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Old 08-10-2011, 01:56 PM   #15
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Neutral is bonded to earth ground at every power pole. That why the system works.

Those that mention neutral and ground being bonded at the point of entry in to the building are correct. That is NEC, and provided for in breaker boxes.


Were I SpaceEgg, would buy the converter from 30 to 20, and go camping. The 20 main breaker in the trailer will protect any overload in the trailer at the rated 20 amps.
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Old 08-10-2011, 02:38 PM   #16
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I had the same problem the other day, I posted in the classic moho forum. As Jeff stated it was a GFI sensitivity issue. I plugged into a non GFI receptacle and all was good. I checked every receptacle in the coach with my plug-in checker with the three lights and found no problems. I have plugged into a GFI circuit at home with no problem. I think some of the newer GFIs may just be a little too sensitive for all uses. Like others have mentioned I leave my tester plugged into a galley receptacle so when I plug into a park it is the first thing I see when I step into the coach. Just a little extra insurance.

Cheers, Dan
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Old 08-10-2011, 03:03 PM   #17
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But auto electric (or here, trailer electric) is different. The frame and skin is the common so shouldn't it be isolated from the 120 v. ground wire that comes from the pedestal?

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Old 08-10-2011, 03:32 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrawfordGene
But auto electric (or here, trailer electric) is different. The frame and skin is the common so shouldn't it be isolated from the 120 v. ground wire that comes from the pedestal?

Gene
If you have an ac 120 fault to shell in you trailer the skin would be hot if not grounded. So we need shell grounded

The 12v side is a function of lazy. They use the skin as the negative wire - at the cost of more corrosion to your trailer.

Ground and negative can be connected
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Old 08-10-2011, 03:35 PM   #19
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I may be one of the few but I do not use my shell as the negative wire in a 12 vdc system- I run the extra wire
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Old 08-10-2011, 03:49 PM   #20
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I run the extra wire
To where? To the battery negative wire?

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Old 08-10-2011, 04:02 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrawfordGene

To where? To the battery negative wire?

Gene
Yes. That way I'm not relying on my skin for electron drift.

Negative wire carries the electrons to the load / positive wire carries them back to the positive plate in the battery
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Old 08-11-2011, 10:18 AM   #22
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Many thanks for all the helpful info. You inspired me to chase the ghost in the machine. Here's what I found.

1. I do have a grounded electrical circuit, there is bare copper wire in the umbilical cord which eventually is grounded to the shell in the fusebox.

2. There is a red wire that comes out of the umbilical that is attached to nothing in the fusebox, and appears to need to attach to nothing. I have not found the other end of the red wire yet.

3. Attached to the same ground (as #1) is another bare copper wire that leads to (what looks to be) the original external shore power. It's an alien outlet type to me (roadside). Looks like PO bypassed it with newer fusebox but kept bare copper wire grounded to the shell. He disconnected the (black and white) hot line and neutral wires from original shorepower outlet, and they are sort of hanging in space. I wonder if this causes leakage to the trailer shell.

4. I can get to all the outlets and lights in the trailer, which I must table until the weekend when I have more time, but I cannot see a visible way to connect to one last outlet, which supplies external power via an outlet to the curbside (under the awning). It looks like the wiring is contained within the shell walls, and the outlet is weather beaten. I have a foreboding suspicion that I'll get everything hammered out with the fusebox, outlets, and lights, and then find I still have this funky outlet to deal with. At which point it seems my options will be...

a. take the shell off (not happening)

b. rewire the entire AC electrical system externally in the trailer (I'm thinking lines within industrial conduit, or something else protected and beautiful)

c. flip the hookups the bird and rock everything off DC

Thanks again for all the comments. You stoked my DIY fires.
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Old 08-11-2011, 10:22 AM   #23
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So those last pictures were impossible to decipher, so here's a little more info regarding the photos:

This is the original shorepower (I think?) inlet to trailer which connects to the little box below the fuse box, and then runs a bare copper wire into the fusebox to connect to the trailer shell. The black and white wires of hot line and neutral are wrapped harmlessly around the wire that eventually leads to the umbilical cord.

Also that stupid red wire that's just hanging out with his buddies. It seems to me poor form to leave dangling wires all over the place. Shame on you PO.
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Old 08-11-2011, 10:25 AM   #24
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more fusebox, and the weatherbeaten exterior outlet (curbside)

Do you like my weatherproofing method? It's very chic.
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Old 08-11-2011, 11:05 AM   #25
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So from the photos I see your shell ground on the same buss as your neutral white wire- this is why you trip the ground fault
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Old 08-11-2011, 11:07 AM   #26
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Your green shell ground should be attached ONLY to the ground conductor in your umbilical - not your insulated neutral buss
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Old 08-11-2011, 11:12 AM   #27
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The way it is now...

If you had a break in your ground wire in your umbilical...

And you were standing barefoot outside..

And you touched the shell which would be incorrectly tied to neutral...

The electrons could choose to vibrate from hot to neutral..

Or from hot to earth ground through your body.. And that is why the ground fault device is trying to protect your life..
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Old 08-11-2011, 11:15 AM   #28
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The funny thing is in your breaker box the neutral bus is isolated from the metal box on a plastic riser...for a reason... And then the green wire defeats this isolation by jumping straight to shell ground
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