Affordable Approachable Lithium

[Milo1952]

Originally Posted by pteck

That's taking a very negative and single sided worse case scenario perspective on the issue.

Reality is not that. Not even close.

My GZ 1000 was $800. I expect easily over 2000 cycles from this with the way I use my trailer - which is not even close to full cycling in a given day. With 300Ah on tap combined with house battery and the GZ, I only use about 10-20% of the capacity on the GZ on any given day. My GZ will be 10 years old and technology will be well superseded by the time I replace it.

Let me frame this for you more:
$2k invested for ~300Ah battery inclusive of 400W solar. Able to do just about what many full lithium $10k++ systems can do (including more interesting uses). Nothing is going to touch the value you can get with this type of setup.

Tronadora answered it earlier in the thread too - http://www.airforums.com/forums/f37/...ml#post2265868

I
I am amazed that you can get 4x life cycles than GZ claims.
Really, 2000 cycles at 80%. You are dreaming. They claim 500 cycles, and that may be optimistic. I live in the real world, and sometimes reality sucks !

[CarterKraft]

So the problem (heat/slow) chargers are for charging from AC?

Why not use a standard programmable RV converter/charger to provide the 12v supply? There are MANY ways to get 120v to 12v at that current (25A) that have built in cooling etc. that are far more cost effective and with out thermal (safety) issues.

I think I even saw somewhere on the web at one point a Yeti being charged with a Victron Smart Solar controller but I can't find it now.

[pteck]

Originally Posted by Milo1952

I
I am amazed that you can get 4x life cycles than GZ claims.
Really, 2000 cycles at 80%. You are dreaming. They claim 500 cycles, and that may be optimistic. I live in the real world, and sometimes reality sucks !

Hi Milo. Thank you for the concern and perhaps this battery is not for you.

For everyone else, it would be worthwhile to dig a bit deeper and understand what's at play here.

These GZ Yeti's use common and widely adopted Li-ion NMC batteries. The very same type in Tesla's, your laptop, cordless drill, etc. Li-ion NMC batteries, like any other battery chemistry type including lead acids which most of us are familiar with here on the boards, have very elastic battery life based on cycles and the depth of discharge. Which means in the worse case-scenario for someone that is using the full battery, from 100% to 0% regularly, under very taxing demands, is probably going to get closer to that 500 cycles. For someone that runs it from 100% to 80% regularly, perhaps even occasionally down to 0%, they are going to experience far far far more than 500 cycles.

I trust these batteries enough that I've had a EV vehicle for the last 7 years, without any functional range degradation. I just bought my wife another EV yesterday, and I expect that one to equally go the distance and then some.

Goal Zero has to warranty for the worse case-scenario.

The reality is going to be better than that. Please don't take my word for it. Goal Zero says this themselves:

https://www.goalzero.com/blog/lithium-explained/

Otherwise, heavy use sees only a few hundred cycles in non-LFP lithium cells, which can scale up to a few thousand with much lighter cycling (depth of discharge)

[pteck]

Originally Posted by CarterKraft

So the problem (heat/slow) chargers are for charging from AC?

Why not use a standard programmable RV converter/charger to provide the 12v supply? There are MANY ways to get 120v to 12v at that current (25A) that have built in cooling etc. that are far more cost effective and with out thermal (safety) issues.

I think I even saw somewhere on the web at one point a Yeti being charged with a Victron Smart Solar controller but I can't find it now.

The flexibility of these GZ batteries affords different types of charging options. IMO, these's no need for this type of fast charging when integrated with solar as I've suggested. 5 amp charge rate is all that's really necessary as solar works much the same - constant and methodical charging through the day.

The house battery continues to need to be charged and shunting too much energy towards the GZ accessory bank may take away charge current from the house batteries.

The GZ limits the type of charging integration with aftermarket chargers. To do it at a really high rate involves stacking chargers or their own proprietary car charger. So using a external supply is not going to solve the issue. An issue again, that doesn't need a solution as it unnecessarily complicates usage IMO.

[The Naker]

Originally Posted by pteck

You hit the nail on the head. It would be a rare 120V device that the GZ could not support on its inverter.

There's many videos of the GZ inverter performing right up to it's 3000W rating for the full 30 seconds. The inverter will then shut down with a red light on the "on" switch.

I've confirmed with my own tests, running two residential hair dryers full bore close to it's max output. And even my RV A/C. To the full 30 seconds. It will run full to 1500W for as long as there is capacity. The inverter indeed will do what it's spec'd to do.

I've not seen it shutdown in the manner The Naker describes hence I believe there may be something else going on.

I finally got around to trying a few different draws on my GZ to determine if the GZ inverter is defective. My 4 slot toaster pulled 1800W and worked fine. Next I tried my 15amp circular saw which will trip my house breaker if their are any other draws on the same circuit. It was a little slower starting up on the GZ but worked fine.

I then went back to the Cuisinart microwave in my Airstream. The GZ was showing 16W before hitting start on the microwave. As soon as I press Start on the microwave it makes a small beep and does nothing. I carefully watched the GZ and it started to show 30W for a split second and then back to 16W. It didn't trip the GZ to disable the AC outlets (no red light). I think the issue is with the microwave. My guess is still that it wants a proper ground (although doesn't really make sense because it works on my Honda generator).

[pteck]

Originally Posted by The Naker

I finally got around to trying a few different draws on my GZ to determine if the GZ inverter is defective. My 4 slot toaster pulled 1800W and worked fine. Next I tried my 15amp circular saw which will trip my house breaker if their are any other draws on the same circuit. It was a little slower starting up on the GZ but worked fine.

I then went back to the Cuisinart microwave in my Airstream. The GZ was showing 16W before hitting start on the microwave. As soon as I press Start on the microwave it makes a small beep and does nothing. I carefully watched the GZ and it started to show 30W for a split second and then back to 16W. It didn't trip the GZ to disable the AC outlets (no red light). I think the issue is with the microwave. My guess is still that it wants a proper ground (although doesn't really make sense because it works on my Honda generator).

I've searched a bit on the internet and can't find an example where the inverter is overloaded in the fashion you describe. Actually, there's not much discussion about overloading it at all as it seems pretty capable. Perhaps the inrush current demanded by your particular microwave is just too much?

I'd encourage you to reach out toe Goal Zero. I've emailed them a couple questions and they seem to be very responsive.

[The Naker]

I've now got enough experience with my GZ system to offer my thoughts. I have fully embraced pteck's idea of using the GZ Yeti 1000 as a supplemental energy source. The portability is very important and I'll touch on why its worked for me below. Here are my observations and how I implemented the system in case it can help others.

AC Use: My initial goal for the Yeti was to power my AC loads when boondocking. Since I have a Classic 33, I can use it to power the projector, Bose soundbar, Bluray player and other misc. AC loads. This preserves my house batteries for 12v duty.

In the Airstream Classic 33, the closet is a perfect location for the Yeti. For charging, it is easy to run AC from a plug under the desk and DC from the fuse panel (I ran a 30 amp fused wire for the car charger). My solar panels will charge the Yeti via the DC/car charger and when connected to shore power the Yeti charges via DC and AC.

To get the power from the Yeti into the Airstream, I ran a 15amp AC cord to the exterior compartment where the shore power plugs into the camper. It happens to be right below the closet. That way, I can plug the Yeti into my shore power plug without having a cord run through a window or outside.

DC Use: This is a different spin on using the Yeti than pteck suggested but it was so easy to do I think its worth considering for a backup. A new idea that I implemented also allows me to use the Yeti for DC power if needed. Examples would be if I am boondocking for a night or two in below freezing weather and need the DC power for my night time heat (the house batteries don't last long in the Classic 33 with Czone electronics). I got the Yeti DC Max Power Cord and can connect it to the same 30 amp DC cord that I use to charge the Yeti. I disconnect my house batteries (via a breaker I installed at the batteries) and then the Max Power Cord backfeeds DC to the panel. It works perfectly and can run all of the DC loads (especially the heater).

Portability: I pull my Airstream Classic with a Sprinter van that has solar panels and a 1500 watt inverter hooked up to the drive system. One option I have for charging the GZ is to bring it in my van while I'm driving. Between the AC charger (plugged into inverter that is powered off of the engine) and the car charger (plugged into a 30 amp fused cigarette lighter plug) I can charge fairly quickly (it shows 195W).
Another option is to charge it at a campground washroom facility or other area where there may be an electrical outlet.
The portability opens up so many options for getting it charged.

Thanks again to pteck and others who have contributed to this thread.

Sean

ps - I never was able to get the Yeti to power my microwave

[pteck]

Originally Posted by The Naker

DC Use: This is a different spin on using the Yeti than pteck suggested but it was so easy to do I think its worth considering for a backup. A new idea that I implemented also allows me to use the Yeti for DC power if needed. Examples would be if I am boondocking for a night or two in below freezing weather and need the DC power for my night time heat (the house batteries don't last long in the Classic 33 with Czone electronics). I got the Yeti DC Max Power Cord and can connect it to the same 30 amp DC cord that I use to charge the Yeti. I disconnect my house batteries (via a breaker I installed at the batteries) and then the Max Power Cord backfeeds DC to the panel. It works perfectly and can run all of the DC loads (especially the heater).

This would be a pretty cool backup accessory to have to allow the GZ to run the 12V bus directly. While not taking a conversion hit by running it through the GZ inverter, Airstream converter, to the 12V bus.

I actually hadn't seen this accessory until now. Thanks for pointing it out.

Further speaks for all the great flexibility this setup allows.

Separately, I'm a part of a YMCA father/daughter tribe and we're looking to throw a night carnival party at a boon docking site without power. I'll have 3x 120V sources to offer, to power lights and carnival games with my Airstream: 1) House batteries with 120V inverter 2) Portable GZ 1000 Yeti 3) Honda eu2200i generator.

[The Naker]

Originally Posted by pteck

This would be a pretty cool backup accessory to have to allow the GZ to run the 12V bus directly. While not taking a conversion hit by running it through the GZ inverter, Airstream converter, to the 12V bus.

I actually hadn't seen this accessory until now. Thanks for pointing it out.

Further speaks for all the great flexibility this setup allows.

The other really cool spin on this is that you can backfeed to the DC 12V bus via your 12V charging cable. So if you already ran a decent (10-12AWG) wire for your cigarette charging, you can use the same wire to send the Yeti DC power back to the 12V bus and power the trailer DC. All I had to do was add a couple Anderson style plugs. Simple.

A correction: the cable is called a '12V Max Current Cable' part#98077

[gypsydad]

Any of you guys with the GZ conversions going to Alumalina or NC Balloon Festival in few weeks so we might see how you did these? Also, still looking for a "good deal or the best deal" on the 1000 or the 1400 Yeti if anyone can help. Amazon still does not have the 1000 and the 1400 is $1700; (is it worth the extra $$ for 1400?)

[The Naker]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

Any of you guys with the GZ conversions going to Alumalina or NC Balloon Festival in few weeks so we might see how you did these? Also, still looking for a "good deal or the best deal" on the 1000 or the 1400 Yeti if anyone can help. Amazon still does not have the 1000 and the 1400 is $1700; (is it worth the extra $$ for 1400?)

Unfortunately I won't be at either of those events.

I haven't seen any good deals on the Yeti. I gave up and paid full price for mine.

Have you seen this Kickstarter campaign (DELTA Battery Powered Generator)? I backed it for a 1300Wh and will be curious to see how it performs. The fast AC charging and strong DC output looks promising. Price is also very good.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...?ref=user_menu

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by The Naker

Unfortunately I won't be at either of those events.

I haven't seen any good deals on the Yeti. I gave up and paid full price for mine.

Have you seen this Kickstarter campaign (DELTA Battery Powered Generator)? I backed it for a 1300Wh and will be curious to see how it performs. The fast AC charging and strong DC output looks promising. Price is also very good.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...?ref=user_menu

Looks interesting...different levels of "investment"; not sure I understand the difference in costs; are they pledging a return plus one of their Delta 1300 batteries?

[Kanusport]

I like the idea of a solar generator. I was ready to purchase the inergy kodiak but it then got superseded to the inergy apex which was back ordered. Now that it’s out it’s not getting the best reviews. Things that appealed to me where the fast charging time, like 3-5 hours vs goal zero. The goal zero uses a better battery and appears to have a more powerful inverter but the charge times seem really long.

Instead of purchasing a solar generator I bought a 100 amp hour Lifepo4 renogy battery and a 200 watt solar suitcase. It’s been great and honestly I don’t need ac power when I’m camping. It’s a nice to have but not a necessity for me. I’m still keeping a lazy eye on the solar generators though.

The inergy apex can be had for around 1100-1200 bucks if you use a discount code.

[TayaraTravel]

Thanks for pointing this out. I may spring for one also.

Originally Posted by The Naker

...

Have you seen this Kickstarter campaign (DELTA Battery Powered Generator)? I backed it for a 1300Wh and will be curious to see how it performs. The fast AC charging and strong DC output looks promising. Price is also very good.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...?ref=user_menu

[CarterKraft]

Lifetime battery warranty is impressive if they're around to stand behind it.

[The Naker]

I found EcoFlow's funding page for their first project on Indigogo and read the comments. Looks like poor communication and many late deliveries. I've cancelled my backing and will stick with proven products like Goal Zero.

Has anyone tried the Goal Zero Yeti Fast Charge 25 Amp Power Supply?

[jayseejay]

I have the 25 amp fast charger. Works great, charges the 1000 in just a few hours. Only downside is size/storage - see picture.

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by CarterKraft

Lifetime battery warranty is impressive if they're around to stand behind it.

yea..but difficult to collect if they don't make it...true for any of these. I think the Yeti GZ seem to have a good following and getting better reviews all the time..just a bit pricy still.

[gypsydad]

Any of you folks with the GZ Yeti here at Alumalina?? Just checking...would be good to have a session/tour on your experiences...

[allenoliver]

Hello all! This topic is fascinating...thank you pteck!

I've got a '77 Excella 31' CB and I'm in the wiring phase of a shell off renovation.
I love the idea of using the GZ Yeti as a power source for the 120v side when I'm not plugged into shore power. I'm planning on having 2 AGM batteries for the DC side of things (USB plugs, LED puck lights, etc). I'm planning on having the Progressive Dynamics PD4045 as my main hub for both systems. I also plan on installing at least a couple solar panels on the roof to supplement with recharging both the AGM batteries and the Yeti.

My question is this...if you could design your own system from scratch, (with the intent of doing a good amount of boondocking and only using 120v power for charging laptops, running Instantpot, etc), what would be must-haves?

Should I install a transfer switch to between the Yeti and shore power?
Just trying to think out loud and get some wisdom.

Thanks in advance for your input!