion about charger stages. A single stage charger does not put out the same current all the time. It puts out a single voltage and the current is determined by the difference between the charger voltage and the battery voltage, unless it is limited to some maximum amount by the charger design. As the battery is charged its voltage comes up and the current goes down. These simple chargers have limits. If the voltage is high enough for a good charge in a short time, the ending current is too high. The battery reaches TVG, the temperature and voltage for gassing, and water in the cells is turned into hydrogen and oxygen gases. The water doesn’t boil, it is dissociated by the electric current.

A proper lead acid battery charger has at least three stages, bulk, absorption, and float. In the bulk mode a constant current is put into the battery until it reaches a target voltage. It then switches to absorption where it puts out a constant voltage until the current drops to a target level. Finally it switches to float where a lower voltage maintains the charge with a smaller current. These targets differ by battery type.

This all works well as long as the charger can sense the voltage of and current into the battery. House loads make this hard to do. Thus the modern chargers must rely on some “processing magic” to distnguish between current going into the batteries and current going to lights, fridge, etc.

Al

Then it sounds like shame on Airstream for putting multi-stage chargers in their motor homes at least 10 years before installing them in their travel trailers. I cannot fathom why they would do this to their customers.


.

[SuperTrouper]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

Ok, I think I got it...wet cell batteries dry out on their own without any help from the charger/converter 😂😳

...improper maintenance, bad charge profile, most common causes.

Our Classic was delivered with burnt dry batteries. When brought that to the dealers attention we were informed that they were not covered under the AS warrantee, Interstate replaced them. 14mos later when the new set failed they were not covered because it was determined they were dry because of being overcharged for extended periods,(during storage with the P-lax 7455 on).
My bad...I should have checked them twice a week.🤓

Got two Lifeline AGM's in 2007 when we swapped the P-Lax for an IOTA DLS 55a IQ4. SFSG👍


Bob
🇺🇸

X2! We did the same Iota DLS45IQ4, and Lifeline 6volts (220AH). 2 years in added blue sky solar (400 watt) and leave system on in storage. Going on 7 years on the lifelines! Only batt maintenance was cleaned the terminals up once and put protective goo on to keep oxidation down.

[Zil]

RowieBowie. Wasn't trying to promote any particular charger. There was some discussion about three and four stage charging. I just wanted to outline how mine works. It also has a voltage sensing wire directly to the battery bank and a temperature sensor to the battery.
I lived in Corpus a bit about 1974. Just after the new bridge was built out to Padre Island. There was a fun little pool room bar in Flour Bluff. Many wild times there.

[Al and Missy]

I killed one battery with 6 weeks of continuous use, either charging from the vehicle or shore power. Parallax will be getting replaced soon. I replaced the one in my 25 with a PD9260, worked great for 2 years.

Al

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by rowiebowie

Then it sounds like shame on Airstream for putting multi-stage chargers in their motor homes at least 10 years before installing them in their travel trailers. I cannot fathom why they would do this to their customers.


.

Hi

That's because they *were* putting multi-stage converters in the trailers for at least the last ten years ....

Theere are two gotcha's with any multi-stage:

1) How reliable it is = does it break / fail

2) How does it trigger going in and out of float mode ( at what current level / amount of time)

There is a lot of variation in performance among various designs. If your trailer has enough "idle current" to keep things above a current threshold ... you may never see it go into float.

Bob

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

That's because they *were* putting multi-stage converters in the trailers for at least the last ten years ....

Theere are two gotcha's with any multi-stage:

1) How reliable it is = does it break / fail

2) How does it trigger going in and out of float mode ( at what current level / amount of time)

There is a lot of variation in performance among various designs. If your trailer has enough "idle current" to keep things above a current threshold ... you may never see it go into float.

Bob

Uncle Bob- you seem to doubt the technology including going into "float mode" in these new converter/chargers...most folks I talk with or read about on this Forum, seem pretty happy with making the switch to the newer 4 stage converters. Have you looked at the websites on Parallel Dynamics or Boondocker and read how their systems work? I know you mentioned you had a "new" one of some kind fail in a couple weeks? Understand being skeptical; but it is likely rare to see that. You could say the same sort of thing happens with tires (think GYM's) and brakes from time to time...note the thread running now with brake issues on new 30' AS's. just saying that for me and several folks I know, making the switch to the new multi-stage converters and also upgrading my batteries to 6V has worked out excellent.

[rmkrum]

What he said. My 2007 has the same old crap converter and it has eaten yet another set of batteries for the last time. New one going in this year...and it is 4-stage.

Anyone need a boat anchor?

[GCinSC2]

Originally Posted by rmkrum

Anyone need a boat anchor?

Pass.

I’d have to buy a boat and that ain’t happening.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

Uncle Bob- you seem to doubt the technology including going into "float mode" in these new converter/chargers...most folks I talk with or read about on this Forum, seem pretty happy with making the switch to the newer 4 stage converters. Have you looked at the websites on Parallel Dynamics or Boondocker and read how their systems work? I know you mentioned you had a "new" one of some kind fail in a couple weeks? Understand being skeptical; but it is likely rare to see that. You could say the same sort of thing happens with tires (think GYM's) and brakes from time to time...note the thread running now with brake issues on new 30' AS's. just saying that for me and several folks I know, making the switch to the new multi-stage converters and also upgrading my batteries to 6V has worked out excellent.

Hi

You missed the point. The issue is that the stock AS converters (that have been mulit-stage for a long time) aren't as good as they might be at dropping down to float. There are indeed other brands out there that have the same sort of issues. What you buy and who you buy it from *does* matter.

Simply going out and grabbing anything with a "multistage" label on it ... you can easily wind up with the same thing you had before. Since some of the stuff out there boosts to 18V, it's also possible to get something that's a whole lot worse than what you had before.

All that said, we blame a lot of things on converters that (assuming they have not broken) simply are not their fault. By constantly claiming they are the issue every single time, we divert attention from the other things that probably *were* the cause of the failure.

For most, replacing a whole bunch of stuff is a wakeup. We pay more attention to a bunch of things as a result ....That's just as true with a blown tire as a battery problem. We are more careful in the future and less bad stuff happens. That makes serial analysis of this stuff a bit suspect.

Bob

[farafield]

Great conversation here.

SO, I am technically challenged, disinclined to do routine maintenance mostly as a result of not knowing/understanding "all this stuff", but definitely trying.(I am about to watch a YouTube video on how to check the water levels in my battery).

SO, in my 2018 Sport 16', do you recommend changing the converter to the Iota DLS45IQW4 and getting a Lifeline 6v 220 AH AGM battery so that I have one less thing to maintain?

Did you put the Iota in by yourself or hire someone to do it? If so, who?

p.s. Why can't Airstream (or the dealer) provide a comprehensive list of what is on or on my TT with manufacturer name, item name and model #. The window sticker is vague but that would be a perfect place. (Nowhere does it say how many watts my solar panel is!)

p.p.s. Also, why can't AS include an exterior diagram of my TT with labelled parts so I know what all those louvered doors are, whether I have a range exhaust, etc.

p.p.p.s. And if Dometic is going to be the manufacturer of all of these OEM's, make the product pamphlets the same size so that they can be made into a booklet that is easy to reference. What a pain in the neck to be thumbing through all these loose booklets trying to find an answer or even figure out what the heck I have.

[rant over...thanks for listening...hope you're listening Airstream Inc.]

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

You missed the point. The issue is that the stock AS converters (that have been mulit-stage for a long time) aren't as good as they might be at dropping down to float. There are indeed other brands out there that have the same sort of issues. What you buy and who you buy it from *does* matter.

Simply going out and grabbing anything with a "multistage" label on it ... you can easily wind up with the same thing you had before. Since some of the stuff out there boosts to 18V, it's also possible to get something that's a whole lot worse than what you had before.

All that said, we blame a lot of things on converters that (assuming they have not broken) simply are not their fault. By constantly claiming they are the issue every single time, we divert attention from the other things that probably *were* the cause of the failure.

For most, replacing a whole bunch of stuff is a wakeup. We pay more attention to a bunch of things as a result ....That's just as true with a blown tire as a battery problem. We are more careful in the future and less bad stuff happens. That makes serial analysis of this stuff a bit suspect.

Bob

What ever floats your boat, Bob! As you point out, not all converters nor tires are faulty...but the overwhelming posts I see here added to my own experiences over 15 years with 4 AS's, having gone thru batteries and tires too many times, tell me these pre-2017 AS converters roasted batteries if you don't watch them...also it tells me that many of the batteries are "toast" when a new customer took delivery....happened to me on my 2014 and again last year on my 2017...read on, Uncle Bob...I bet you can find several articles and posts on this... I did not "miss" your point....I was making my own point; pay me now or pay me later, is my point... your own experiences and beliefs are respected. But, it seems to me that sharing this data, over and over with folks reading here helps...could be wrong, I guess...

[Al and Missy]

If you go to 6V AGM, you will need two, connected in series.

I replaced the Parallax converter in my Safari with a Progressive Dynamics PD 9260 and was very pleased with it. I’m going to do the same mod to my Classic. I’m not familiar with the Iota but I will look at it before I pull the trigger on the 9260.

Al

[turk123]

Well, I've been down this road with my 2017 Signature. After sitting a month in my driveway, my batteries were acting up. Water boiled out to half on one battery. AS didn't care nor did the dealer. Interstate batteries did care and replaced the one and deemed the other as working.

My trailer had an AS single stage charger. It got replaced as soon as Randy could ship me a working 4 stage Progressive. AS replace the single stage in there new models (2017) to the 3 stage about a month later.

No, they did not include me.

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by farafield

Great conversation here.

SO, I am technically challenged, disinclined to do routine maintenance mostly as a result of not knowing/understanding "all this stuff", but definitely trying.(I am about to watch a YouTube video on how to check the water levels in my battery).

SO, in my 2018 Sport 16', do you recommend changing the converter to the Iota DLS45IQW4 and getting a Lifeline 6v 220 AH AGM battery so that I have one less thing to maintain?

Did you put the Iota in by yourself or hire someone to do it? If so, who?

p.s. Why can't Airstream (or the dealer) provide a comprehensive list of what is on or on my TT with manufacturer name, item name and model #. The window sticker is vague but that would be a perfect place. (Nowhere does it say how many watts my solar panel is!)

p.p.s. Also, why can't AS include an exterior diagram of my TT with labelled parts so I know what all those louvered doors are, whether I have a range exhaust, etc.

p.p.p.s. And if Dometic is going to be the manufacturer of all of these OEM's, make the product pamphlets the same size so that they can be made into a booklet that is easy to reference. What a pain in the neck to be thumbing through all these loose booklets trying to find an answer or even figure out what the heck I have.

[rant over...thanks for listening...hope you're listening Airstream Inc.]

Good question and likely lots of "opinion's" here... If your converter is working ok, and since it's an 2018 AS, it likely is at least the new 3 stage? I might call AS to verify...not familiar with the 16' models...but if it is a 3 stage, I would likely keep it along with existing battery if they are all working ok...just watch the water. Since you only have 1 battery, you would need to go to 2 as mentioned above, if you want to go to 6V. They also offer 12V AGM's if you want to stay with just 1 battery; I might also consider a Lithium with solar?

There likely are other folks with the 16' that can share their experience and recommendations here, but I would also talk with the service manager where you purchased to get their input. Good luck...it's fun when everything is working!

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

What ever floats your boat, Bob! As you point out, not all converters nor tires are faulty...but the overwhelming posts I see here added to my own experiences over 15 years with 4 AS's, having gone thru batteries and tires too many times, tell me these pre-2017 AS converters roasted batteries if you don't watch them...also it tells me that many of the batteries are "toast" when a new customer took delivery....happened to me on my 2014 and again last year on my 2017...read on, Uncle Bob...I bet you can find several articles and posts on this... I did not "miss" your point....I was making my own point; pay me now or pay me later, is my point... your own experiences and beliefs are respected. But, it seems to me that sharing this data, over and over with folks reading here helps...could be wrong, I guess...

Hi

Batteries being blown on a new trailer equates to the trailer converter / charger in what way? If the dealer plugs the trailer in while it's on the remote storage lot .... that's a really odd dealer. If they pull the batteries and put them on the shelf - who knows what they attach them to. If it's one of the automotive gizmos ... no surprise at all the batteries are dead. Also no surprise at all if they use one of those monsters to "top up" the trailer ....

As far as millions and millions of posts - we're in an echo chamber here. Everybody just repeats what they heard in the last thread. It is absolutely no surprise at all that the posts all sound alike ...

Bob

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

Good question and likely lots of "opinion's" here... If your converter is working ok, and since it's an 2018 AS, it likely is at least the new 3 stage? I might call AS to verify...not familiar with the 16' models...but if it is a 3 stage, I would likely keep it along with existing battery if they are all working ok...just watch the water. Since you only have 1 battery, you would need to go to 2 as mentioned above, if you want to go to 6V. They also offer 12V AGM's if you want to stay with just 1 battery; I might also consider a Lithium with solar?

There likely are other folks with the 16' that can share their experience and recommendations here, but I would also talk with the service manager where you purchased to get their input. Good luck...it's fun when everything is working!

Hi

The problem with the stock converters has relatively little to do with three stage or not. The issue is the way an IC is likely to be mounted in them. Run down the road long enough and it's going to break off the board ....

Bob

[ROBERT CROSS]

A supposition for all things Airstream...I've only had one brand converter ruin two sets of Interstate grp27's...OEM 🤓 No mention of 'stages'.
Parallax 7400 series 55a.

Bob
🇺🇸

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

. . .
As far as millions and millions of posts - we're in an echo chamber here. Everybody just repeats what they heard in the last thread. It is absolutely no surprise at all that the posts all sound alike ...

Bob

"Bad batteries" search results: https://www.google.com/search?q=bad+...com&gws_rd=ssl

Four thousand seven hundred and twenty of them!

. . . yet the OP [with one post total] has not replied in a week!

Originally Posted by NancyJane

. . .
How do i check the charging voltage?

. . . and still everyone keeps posting back and forth . . .