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KJRitchie · 05-17-2013, 10:31 PM

My main panel fuse trips whenever I have the electric water heater on with the AC running, microwave and TV on. It's the 30 amp fuse is tripping. We just discovered this tonight on Shakedown Trip 2. Is the AS system designed for this? Installed a new Progressive Dynamics5 4600 replacement last week. Did I do anything wrong in wiring the AC side up ?
2008 Classic 25fb

Kelvin

idroba · 05-17-2013, 10:39 PM

Nothing wrong, you just can't use everything like you are at once.

AC will take in the range of 15 to 16 amps.

Microwave will take about 12 to 14 amps.

Water heater will take about 8 to 12 amps.

TV will take less than 1 amp.

The PD converter/charger will take in the range of 1 to 8 amps, depending on the load on it.

Add it up, much more than 30 amps.

You will need to learn how to "shed" some of the load and not use everything at the same time. Many older Airstreams had a switch labeled AC on one side, Microwave on the other, so only one could be used at a time. You can run your water heater on propane to reduce that load, and so on.

KJRitchie · 05-18-2013, 05:44 AM

We had just pulled in to the campsite, tired and hungry. It was a warm and very humid day so the AC was turned on first. I turned on the water heater. Then Cindy started to warm up the prepared dinner in the MW. Turned on the TV. Just like home. The fuse didn't blow right away, it took several minutes each time for the fuse to trip. Cindy was heating up dinner and had the MW timer set for several minutes. She may have had the MW power at 50-60% to warm up the food.

For some reason my water heater will not start on gas. I had accidentally pulled the pressure relief valve and water came out and got the wiring wet I think because the gas part worked the last time we went out. The red light in the bathroom is not coming on. I'll drain the tank of hot water this morning and pull each connector off and dry it out to see if it will fire up.
Thanks

Kelvin

Silver Goose · 05-18-2013, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by idroba

Nothing wrong, you just can't use everything like you are at once. ... You will need to learn how to "shed" some of the load and not use everything at the same time. ...

Don't forget, the fridge draws a few amps also. Consider this power management the "roughing it" aspect of camping.

We typically do the same things you did and have found that the microwave is the thing that pushes the limit if the WH is on electric. Switching off the WH while using the microwave usually allows the others to operate while keeping the total load below 30a. I installed an electronic switch that automatically sheds the WH when the microwave turns on then switches it back on about 30 seconds after it senses the microwave has stopped. The wife is much happier since I did that.

If the connections on the water heater got wet, it is not unusual for it not to fire up in gas mode until things dry out. No need to drain the water heater, either give it some time to dry out, or clean and replug each connection one at a time then try switching it on again. Chances are good that simply running it on 110v will have warmed it up enough to drive out the moisture.

Silver Goose · 05-18-2013, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KJRitchie

... The red light in the bathroom is not coming on. ...

As I recall, the red light only comes on if the electronics detects a misfire after it has opened the gas valve and doesn't detect a flame. This has happened to me when there was air in the gas line. Once it was purged, the WH switched on normally. If the red light comes on, often retrying a few times resolves the issue. When I've opened the TPM valve and got things wet, the red light never came on, I assume the electronics never tried to open the gas valve.

mefly2 · 05-18-2013, 09:37 AM

Yes, you are in overload mode; prioritize your electrical needs 30amps is maxed out regardless of where the draw comes from ... generally you will need a reset at the pedestal as well.

lewster · 05-18-2013, 09:47 AM

If you want to run 'all the comforts of home' while using your Airstream, consider upgrading to 50 amp service. It's not as difficult as you might think.......

KJRitchie · 08-01-2013, 08:23 PM

Out this weekend and its 100F. Can't run the AC and the water heater on electricity without blowing the 30 amp fuse. it takes about half and hour but it pops the 30 amp breaker. This is ridiculous, I'm not running the microwave or TV this time. Is the fuse too sensitive or am I really pulling more than 30 amps? This fuse gets very warm to touch. Why isn't the water heater on a different circuit? Can I put the water heater on a separate circuit?

Getting fed up with my Airstream.

Kelvin

lewster · 08-01-2013, 08:36 PM

It's entirely possible that you have a weak circuit breaker, or that you are getting significantly less voltage into your trailer from the power post. I have seen voltages drop into the 105-108VAC range in RV parks during summer with peak loading from extensive A/C use.

A voltage drop like that will increase your amperage draw and probably is tripping your 30 amp breaker, unless it is weak. In any event, I would have the breaker replaced as a first step.

Next, have your voltage tested at the power post. After that, with your A/C running, have the 20 amp line feeding your A/C tested for amp draw. ANy of these tests can pinpoint a problem.

Keep the faith! It's probably not as bad as you think!

Silver Goose · 08-01-2013, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KJRitchie

Out this weekend and its 100F. Can't run the AC and the water heater on electricity without blowing the 30 amp fuse. it takes about half and hour but it pops the 30 amp breaker. ...

In addition to Lewster's suggestions, with the shore power disconnected, check that all of the wires to the circuit breakers are screwed down tight. Less than tight connections will add resistance and heat.

There is another variable. As temperatures rise, the demand on the electric service in the neighborhood goes up and the voltage drops. When the voltage drops, devices such as the A/C draw more current. Less than ample wiring in the campground compounds the felony as increased current demand heats the wire causing more resistance and even lower voltage. In the worst cases, this can spiral down and the voltage at the pedestal can drop low enough to cause damage to the compressor.

I'm currently in an RV park just up the road from you in Sherman. Early today my voltage monitor was reading 117V. This evening as the campground filled up and many of the permanents came home and turned on their TVs and other things and the temperature hovered at 100°, the voltage dropped to 114V. With only the A/C and converter running, my current demand went from 19A to 22A. If I switch on the electric water heater at this voltage, it drops to 110V and the current goes up to 32A. If left that way, the 30A breaker should eventually trip. I believe the wiring in the park is insufficient to maintain a 30A load at adequate voltage and possibly the electric company is having difficulty maintaining optimum voltage at the meter.

In comparison, I have a properly gauged 30A outlet in my trailer port at the house. It maintains 118-120V and the A/C + converter draws ~ 16A at 100°. At that level I could expect to add the water heater and still be below 30A, but add the microwave on top of that, and things will get dark in short order. 50A service generally resolves the issue of not being able to run everything we want simultaneously, but even then, if the campground's service is not up to spec, their voltage could drop below an acceptable level.

An inexpensive plugin volt meter is a good way to keep an eye on what your landlord is providing to you. If it gets too low and they can't remedy the problem, it's time to roll up the hose and go down the road to a place that can offer adequate power.

richinny · 08-01-2013, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KJRitchie

Out this weekend and its 100F. Can't run the AC and the water heater on electricity without blowing the 30 amp fuse. it takes about half and hour but it pops the 30 amp breaker. This is ridiculous, I'm not running the microwave or TV this time. Is the fuse too sensitive or am I really pulling more than 30 amps? This fuse gets very warm to touch. Why isn't the water heater on a different circuit? Can I put the water heater on a separate circuit?

Getting fed up with my Airstream.

Kelvin

i've read here that there have been issues with high demand breakers giving off a combined heat that is high enough to cause a breaker to trip. if this is the case see if you can move a low load line next to the main breaker.

jasperkins · 08-01-2013, 10:02 PM

My Recommendation is to goto Camping World and buy the external Surge Guard 30amp Surge Protector. It tells you how many amps you are drawing, and gives you a peace of mind on shore power.

I had the same issue when plugged in until I realized what was using all my electric. The darn water heater on electric was killing me. Then having the radio / subwoofer, fridge and AC- not good.

Now if I need to run the AC and a 2nd device (microwave / coffee maker), I use the water heater on GAS!!! Same goes for Fridge- GAS!! Or I don't take the chance.

cwf · 08-01-2013, 10:04 PM

I am with Silver Goose explanation.

I check power at the park post. The voltage needs to be adequate....

After check then plug in, I go inside AS. All breakers (not fuses) turned OFF! I power up the MAIN then the bedroom then check voltage. There should be ZERO drop because in my AS there is only a small battery charger plugged in.

IF there is voltage drop, info park and try another site or move to another park.

I then turn on the converter circuit breaker (CB) Heck voltage.. No drop!!!!

Keep adding CBs,,, with your 30 amp service, there is ONLY one supply so any added load affects the whole system availability. Imagine having a garden hose with lots of Y's feeding other hoses. Every connected hose will see a pressure drop as you turn on other sprinklers!

On our 1999, we had EXACTLY the same issue you describe.

I fixed by upgrading to 50 AMP. Nuthin flickers now!!!! But I still check the power // voltage. I learned that lesson!

I run water heater on leg A / circuit with rear AC. MW is on power circuit / leg B with front AC.
Converter and bedroom on B
Bath , kitchen, dinette and outside AC outlets on A (GFCI)

With all "turning and burning" , my wife running hair dryer, curling iron and clothes iron, I am not seeing a drop below acceptable voltage in either leg.

For your situation I would fix WH to run in propane. If not lighting check 12v breakers to see if they protected you when water sprayed. You really need a portable VOM meter and knowledge to use.

Another "option"...get portable MW and run off short extension cord attached to the power pylon.

KJRitchie · 08-02-2013, 05:47 AM

Thanks for everyone's suggestions. The park I'm in is Waxahachie COE park on Lake Bardwell just outside of Ennis, TX. The park isn't full and we are the only ones in the loop. I have a Progressive Dynamics SSP30 surge protector on the post. Do you think it's contributing to a voltage drop?

What does it take to convert to 50 amp?

Kelvin

dkottum · 08-02-2013, 06:21 AM

The surge protector doesn't contribute to load and will allow voltage down to 104v, so increased current draw is possible.

You're simply asking too much of your 30 amp electrical system, possibly compounded by low campground voltage. Turn the water heater off when you don't need it, or use propane. Remember the hot water heater produces considerable heat inside the trailer which must be removed by the a/c. Minimize its use. Adapting to conditions is a necessary part of camping.

If you need to change to 50 amps you're headed down the bigger-is-better road; where does that end?

doug k

cwf · 08-02-2013, 07:11 AM

KJ

It costs about $500 to upgrade to 50AMP yourself... most of that cost is in the 2 connectors you need. There are other options such as hardwired into breaker box... The problem is in running the wiring...but it is doable.

BAB · 08-02-2013, 07:19 AM

Kelvin, I have had exactly the same issues with my trailer. I've decided to just live with it rather than go to the 50AMP route. While many of the campgrounds I've stayed in do have 50AMP service, I've found the issue has a lot to do with inadequate power supply outside. Case in point. I was in Maine last week and it was cool enough to need some heat in the early morning. Turned on the heat pump in my Dometic A/C. It would run for about 10 minutes, then shut down and give me the E7 code in my CCC. In looking at the meter that monitors my 110V input, I found the campground was only providing around 105V. Even with all other major electrical consumers off (except the fridge) the breaker would still pop. I have a 30AMP service for my trailer at home. Even with plenty of clean power I will sometimes pop a breaker if I run A/C with a major draw (like the microwave or HW heater). If I'm on my 2 Honda 2000's I can use A/C OR microwave -- not both. Now that I've figured all this out I'm OK with it. Would have liked to know all this beforehand, but it is what it is.

Silver Goose · 08-02-2013, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkottum

... If you need to change to 50 amps you're headed down the bigger-is-better road; where does that end? ... doug k

Some of us can remember when our home had 60A service protected by 4 screw-in Edison Glass fuses. Then Mom got a washing machine and a vacuum cleaner, then came the TV set and a window A/C and the 4 15A circuits were no longer adequate. The clothes dryer pushed it up to a 240V circuit and almost everything south of the meter was replaced. Then came the cheater plugs because we didn't have the 3-wire grounded outlets needed for our new 3-prong plugin gadgets. We call this evolution and progress. Now a typical home has at least 200A service and the meter spins along at top speed.

Our first trailers had a battery charger and maybe a 120V convenience outlet and a gas stove and fridge. A simple extension cord and a 15A outlet was all that was needed to be way uptown of our brethren roughing it in tents and Wally was leading our ancestors on caravans across continents! Then someone figured they could enhance the fridge with electric operation. Why not toss in a TV and an A/C, and don't hold back on the microwave and convection oven. If electric is good for the fridge, it's a snap to add it to the water heater. And I'll admit to carrying a vacuum and hair dryer... Life is good and history repeats itself. :-)

**DKB_SATX** · 08-02-2013, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silver Goose

Some of us can remember when our home had 60A service protected by 4 screw-in Edison Glass fuses. Then Mom got a washing machine and a vacuum cleaner, then came the TV set and a window A/C and the 4 15A circuits were no longer adequate. The clothes dryer pushed it up to a 240V circuit and almost everything south of the meter was replaced. Then came the cheater plugs because we didn't have the 3-wire grounded outlets needed for our new 3-prong plugin gadgets. We call this evolution and progress. Now a typical home has at least 200A service and the meter spins along at top speed.

Our first trailers had a battery charger and maybe a 120V convenience outlet and a gas stove and fridge. A simple extension cord and a 15A outlet was all that was needed to be way uptown of our brethren roughing it in tents and Wally was leading our ancestors on caravans across continents! Then someone figured they could enhance the fridge with electric operation. Why not toss in a TV and an A/C, and don't hold back on the microwave and convection oven. If electric is good for the fridge, it's a snap to add it to the water heater. And I'll admit to carrying a vacuum and hair dryer... Life is good and history repeats itself. :-)

Nostalgia is all well and good, but I'm not giving up the AC on my trailers until I can retreat to a summer place above 8000 feet every year.

Foiled Again · 08-02-2013, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KJRitchie

Thanks for everyone's suggestions. The park I'm in is Waxahachie COE park on Lake Bardwell just outside of Ennis, TX. The park isn't full and we are the only ones in the loop. I have a Progressive Dynamics SSP30 surge protector on the post. Do you think it's contributing to a voltage drop?

What does it take to convert to 50 amp?

Kelvin

Kelvin, I know you didn't ask this question - but use propane to heat your water. It heats my tank in 5 minutes - electric takes 15. I've fulltimed since 2005 and while the FURNACE is a "suck the tank dry" appliance, the water heater is remarkably frugal. A 30 LB tank every 3 months frugal for a full timer who leaves it on all the time - and that's doing some stovetop cooking too! In hot weather once your tank is hot the water will stay that way for hours until you drain it all out by using it. You're probably "saving" about 25 cents by using electric, and you don't have to leave the propane on unless you need to use hot water.

In the long run if you strain the compressor on your A/C by running it at low voltage - replacing it will cost a good bit more than you saved on the electricity.

Paula