Affordable Approachable Lithium

[TouringDan]

Originally Posted by Dave-n-Janet

Anyone thought of doing something like PTeck has done here on a 50Amp trailer?

I wouldn’t think it would make any difference if the trailer was 30 amp or 50 amp.

Dan

[TouringDan]

pteck

I agree that the Goal Zero makes a lot of sense if you want to add more battery capacity to your house batteries, particularly with the advantages of lithium, and the built in 1,500 watt inverter and charger. The portability is also a plus. If you want to camp without hookups this is the way to be successful and not run out of power.

I was ready to replace my 8 year old golf cart batteries in the rear of my 66 Tradewind so I bellied up to the bar and spent the money for two BB lithiums, a new Progressive Dynamics lithium converter and a Samlex 2,000 watt inverter. Total cost was about $2,800 and not really very technically complex. My power plant feeds my panel box, so all circuits are powered. I am totally happy with my 200 Ah lithium power plant in the back of my Tradewind.

Dan

[Dave-n-Janet]

Can't put a transfer switch on one leg to allow getting power to all the 120v outlets as the 120v outlets and Microwave are split across both legs of the 240v service.

[TouringDan]

Originally Posted by Dave-n-Janet

Can't put a transfer switch on one leg to allow getting power to all the 120v outlets as the 120v outlets and Microwave are split across both legs of the 240v service.

Could you put the outlets, that you want to power with the Goal Zero inverter, on the same 120 volt side of the 240v service?

Dan

[Dave-n-Janet]

Possibly, would require some investigation. At a minimum some rewiring of the load panel.

[pteck]

Originally Posted by TouringDan

pteck

I agree that the Goal Zero makes a lot of sense if you want to add more battery capacity to your house batteries, particularly with the advantages of lithium, and the built in 1,500 watt inverter and charger. The portability is also a plus. If you want to camp without hookups this is the way to be successful and not run out of power.

I was ready to replace my 8 year old golf cart batteries in the rear of my 66 Tradewind so I bellied up to the bar and spent the money for two BB lithiums, a new Progressive Dynamics lithium converter and a Samlex 2,000 watt inverter. Total cost was about $2,800 and not really very technically complex. My power plant feeds my panel box, so all circuits are powered. I am totally happy with my 200 Ah lithium power plant in the back of my Tradewind.

DanAttachment 342619

Nice inverter you have there. I have the same one.

Nothing against Battle Borns. They truly are nice batteries. As an engineer, the technicalities of installing them would be well within my abilities. As an architect and systems engineer that understands and makes trades towards optimizing capability, implementation cost, value, and more subtle things like complexity and environmental factors, that is not my preferred direction.

The more menial house loads are all low draw for which it's all about capacity. For that, lead acid in the form of 6V or AGMs would my preference. High draw loads (i.e. 120V devices) is where I would pay a premium for the high C-rate discharge vs capacity performance advantages of lithium. Hence the dual battery bank strategy I'm using. It's also good in that I can independently manage utilization. So my luxury uses don't encroach upon house reserves to say, run the furnace through the night.

While the focus here is on batteries and the dual bank strategy, I think it's still important to hammer home that batteries don't make power. Batteries are temporary reserves for when there is no power source. Without enough power input, one will never have enough battery and reserve capacity. Any investment in the system should go toward power generation first - solar. My day use pretty much never taxes my battery reserves as the sun is actively powering everything. I begin using reserves when the sun goes down.

If one wants a very high performance 300Ah system at a great value, this recipe would be pretty close to being it.

1) 400W solar ($700)
2) 2x 6V golf cart batts, 215Ah 80% usable ($210)
3) Goal Zero Yet 1000 with charging cable, 98Ah ($875)
4) Transfer switch ($75)

$2k invested, inclusive of solar, in my setup.

I'm not counting my Samlex 2000W inverter which I could honestly remove now.

[Tomzstream]

I've bought two GZ 3000 units at REI (both on sale, one at a 20% discount and the other 25%), and one 1000 (Costco 20% off) I sprung for the MPPT controller for the 1000 at GZ's main website, at 25% off.

I have 560 Watts of Solar that consists of two Grape Solar 180W panels and two 100W panels. I bought them all during recent Home Depot sales, at 20% off and including shipping. $430 for the first two, and $168 for the second pair, and a couple sets of Renogy MC4 connectors at $10 each. I also purchased one MC4 to Anderson Power Pole extension cable for $25 or so. Grand total, $650 or so. I mounted the two 180 watt panels to my existing Yakima rack attached to my tonneau cover, and the other two are free floating although I do have a second rack I can use on the top of my cab. So the total for the solar is about $1.16 per Watt. I see no reason why I shouldn't take the 30% tax credit on all of it, including the Yeti's as they will be a standalone Solar unit that I will use on my main abode come Hurricane season.

As I understand it, the batteries qualify for the tax credit if you can demonstrate that they are charged with Solar. My house generates a surplus of solar energy so it's a moot point, but yes, I use my additional panels to charge the Yeti's almost exclusively now. I keep one in the garage at all times that I can connect to my truck's panels.

[Dave-n-Janet]

Pteck,

Really a good idea you've come up with. I've got a 50 amp service but by swapping the converter circuit (on its own breaker) and the inverter circuit (including the pass through 120v outlets) I have on one leg all the 120v outlets, microwave and 13.5kBTU A/C (hmmm...don't think that will run on GZ1000). Also, for safety sake the hotwater heater winds up on other leg along with converter and 15kBTU A/C, so no mistakes when powering off the GZ.

One use case that makes spending money on this desirable is that now our bedroom plugin clock can work along with the bathroom night light while dry camping. Happy wife....

You mentioned the inverter seems to be fairly low power draw, so have you tried leaving the GZ inverter on all night? How much was battery drawn down?

Your idea to charge off the 12v bus is also great. Should be charging the GZ when the 6V batteries are also being charged through the solar controller or TV feed when driving.

So now I just have to be patient and wait for GZ 1000 to go on sale!
Dave

[pteck]

Originally Posted by Dave-n-Janet

Pteck,

Really a good idea you've come up with. I've got a 50 amp service but by swapping the converter circuit (on its own breaker) and the inverter circuit (including the pass through 120v outlets) I have on one leg all the 120v outlets, microwave and 13.5kBTU A/C (hmmm...don't think that will run on GZ1000). Also, for safety sake the hotwater heater winds up on other leg along with converter and 15kBTU A/C, so no mistakes when powering off the GZ.

One use case that makes spending money on this desirable is that now our bedroom plugin clock can work along with the bathroom night light while dry camping. Happy wife....

You mentioned the inverter seems to be fairly low power draw, so have you tried leaving the GZ inverter on all night? How much was battery drawn down?

Your idea to charge off the 12v bus is also great. Should be charging the GZ when the 6V batteries are also being charged through the solar controller or TV feed when driving.

So now I just have to be patient and wait for GZ 1000 to go on sale!
Dave

Originally Posted by Dave-n-Janet

You mentioned the inverter seems to be fairly low power draw, so have you tried leaving the GZ inverter on all night? How much was battery drawn down?

Your idea to charge off the 12v bus is also great. Should be charging the GZ when the 6V batteries are also being charged through the solar controller or TV feed when driving.

So now I just have to be patient and wait for GZ 1000 to go on sale!
Dave

Thanks Dave. It's a hobby for many of us and I greatly enjoy the modifying the AS and the community.

The readout display shows a runtime of over 75+ hours when idle with the inverter on. I can leave it on tonight to see what percent capacity remains by morning.

The A/C comment was just for kicks. I do have an easystart and I believe it would have just supported my last 13.5k Penguin on low. With my newest A/C upgrade (high power 15k Blizzard NXT), it would be over the 1500W running amps of the inverter. I carry a Honda eu2200i for extended A/C use anyways.

[pteck]

Originally Posted by Dave-n-Janet

You mentioned the inverter seems to be fairly low power draw, so have you tried leaving the GZ inverter on all night? How much was battery drawn down?

I gave it a try and left the inverter on at about late noon. Fully charged after the day as it normally is.

With it plugged into my trailer, it draws a bit more at 8 watts standby (5 watts without anything plugged in). 100% charged, with that draw, the calculated power remaining pegged out at 99.9hours as I was more patient for it to reach steady state.

In the morning, it showed 98% charged and still 99.9hours remaining.

So leaving the inverter on constantly is surely possible given its low standby draw. It'll easily charge to 100% within the first hour of solar generation.

Great question!

[Dave-n-Janet]

Nice! Thanks for running the test. Looks very doable to leave on all the time. I also have 400 watts rooftop solar. This is really an ingenious solution to have reasonable 'all the time' 120v power available.

[pteck]

Originally Posted by pteck

The A/C comment was just for kicks. I do have an easystart and I believe it would have just supported my last 13.5k Penguin on low. With my newest A/C upgrade (high power 15k Blizzard NXT), it would be over the 1500W running amps of the inverter. I carry a Honda eu2200i for extended A/C use anyways.

For kicks, I tried running the A/C anyways.


As I suspected, on low fan, it just exceeds the running watts of the GZ inverter by a hundred or so watts. I've seen videos of the GZ running right up to the 1500watts continuously. When over, all the way to its 3000W surge limit, it will allow things to run for about 30 seconds. Which it did with the A/C.

On a 13.5k BTU A/C with easystart, I highly suspect the the GZ will run the A/C. If only for something like 45 minutes.

Tangent, but good news is that my little Honda eu2200i powers the A/C on high indefinitely as there's gas (just upgraded the A/C), as I tried this weekend when out camping. That's the only reason I'll likely ever have to fire up the generator now.

The GZ also worked out outstandingly. Breakfast with an electric coffee pot, heating leftovers with microwave. GZ with still well over 90% capacity and charged up quick with solar. The wifee was pretty happy with the instant gratification. All without hookups.

[Dave-n-Janet]

In one of your earlier posts regarding GZ, you mentioned the BlueSea Systems ACR. Did you use the ACR along with the GZ 12v Car Charging Cable to only charge when charging voltage available? I missed that detail in this thread. My credit card is probably happy that the Car Charging cord is out of stock at the moment...makes it easier to wait for the GZ 1000 to go on sale again.

[Ron1934]

Any comments please ,Yeti vs Kodiac II, spec vs spec, sans any cost delta.I am in the market for either product standby source.
Thanks

[pteck]

Originally Posted by Dave-n-Janet

In one of your earlier posts regarding GZ, you mentioned the BlueSea Systems ACR. Did you use the ACR along with the GZ 12v Car Charging Cable to only charge when charging voltage available? I missed that detail in this thread. My credit card is probably happy that the Car Charging cord is out of stock at the moment...makes it easier to wait for the GZ 1000 to go on sale again.

I didn't utilize an external ACR as I discovered that the specific GZ 12V yeti charge cord has built in ACR function. Makes sense as its primary application is for a car, and one doesn't want to drain the starting battery after turning the car off.

The charge cable disconnects charging at ~12.8V.

As lithiums can charge much quicker, it is likely that this battery bank charges first. At least it seems that way against my lead acid house batteries. AGMs charge quickly too, but they still may likely charge secondly to a lithium pack. With a large enough solar setup at the end of the day, both will still be charged.

As mentioned, I have the GZ charger on the load output of my solar controller. Conveniently, I can setup a timer to enable the charging of my GZ to a later time of day as my preference it to have the house batts charge up first. I have it set to "turn on" charging of my GZ after 10AM.

[Dave-n-Janet]

Thanks for follow up. Wasn't clear that the car charger had ACR built in. Leaving shortly for 2 month trip, so will have to wait for fall to move forward on this, but looks like a very useful setup.

[allenoliver]

Thank you much for this info! I'm gearing up to rewire my '77 Excella and I'm trying to decide what systems I'd like to use to be able to boondocks, etc....but I'm not ready to drop $1k each on Lithium batteries. I love creative solutions like this!

[Tronadora]

A couple of clarifications...

The Goal Zero 12v car charger from the cigarette lighter is very limited as to how much amperage you can push through it. 5A to 10A max, a lot less than a cluster of 110V power packs you can use.

Also, you cannot run A/C from this. All GZ lithium models deliver 1500 continuous as a maximum. Even if you have a soft start on your A/C, I hear you really need 2000W or a little more to sustain. I can run my microwave directly from the GZ only a few seconds on high (1875W) before it shuts down and resets, but on Power level 7 I can run as long as I want provided the GZ is charged up enough.

When I use the four GZ 110V charger packs, each one delivers about 74W, or about 290W total. This is what my GZ 3000 receives when I'm plugged in and, since I have an Interstate, the engine alternator provides the same amount when I'm driving and have my inverter turned on. In a tow vehicle, you will not have that much juice running to it.

Yes, you can add direct solar panel feeds through their proprietary connections to add to this scenario.

So the GZ 3000 is a 280Wh battery that requires up to 10 hours of full beans to recharge (280W x 10 hours). Of course, the GZ 1000 will take 1/3 as long.

Because the Goal Zero is lithium-ion, and not the lithium-iron phosphate that the Battle Born batteries are... and because GZ dictates how fast you will charge it, when you are maxed out you are feeding it less than 1/2 the amperage that a BB battery can handle.

A true lithium (iron) battery likes to see 14.4V continuous and you can shove a lot more amperage into it, not affected by a three stage step-down charging profile like other battery technologies (bulk, absorb, float).

But I love having the GZ 3000 on board... it saves my bacon many times. I've used it many times in the past 16 months full-timing and I would do it again.

[OTRA15]

For everyone's information, Tronadora started a pioneering thread on the GZ 3000 in early 2018. Some of the information is a bit dated, but the thread is a good read, and has helpful links for various Goal Zero camping accessories, like small lights, etc.:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f240...-a-177828.html

Thanks once again for that thread . . . well done.

Peter

PS -- And thanks to pteck for this thread with good detailed information.

[pteck]

With all due respect to Tronadora and OTRA15 and the related threads, there is a difference here that warrants a new thread. The commonality is yes, we all are trying to use a Goal Zero unit. Much like how we all use airstreams. Yet it wouldn't be very helpful to clump every Airstream thread, with trailer and Class B's, into a single larger thread.

Use case and integration is different, and that is important. I'm using mine much less as a portable unit and more like an installed battery bank. With all the benefits of keeping it portable.

The Yeti 12V car charger wasn't available back then and that is key here. The relatively slow charge rate is unimportant because of how I'm tying this into the house solar charging. With a large 400W array on the roof, 5-10amps charging represents a solid and just about ideal charging rate from the adapter. Enough that it can just about fully charge a depleted GZ 1000 in a single day.

It absolutely will run a microwave effortlessly at 1103 watts load, and I have been doing just that the past couple days. It's important to turn off the converter and additional loads when doing so.

The A/C was for kicks and I was more interested to know exactly the running watts as the GZ has such a great load meter. To find out what my Honda eu2200i is dealing with on a newly installed A/C unit. Even for most that install a full battle born lithium bank, extended A/C use on batteries is not really realistic.